Weather Magick

[manitou]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

Love of splendid clothes, fine jewels and material possessions can be a sidetrack.  So can judgment of those things...

 

 

LOL.  Now you're getting into the realm of the subtle.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Here's something interesting to think about, both Josh Allen, in this post:

 

On 2/20/2020 at 3:06 PM, Lord Josh Allen said:

I view invocation as calling a spirit to come forward without surrendering your own self-control. Its power inhabits you but its consciousness does it. Those who invoke tend to invite the spirit to enter their bodies but they have strict rules and limitations regarding the procedure. Only a "part" of the spirit is allowed to use your body as its temporary home. You retain full control over your physical body, thoughts, and behavior whereas with a full-blown possession, once it happens you have no control because the spirit overrides you completely. You aren't even aware of anything as the spirit has hijacked your entire state of being, this is why people speak in different voices and appear to go crazy. With possession, you get the spirits voice, personality, history and other baggage. With an invocation, you should never lose control of yourself. 

 

The downside to invocation is this: The practice is far more gentle than people think. Unless you are gifted and naturally attuned, most people agree that typical invocations don't accomplish much. It takes many workings to make a good difference whereas one experience of possession could be life-changing or life-destroying, depending on the outcome. Invocations are much safer but more drawn out. Thanks for the links, I'll check them out! 

 

and flowing hands, in this post:

 

3 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

I'm sorry to say this is your lack of real experience. Working with the mind very often involves mind conversations of ones own making. Working with spirits involves a physical experience which can lead to mental communication only after some years of physical presence  being possessed at certain levels by a spirit. This is why it is so important to go through the process laid out by thousands of years of experience and tradition in these matters. When an Immortal master comes to you and they are willing to teach you they will come physically only. As you grow in experience and practice so they will gradually communicate with you mentally. And you will know the difference between 'mind games', ie talking to yourself  and them saying something to you.

 

both advocate physical possession is a powerful and in the case of flowing hands, necessary part of training.  Gosh, what an amazing coincidence.  I wonder what other Dao Bums think about this.

 

ZYD

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

Love of splendid clothes, fine jewels and material possessions can be a sidetrack.  So can judgment of those things...

 

A sidetrack for the  monk , it seems

 

 

but not for the temple

 

[manitou]

59 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Here's something interesting to think about, both Josh Allen, in this post:

 

 

and flowing hands, in this post:

 

 

both advocate physical possession is a powerful and in the case of flowing hands, necessary part of training.  Gosh, what an amazing coincidence.  I wonder what other Dao Bums think about this.

 

ZYD

 

 

I would love to see this thread too.  I know of the sincerity, wisdom, and seriousness that flowing hands brings to this forum.  I would love to know, from the inside, how he happened to make contact the first time.  Same with Josh Allen.  Would you both be willing to go into detail on this?

[flowing hands]

2 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

I would love to see this thread too.  I know of the sincerity, wisdom, and seriousness that flowing hands brings to this forum.  I would love to know, from the inside, how he happened to make contact the first time.  Same with Josh Allen.  Would you both be willing to go into detail on this?

 

I have said many times on this site about how one goes about learning from an Immortal Master. One has to humble oneself, go on bended knees into a blessed temple of the Immortal you would like to learn from. You have to beg with all your heart for them to come to you to draw the Fa Fu, Fa Shui. You could be on your knees for hours and they never come. You could be on your knees every day for the next year and they never come. In my case I was in the Temple for twenty minutes and then my hand began to shake and then move violently and drew the first amulet. Another Chinese medium was in the Temple watching a 'Guai Lo' doing something that most people couldn't do and was amazed. The next amulet was drawn so powerfully the brush flew out of my hand and across the Temple floor. I then begged for the holy water, which I did, I was instructed by the medium how to take the amulets and water. I did not know the names of the Immortal masters only two of them by common names. But I was sincere, humble and that is what counted more than anything else. I then realised that the world was not just material and there was things in it that I really had never known and only heard of. I realised that Gods did really exist. There then is a framework once you have been accepted by the Immortal Master, and not long after I was part of a ceremony that Involved another medium in trance of the Monkey God who baptised myself and others into the faith. I was instructed by another very experienced medium as to what to do and to proceed forward. There are many mind games that people can play with themselves, there are many dirty spirits that can play with people who dabble in this without a real knowledge of what they are doing. It is of no use one doing a ceremony to invoke a spirit if you haven't got the power to do so or the ability to recognise what spirit may come to you. Spirits of the earth are extremely powerful and can easily destroy life. Immortals have unlimited power and when they possess someone they come at a minute fraction of their power otherwise they will literally fry up that person.

The Monkey God although is a Buddha was exclusively trained in Daoist arts and martial arts before he turned to Buddhism.

Edited February 28, 2020 by flowing hands
typo

[doc benway]

Edited because my words were harsh and unnecessary.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by steve

[doc benway]

...

Edited February 28, 2020 by steve

[doc benway]

....

Edited February 28, 2020 by steve

[flowing hands]

31 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Don't be sorry.

Your comments have no validity as you have no idea what my experience is and has been...

I appreciate that you are treading your path as you see fit and I leave you to it.

That's the least we can do for each other here as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

 I have some idea and indication by what you write. and what you have written in the past. For example

 

"I will have to simply disagree with this point.

Working with energy and spirits is no different than working with one's own mind.

There is nothing simple about mind purification or realizing universal wisdom, other than from a theoretical perspective."

 

There is a whole universe of difference.

 

Whether Lord Josh Allen is genuine or fake you have little concern, only that he is "fun". I share Walkers concerns. Walker and I have not had the best responses from each other in the past but I am in agreement with him here.

I really have no concern about what you follow or what you think you follow, I only have concern how Dao practices are being taken into disrepute by 'fun' guys like Josh Allen and basically giving people the completely wrong impression about what Dao is about. I say this from my knowledge of the DDJ and the teachings of the Immortal Masters. One might say I was too serious etc. 

If fun and connection is what you are interested in then its best to keep away from what is potentially a serious subject, don't you think? But we are talking about Dao practices and perspectives, not Bon Po Buddhism, not Osho, Fa lun Gong, Jehovah Witnesses,  etc. or fun cults involving money and sex, although I'm sure there are many a Dao sect that could come into this category!!! We are talking about whether the op is suitably trained to call himself a Daoist and do what he does and setting himslef up as an authority. We are considering whether perhaps he is suffering from mental illness, or whether he has got himself a dirty spirit in doing what he has and is now under the power of that spirit. This "fun" guy could be potentially dangerous and inadvertently doing some harm to others.

 

You certainly have given me the impression that you are not very enamored with me over the years, with your "fun" and barbed and cutting digs, but that perspective in judgement is limited by your experience imo. I have never done this to you.

 

[liminal_luke]

One argument raised against someone like Lord Josh Allen calling himself a Daoist is that people who don´t know anything will believe that he represents Daoism, take him as a spiritual teacher, and get messed up.  But is this really true?  Are otherwise prudent and serious spiritual seekers being lead down Josh´s bejeweled garden path?  @Walker , @flowing hands , think back to before you knew anything about Daoism: if you´d seen Lord Josh Allen´s videos, would you have become one of his Youtube fans and followed his version of Daoism?  I doubt it.  His style doesn´t resonate with you.  It doesn´t now and I don´t think it would have then.  It doesn´t resonate with me either.  I like Josh as a person, as far as I can tell, but am not drawn to him as a spiritual teacher.  Now perhaps some people are drawn to Josh as a spiritual teacher.  Those people would never -- not in a million years -- decide to follow the path you guys have followed.  The spiritual path one takes in life is a matter of deep karma and destiny: we´re not so easily pulled from our destiny because of watching the wrong Youtube video.  We can trust that people go where they need to go. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by liminal_luke

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, flowing hands said:

 I have some idea and indication by what you write. and what you have written in the past. For example

 

"I will have to simply disagree with this point.

Working with energy and spirits is no different than working with one's own mind.

There is nothing simple about mind purification or realizing universal wisdom, other than from a theoretical perspective."

 

There is a whole universe of difference.

 

Whether Lord Josh Allen is genuine or fake you have little concern, only that he is "fun". I share Walkers concerns. Walker and I have not had the best responses from each other in the past but I am in agreement with him here.

I really have no concern about what you follow or what you think you follow, I only have concern how Dao practices are being taken into disrepute by 'fun' guys like Josh Allen and basically giving people the completely wrong impression about what Dao is about. I say this from my knowledge of the DDJ and the teachings of the Immortal Masters. One might say I was too serious etc. 

If fun and connection is what you are interested in then its best to keep away from what is potentially a serious subject, don't you think? But we are talking about Dao practices and perspectives, not Bon Po Buddhism, not Osho, Fa lun Gong, Jehovah Witnesses,  etc. or fun cults involving money and sex, although I'm sure there are many a Dao sect that could come into this category!!! We are talking about whether the op is suitably trained to call himself a Daoist and do what he does and setting himslef up as an authority. We are considering whether perhaps he is suffering from mental illness, or whether he has got himself a dirty spirit in doing what he has and is now under the power of that spirit. This "fun" guy could be potentially dangerous and inadvertently doing some harm to others.

Ironically, I’ve felt this way about you... I don’t mean to be hurtful but it is what it is.

 

Quote

You certainly have given me the impression that you are not very enamored with me over the years, with your "fun" and barbed and cutting digs, but that perspective in judgement is limited by your experience imo. I have never done this to you.

 

I’m guilty as charged and have also felt some barbs from you. Perhaps my projection...

My apologies.

I appreciate you pointing this out.

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by steve

[manitou]

And I'm guessing the Dao can probably do okay on its own without guardians or defenders.

[manitou]

@flowing hands - thanks so much for your wonderful description.  I can only imagine how profound that experience was for you and those that witnessed it.  I'm probably talking about apples and oranges here, but at what point does it dissolve unto oneness?  Doesn't the presence of 'others', whether imagined, projected, or seen, have an inherent duality in it that must be transcended at some point?  We are like little ripples on the ocean, all thinking we're separate from each other.  Do you not dissolve into the entity as one would ultimately surrender to the unity of all life?

 

 

P.S.  Okay, this has gotten serious.  Just when I typed 'unity' in the last sentence, the lady on TV said 'unity' at the same moment.  The native Americans used to see it with what the crows were doing at any instant.  Our synchronicity more often involves electronics, lol.  But synchronicity is there just the same.

 

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by manitou

[flowing hands]

9 hours ago, steve said:

Ironically, I’ve felt this way about you... I don’t mean to be hurtful but it is what it is.

 

Ah..... but I'm not a fun guy like Josh, where Josh has fancy expensive cars and clothes etc., I spent years having nothing. I think our worlds are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

[flowing hands]

10 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

One argument raised against someone like Lord Josh Allen calling himself a Daoist is that people who don´t know anything will believe that he represents Daoism, take him as a spiritual teacher, and get messed up.  But is this really true?  Are otherwise prudent and serious spiritual seekers being lead down Josh´s bejeweled garden path?  @Walker , @flowing hands , think back to before you knew anything about Daoism: if you´d seen Lord Josh Allen´s videos, would you have become one of his Youtube fans and followed his version of Daoism?  I doubt it.  His style doesn´t resonate with you.  It doesn´t now and I don´t think it would have then.  It doesn´t resonate with me either.  I like Josh as a person, as far as I can tell, but am not drawn to him as a spiritual teacher.  Now perhaps some people are drawn to Josh as a spiritual teacher.  Those people would never -- not in a million years -- decide to follow the path you guys have followed.  The spiritual path one takes in life is a matter of deep karma and destiny: we´re not so easily pulled from our destiny because of watching the wrong Youtube video.  We can trust that people go where they need to go. 

 

Yes and no. If we look around the world at what goes on, millions of people are taken in by charlatans. Peter Popoff is one such charlatan and one would hope that people would be able to discern the false from the real. He's made millions out of his scams, so evidently they cannot! 

[doc benway]

10 hours ago, flowing hands said:

Ah..... but I'm not a fun guy like Josh, where Josh has fancy expensive cars and clothes etc., I spent years having nothing. I think our worlds are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

Credibility for me goes deeper than clothes, cars, and words; and the lack thereof.

Edited February 29, 2020 by steve

[doc benway]

9 hours ago, manitou said:

@flowing hands - thanks so much for your wonderful description.  I can only imagine how profound that experience was for you and those that witnessed it.  I'm probably talking about apples and oranges here, but at what point does it dissolve unto oneness?  Doesn't the presence of 'others', whether imagined, projected, or seen, have an inherent duality in it that must be transcended at some point?  We are like little ripples on the ocean, all thinking we're separate from each other.  Do you not dissolve into the entity as one would ultimately surrender to the unity of all life?

 

 

P.S.  Okay, this has gotten serious.  Just when I typed 'unity' in the last sentence, the lady on TV said 'unity' at the same moment.  The native Americans used to see it with what the crows were doing at any instant.  Our synchronicity more often involves electronics, lol.  But synchronicity is there just the same.

 

 

 

You are such a loving and calming presence here...

Thank you

[Walker]

16 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

think back to before you knew anything about Daoism: if you´d seen Lord Josh Allen´s videos, would you have become one of his Youtube fans and followed his version of Daoism?  I doubt it.    

 

Who knows. Would-haves-could-haves to me are not very important. My posts are here because it feels appropriate to me to have written what I have here written. I don't know what the resulting eventualities may be. Mostly I have done my best and thus far stand by my words. What unfolds will unfold. 

 

In any case, many people do get harmed by false teachers, and I have had a taste of such dangers myself, in addition to witnessing the sad stories of people who got taken in very deep. So yes, people really can and do get "messed up," all over the world, every day. Leaving aside all talk of young Josh and what he might be up to, if all the verbiage in this thread gives pause to just one person who is on the cusp of falling into a cult, then this thread has been of some use. 

[silent thunder]

If folks are drawn to the shiny, i have yet to witness the somber warnings of others dissuade them from exploring the shinies.

 

Yet it doesn't hurt to offer warnings when they are heartfelt and born of experience.  It only turns to harm when one begins 'enforcing' their warnings and using force and coercion of compliance.

 

The world is vast... and yet it's a tiny speck.

Every civilization, every ant, ever despot we have ever heard of, or not heard of, has lived out their path on this moist ball of dust.  And every particle of this planet home, arises from dao.

 

Every Islamic Imam, every Rabbi, every slum resident in Delhi, every Parisian in high dress, every dog turd arises from dao and returns to it... eventually. 

 

My thing is to not get too caught up in 'enforcing' one's ideas.  They are ideas after all, opinions based on experience, which is personal and not applicable to everyone's path.  We don't know what conditions are required for the awakening of another, even if we ourselves consider ourself to be awake.  The path we trod, is made by our trodding and may not have been trodden by another and even if trodden by another, do we ever walk the same path as another?

 

Indeed, even if following another step for step, do we ever take the same step as another?

Do we ever follow their Path?

 

The Path and the Pathmaker are one process.  And no two paths are identical.

There is not one way to source.

We all experience life, from the center of our awareness.

 

Whose Way is most correct?

Edited February 29, 2020 by silent thunder
corrected who's to whose and fixed a non-sensical sentence.

[doc benway]

4 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Who's is most correct?

 

Mine!

 

 

.... for me at least

 

... sometimes

 

[ilumairen]

Personally, I'm actually in agreement with what Walker presents, but according to my own nature I'm going to simplify this. 

 

Titles and uniforms carry meaning, and this is intentional in the way we (generalized) humans have structured our societies. Along with these meanings come both responsibilities for the bearer of the title, and certain expectations for those witnessing the use of title and/or uniform. 

 

It is natural for there to be a sense of there being deception/ manipulation when it is found titles were self-given, and not earned through whatever channels are deemed appropriate within the societal structure where the title has meaning. 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

52 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Personally, I'm actually in agreement with what Walker presents, but according to my own nature I'm going to simplify this. 

 

Titles and uniforms carry meaning, and this is intentional in the way we (generalized) humans have structured our societies. Along with these meanings come both responsibilities for the bearer of the title, and certain expectations for those witnessing the use of title and/or uniform. 

 

It is natural for there to be a sense of there being deception/ manipulation when it is found titles were self-given, and not earned through whatever channels are deemed appropriate within the societal structure where the title has meaning. 

 

 

What a grounded, rational position.  Be careful -- someone might take your "happy idiot" card away.

Edited February 29, 2020 by liminal_luke

[Nungali]

On 29/02/2020 at 7:29 AM, manitou said:

 

 

I would love to see this thread too.  I know of the sincerity, wisdom, and seriousness that flowing hands brings to this forum.  I would love to know, from the inside, how he happened to make contact the first time.  Same with Josh Allen.  Would you both be willing to go into detail on this?

 

I think Lord Josh may have   ' left the building  '  .

[Nungali]

Which is a shame as I had not finished taunting him 

 

Like this

 

Sorry Josh .... your outfits will  NEVER compete with these !

 

You wanna see REAL POWER  ...  in costume    ... hold on to your (polka dot ) socks ! 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

( Dont miss the big finale !   ^   )

 

Boy, did the costume department have fun on THAT movie !