Weather Magick

[Lord Josh Allen]

49 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Beliefs are crutches for babies.  Costumes are for amateurs.

 

All real high level spiritual paths have commonality at their heart, but no belief or faith is required.  Religions are divisive.  You are clueless about what is real.

 

Wanting to change the weather is a desire, those who can see the mystery are desireless.

 

Anyway, Lordy, those who know can see that you are unable to hear or see anything about what real or high level means, so go on, play your silly games.

 

Wizards aren't flat chested either.

 

Since it is clear that you are unwilling of unable to comprehend what I am talking about we are done now.  You stick to your silly faiths.

 

 

Beliefs are crutches but you believe "costumes" are for amateurs and that religion is inferior. Using your hollow logic you must be a baby with a crutch. Go figure. You talk about wanting, what about not wanting? Not wanting is also a desire. If you don't want to do something, you desire not to do it. I don't think you are thinking before you type. Very strange indeed. Yes, I am unwilling and unable to turn a blind eye to poor argumentation. 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Since Josh is interested in weather magic he might find this post of mine from many years ago interesting:

 

On 10/11/2011 at 11:21 AM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Is Agrippan style magic efficacious? Yes, if Agrippa's own account is to be believed, it produces things which are beyond what most, but who knows if all, Neo-magicians can do, In Book Three, Chapter XXIV, Agrippa writes:

 

Quote

I have seen, and known some [i.e. some person, see below] writing on virgin parchment the name and seal of some spirit in the hour of the Moon: which when afterward he gave to be devoured by a water-frog, and had muttered over some verse, the frog being let go into the water, rains, and shours [showers] presently followed. I saw also the same man inscribing the name of another Spirit with the seal thereof in the hour of Mars, which was given to a Crow, who being let go, after a verse muttered over, presently there followed from that corner of the heaven, whither he flew, lightnings, shakings, and horrible thunders, with thick clouds...' (This is from Peterson's Twilight Grotto, but can also be found in Tyson's regrettable version on p. 532)

 

Note the simplicity of the approach, no great ceremonies, no dressing up in fancy robes and waving painted sticks in the air. This chapter introduces one of the most important concepts of Classical magic, one that separates the masters from the apprentices. I leave it to those who are interested to look it up and make their own decision. Just about everyone who reads this chapter is going to think it nonsense and superstition, but it's not, it's one of the great keys. But any one is free to consider it a 'philosophical superstition' if they want. That would be their loss not mine.

 

This is the difference between what a great Adept, a man of sublime spiritual attainments can do, and beginners who need to dress up in robes and wave painted sticks in the air.  Most practitioners are somewhere in between, but especially these days are found closer to the bottom, much closer.

 

I hope that the example is helpful.

 

ZYD

[mrpasserby]

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

 

Oh dear.... the words plastic shaman come to mind......mind games being the operative words. Its comical, why look like that? Real shamans you wouldn't recognise them if you met them. They don't look like this.

flowing hands, I admire the clarity of your posts, and 'plastic shaman' was close to my first impression when I viewed one of the sorcerers Guild Youtube videos, that is until a couple of Guild members passed through the unseen world, and came over to visit me within my domain bubble, they were there to make sure (in very clear terms), that I would abide by the rules of the Guild. 

[Lord Josh Allen]

2 minutes ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Since Josh is interested in weather magic he might find this post of mine from many years ago interesting:

 

 

This is the difference between what a great Adept, a man of sublime spiritual attainments can do, and beginners who need to dress up in robes and wave painted sticks in the air.  Most practitioners are somewhere in between, but especially these days are found closer to the bottom, much closer.

 

I hope that the example is helpful.

 

ZYD

Thank you, yes it is interesting. We have entirely different perspectives on what qualifies as an adept. Let us not forget that magick is an art (The Arcane Arts) Most forms of art require tools, a painter needs canvas and paint, a sketcher needs pencils and paper, a photographer needs a camera, a musician needs an instrument, a sculptor needs clay and chisels. A magician needs tools in order to execute his artistic intention into the universe. When creating Fu talismans, many materials are used, brushes, ink, paper, stamps, etc. When exorcisms are being performed, peachwood swords are commonly used by the most skilled of sorcerors. Herbs, incense, candles, rice, water all assist in the spiritual process and intensify the end result. Most beginners would not be able to use the tools properly nor would they be able to generate results from them. Weather Magick is no different. Technical rituals have fallen out of favour in the modern-day because people have forgotten that magick is a strict discipline. It is supposed to be a commitment, not a hobby for the weekends. 

 

Taking a minimalistic approach and having monumental outcomes sounds idyllic and wonderful but it does not fit in accordance with how magick is really performed. Is it possible that one may make internal changes to themselves by using little to no tools? Yes indeed, I get that but this does not apply to more complicated practices that affect large scale areas. A Weather Magick example, Zhuge Liang made clear orders to Zhou Yu that he needed an outdoor altar platform to be created that it must be nine spans high, with three steps, surrounded by a guard of one hundred and twenty men bearing flags. It was two hundred and forty spans in circuit, square in shape, and of three tiers, each of three spans, in all nine spans high. Each tier had different magical items placed on it. The altar overall was highly decorated with flags, banners, scrolls all aligning to the correct direction with the appropriate colour. Kongming robed himself as a Taoist, took a bath of purification and used a ceremonial sword for the working. The ritual was a success and the wind direction changed. 

 

My point is. For rudimentary practices, a simplistic approach makes sense because it's more efficient. For multifaceted high-risk workings like the one I've just mentioned, the type that requires a large degree of preparation, timing, diet, bathing, fasting, petitioning, calculating of risk, etc. There is no way around this. With Weather Magick, the two primary concerns of the leading magician are success and safety. Success in generating the outcome and safety in executing that outcome. If a mistake is made it could prove fatal for the magician and the people who live nearby, nature can be deadly. Taking a simple approach sounds great until it goes wrong. I'd rather be strategic, calculated, orderly and in control of the situation. This minimizes the chance of disaster. I've been accused of "playing with the weather" on this forum but in reality, I plan and anticipate every possible outcome. I say this to keep people safe. 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

Any spiritual path that requires costumes is a joke.  Those costumes are for mid and low level shamans, for ones who need the help of spirits and for public displays.  The high level shamans don't need no steenking ceremonies, and they can often be seen in faded blue jeans and cowboy hats.

 

Ahhh, the wisdom of Starjumper !     Who hasnt realised that since 'Grock'   first saw shapes dancing in the campfire , Shamans  have ALWAYS  dressed up.

 

         

 

   

 

 

 

But all those Shamans throughout history  must have been  'mid to low level ones  ....  as none of them where  wearing  faded blue jeans and cowboy hats .   

 

   

 

 

I suppose he is just jealous , as when he tried to make a mask  ......   

 

 

 

 

 

                 

-  Maybe he just jealous as his own mask turned out so crappy

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

That is simply not true. Look at the book "Magical Tools and The Daoist Altar" From pages 10-31, it details the ritual garments, shoes, crowns, and regalia used for ceremonial magick and why they are essential to the practice. What are your sources? I'd like to read more about why some reject ritual clothing.

 

Maybe he cant afford it ?   Not enough  (or any )  students  willing to give him money or buy his books ?

 

 

5 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

 

Is it a modern act of rebellion against the old? I think it is usually the New Age followers who don't dedicate themselves fully to the practice, they enjoy cutting corners and insist on modernizing everything. Watering down the traditional methods is a major mistake as it leads to lesser results. I follow the old ways. I doubt Kongming ever wore a cowboy hat or jeans. 

 

His cultural bias is outstanding   ! 

[flowing hands]

5 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

You seem to be heavily biased towards believing that anyone who wears a traditional outfit is a "plastic shaman" I'd encourage you to spend a day on The Left-Hand Path forums, you would be surprised to see it is nothing like you think it is. Maybe you are only active in the Taoist community and you don't know much about other cultures. I myself am active in the wider Occult circles, Aztec, Mayan, Chaos, etc. In those groups, it is seen as being "proper" in the same way as it is proper and respectful to wear a tuxedo at certain events. It adds another layer of commitment and dedication to one's spiritual path and helps separate the mundane self from the magical self when practicing multifaceted ceremonies. I'd encourage you to read the words of Professor Johnson, he writes extensively about the importance of Taoist ritual attire. 

Actually it is what you have in your heart not the robe that you wear. That is what separates the fakes from the real

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

Why cowboy hats? 

 

Are they cowboys?

 

No ... they are not cowboys .

 

 

They are just  dressing up as cowboys    

 

 

 

4 hours ago, ilumairen said:

And how many "high level shamans" do you actually know?

 

I am level 9 ,  myself  ... on the International Shaman  Scale     
 

[flowing hands]

5 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

You seem to be heavily biased towards believing that anyone who wears a traditional outfit is a "plastic shaman" I'd encourage you to spend a day on The Left-Hand Path forums, you would be surprised to see it is nothing like you think it is. Maybe you are only active in the Taoist community and you don't know much about other cultures. I myself am active in the wider Occult circles, Aztec, Mayan, Chaos, etc. In those groups, it is seen as being "proper" in the same way as it is proper and respectful to wear a tuxedo at certain events. It adds another layer of commitment and dedication to one's spiritual path and helps separate the mundane self from the magical self when practicing multifaceted ceremonies. I'd encourage you to read the words of Professor Johnson, he writes extensively about the importance of Taoist ritual attire. 

 

Why would I want to read the words of Prof Johnson? Don't I have a real Divine master who teaches me what is the way? True Magic comes from true enlightenment and from the power given by Immortals. It is a power one can feel flowing through the body, it can be let out (fa) to do all sorts of things. One does not need any sort of dress to feel and to use this power.

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

 

 

I can't speak to the disgusting habits of new age fairies and losers.  If you think you can learn the real thing from books, go ahead.

 

 

What ? You have never seen or heard of a Shaman ,  in the past , ie. not  'New Age fairies and losers ' ,   never wore a costume or 'dressed up '  ? 

 

It seems your 'shamanic studies'  only have looked at the present  and in the very narrow field of 'modern internet ' . 

 

And armed with that 'knowledge '  you  boast, insult and shout down the things that in your ignorance  ..... or whatever your problem actually is  .... you do not know about or understand .

 

And you claim to be able to teach people !  ? 

 

 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

Beliefs are crutches for babies.  Costumes are for amateurs.

 

All real high level spiritual paths have commonality at their heart, but no belief or faith is required.  Religions are divisive.  You are clueless about what is real.

 

Wanting to change the weather is a desire, those who can see the mystery are desireless.

 

Anyway, Lordy, those who know can see that you are unable to hear or see anything about what real or high level means, so go on, play your silly games.

 

Wizards aren't flat chested either.

 

Since it is clear that you are unwilling of unable to comprehend what I am talking about we are done now.  You stick to your silly faiths.

 

 

 

yes,  and thats how he ends with anyone that   questions the crap he writes here .

 

 

[SirPalomides]

1 minute ago, Nungali said:

 

yes,  and thats how he ends with anyone that   questions the crap he writes here .

 

 

 

That's when the mask of "cool, grizzled mountain man" falls off and the face of a bitter, thin-skinned acid burnout alone in a cabin is revealed.

[Sramana]

You guys are a hoot!

 

https://www.shamanism.com/programs/upcoming-programs

[Sramana]

 

[Sramana]

The strange boom in shamanic healing

 

By Anna Hart5 August 2019

An emerging breed of Instagram-friendly mystic is now targeting men just like, well, you...

 

 

 

Eddy Elsey tried many routes to enlightenment before settling on shamanism. “It turns out there’s not enough yoga in the world to make me feel OK,” says the 28-year-old ex-actor, smiling at the 15 men (plus me) who have gathered for a “masculinity workshop” at Aho Studio, a “shamanic healing space” in Hackney Wick, East London. Elsey is the founder of streetspirituality.com and a podcast of the same name, aimed at bringing shamanism and spiritual practice to a new male audience through men’s groups and workshops. “It’s needed, because many men today feel shame and confusion around their masculinity and feel like there’s ‘something missing’ in their lives.”

This Saturday afternoon workshop is emblematic of a wider movement: interest in mysticism has been booming recently, especially among millennials. Last year, Americans alone spent more than £1.7 billion on “mystical services”, which span from psychic readings and aura photography to spells and energy healing. They are dropping money on “money-attracting” citrine geodes [1] and sharing the social posts of rock star shamans such as @shamandurek, who are gathering the same cult followings as the TV evangelists of yore. Startups are proving quick to capitalise on this shift. In March, Ross Clark, formerly of MGM’s Epix TV business, launched Sanctuary, an astrology app that offers on-demand consultations. Initially, he says, investors were wary, arguing the product was too “niche”. Thus far, it has raised £1.2 million of decidedly earthly venture capital. “A third of Americans read their daily horoscope at least once a month and over 40 per cent share it with friends,” says Clark. “This is not a ‘niche’ market in the slightest.”

[manitou]

10 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

 i don't understand, or maybe you misunderstood?  My comment was in reference to breasts on Josh in particular, and men in general.

 

 

OOPS!  My bad.  How embarrassing   

[manitou]

1 hour ago, Sramana said:

You guys are a hoot!

 

https://www.shamanism.com/programs/upcoming-programs

 

 

What a fabulous resource!  I've bookmarked that page and want to look more into the retreats.

[manitou]

1 hour ago, flowing hands said:

 

 True Magic comes from true enlightenment 

 

 

I'm finishing up Volume 6 of Baird T. Spalding's Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East.  If nobody's read it, it's an account of a group of professional and scientific folks to went to India for some years and lived among the masters of India and Tibet. The first three volumes are filled with what can only be called true magic, as figures from the past, Buddha, Jesus, and others - would appear as if they are in the flesh and spend time with them) At the end of the book there is a collection of Spalding's letters.  Spaulding was writing to someone from India. The one I was reading today was one that said the most curious thing:

 

"They have something over here that's the real thing.  They know the great Law!  The Law by which cause becomes effect and vice versa."

 

Don't know why that grabbed me.  But it kind of reminds me of a metaphysical meeting point that can probably be experienced by mages more than anyone else.  Like the two dynamics run into each other at some mysterious meeting point.  Any thoughts on that?

 

[Starjumper]

6 hours ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

Exactly. 

 

I see you synch well with the jealous little troll.

 

The statement in question by Mr. Smirk was something along the lines that a person had to dress up in some costume to really be on a spiritual path.  I said that spiritual paths don't use costumes and that costumes are used in religions.  I suppose some here may know the difference between a spiritual practice and a religion.  Then Mr. Flat Chest said something about 'faiths'.  Well in a real spiritual practice faith is rejected, and beliefs are rejected, one goes on internal experience and what they know from experience.  Faith and beliefs are aspects of religions, not spiritual paths.  I suppose some few here may know the difference between a spiritual practice and a religion.

 

Then, it's clear some infants get upset when they hear about levels.  Most people with an ounce of brains know instinctively that everything has levels. including shamanic paths.  It's true some prehistoric shamans used costumes, but those are to impress the constituents during ceremonies, which I mentioned.  

 

Anyway, concerning levels of shamanic practices, they are commonly categorized into higher, middle, and lower.

 

The higher ones consist of spiritual practices to cultivate power, which are shared among lineages of immortals.  They don't wear costumes

 

The middle ones are represented by adepts who are inner door disciples of powerful masters for some decades.  Like I said, they may wear costumes to impress the peons.

 

The lower level consists of smirking flat chested fops and other assorted fat asses who read some books and then go parading around in elaborate costumes and waving their arms around.

 

Guess which one I'm a member of.  YAHAhahahaha ... Go fuck yourselves.

 

Another thing that is known about shamanism, is that the low and medium level shamans hate it when a high level shaman comes to town; so ... let the crybaby tantrums continue.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

9 minutes ago, manitou said:

I'm finishing up Volume 6 of Baird T. Spalding's Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East.  If nobody's read it, it's an account of a group of professional and scientific folks to went to India for some years and lived among the masters of India and Tibet. The first three volumes are filled with what can only be called true magic, as figures from the past, Buddha, Jesus, and others - would appear as if they are in the flesh and spend time with them)

 

I read those books too, and liked them a lot.

[Lord Josh Allen]

17 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

I see you synch well with the jealous little troll.

 

The statement in question by Mr. Smirk was something along the lines that a person had to dress up in some costume to really be on a spiritual path.  I said that spiritual paths don't use costumes and that costumes are used in religions.  I suppose some here may know the difference between a spiritual practice and a religion.  Then Mr. Flat Chest said something about 'faiths'.  Well in a real spiritual practice faith is rejected, and beliefs are rejected, one goes on internal experience and what they know from experience.  Faith and beliefs are aspects of religions, not spiritual paths.  I suppose some few here may know the difference between a spiritual practice and a religion.

 

Then, it's clear some infants get upset when they hear about levels.  Most people with an ounce of brains know instinctively that everything has levels. including shamanic paths.  It's true some prehistoric shamans used costumes, but those are to impress the constituents during ceremonies, which I mentioned.  

 

Anyway, concerning levels of shamanic practices, they are commonly categorized into higher, middle, and lower.

 

The higher ones consist of spiritual practices to cultivate power, which are shared among lineages of immortals.  They don't wear costumes

 

The middle one are represented by adepts who are inner door disciples of powerful masters for some decades.  Like I said, they may wear costumes to impress the peons.

 

The lower level consists of smirking flat chested fops and other assorted fat asses who read some books and then go parading around in elaborate costumes and waving their arms around.

 

Guess which one I'm a member of.  YAHAhahahaha ... Go fuck yourselves.

 

Now let the crybaby tantrums continue.

 

 

Ooooh temper temper. 

[Lord Josh Allen]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Ahhh, the wisdom of Starjumper !     Who hasnt realised that since 'Grock'   first saw shapes dancing in the campfire , Shamans  have ALWAYS  dressed up.

 

         

 

   

 

 

 

But all those Shamans throughout history  must have been  'mid to low level ones  ....  as none of them where  wearing  faded blue jeans and cowboy hats .   

 

   

 

 

I suppose he is just jealous , as when he tried to make a mask  ......   

 

 

 

 

 

                 

-  Maybe he just jealous as his own mask turned out so crappy

I thought that was a joke at first, did he really make that mask? That is just precious. 

[Starjumper]

13 minutes ago, Lord Josh Allen said:

I thought that was a joke at first, did he really make that mask? That is just precious. 

 

Yes, it's the beginning of a Halloween mask, representing someone who came to see me once.

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

 

OOPS!  My bad.  How embarrassing   

 

Dot worry ... he is a guy that   doesnt like manboobs   AND  doesnt like men with flat chests .  

 

I guess concave chests are the only thing left for him ?

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

 

I see you synch well with the jealous little troll.

 

The statement in question by Mr. Smirk was something along the lines that a person had to dress up in some costume to really be on a spiritual path.  I said that spiritual paths don't use costumes and that costumes are used in religions.  I suppose some here may know the difference between a spiritual practice and a religion.  Then Mr. Flat Chest said something about 'faiths'.  Well in a real spiritual practice faith is rejected, and beliefs are rejected, one goes on internal experience and what they know from experience.  Faith and beliefs are aspects of religions, not spiritual paths.  I suppose some few here may know the difference between a spiritual practice and a religion.

 

Then, it's clear some infants get upset when they hear about levels.  Most people with an ounce of brains know instinctively that everything has levels. including shamanic paths.  It's true some prehistoric shamans used costumes, but those are to impress the constituents during ceremonies, which I mentioned.  

 

Anyway, concerning levels of shamanic practices, they are commonly categorized into higher, middle, and lower.

 

The higher ones consist of spiritual practices to cultivate power, which are shared among lineages of immortals.  They don't wear costumes

 

The middle ones are represented by adepts who are inner door disciples of powerful masters for some decades.  Like I said, they may wear costumes to impress the peons.

 

The lower level consists of smirking flat chested fops and other assorted fat asses who read some books and then go parading around in elaborate costumes and waving their arms around.

 

Guess which one I'm a member of.  YAHAhahahaha ... Go fuck yourselves.

 

Another thing that is known about shamanism, is that the low and medium level shamans hate it when a high level shaman comes to town; so ... let the crybaby tantrums continue.

 

 

 

 

They wear their costume to impress   others do they ?    I suppose it has nothing to do with creating a magical link with the forces or animals they are contacting ?   No, it cant be , as  Starjumper the shamanic expert says no . 

 

Doesnt dress in bear skin to  contact  bear spirit ... but to impress onlookers