What’s wrong with choosing Siddhis over materialism including sex?

[Earl Grey]

6 minutes ago, Heartbreak said:

Well I live in a first world material country where you have to earn a living in order to pay for sex date sex or any other types of sex.

 

No sex no need to work to impress women.

 

No time lost.

 

I'm responded again because this post was edited. 

 

This seems to be a hint of a very unhealthy attitude towards sex, women, and a judgmental attitude that is precisely the opposite of spirituality. 

 

Sure, I make fun of people who appear to claim they have internal power or skill--but those are technical criticisms and also to poke fun at those pretending to have power and hold arrogance. See my comments towards ChiDragon/ReturnDragon for example and his pretentions. Yet I am also not afraid to learn, to admit wrongdoing, and apologize when for example, the member Lord Josh Allen, actually is not pretending to claim power but to do inner work through his magical practices rather than manipulate the actual phenomena itself. I stood corrected and now appreciate his work for what it is instead of what I misunderstood it to be. 

 

Acceptance, authenticity, and openness are keys to part of spiritual maturity.

 

What if I told you that there are indeed some practices where sexuality is not only normal, but encouraged? No, I am not referring to astral sex cults and abuse, but to modern therapy. You can be a complete atheist and practice a kind of spirituality in your material life through art and the arts, creativity, a love for learning, and an openness to others rather than judgmental dismissiveness. 

 

What you are doing here is showing an unhealthy attitude towards others who are not adhering to your current paradigm, towards women, and towards sex, which is now reinforced through this: 

 

6 minutes ago, Heartbreak said:

Then wtf is anyone doing in this forum if they do not want to Ascend to become a higher dimensional race or even a God or Goddess?

 

If you are a Celestial God or Goddess living as part of a higher dimensional race you can have sex for infinity without any sacrifices

 

You can even have space time sex.

 

Acceptance, openness, understanding, humility, and patience are more helpful for you than anyone else. Forgiveness is most important too. 

[Heartbreak]

2 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

So you don't want material sex, just seek sex in the formless realms?

 

This is what you call spiritual materialism. Still a ploy of the ego to find something more or better.

 

I want powers and information about the Universe over sex.

 

Yes I am spiritually materialistic but not about sex.

 

I am a higher dimensional god wannabe not a human who desire to constantly eat and procreate like animals.

[ralis]

1 minute ago, Heartbreak said:

I am talking about Enlightened Gods and Goddesses on par with Buddha.

 

You think Shiva himself need to reincarnate again?

‘Don’t  believe me, but do some reading on your own. 

[ralis]

1 minute ago, Heartbreak said:

I want powers and information about the Universe over sex.

 

Yes I am spiritually materialistic but not about sex.

 

I am a higher dimensional god wannabe not a human who desire to constantly eat and procreate like animals.

What do you want from us?

[gendao]

1 hour ago, moment said:

The 1984 Rajneeshee bioterror attack was the food poisoning of 751 individuals in The Dalles, Oregon, through the deliberate contamination of salad bars at ten local restaurants with Salmonella. A group of prominent followers of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (later known as Osho) led by Ma Anand Sheela had hoped to incapacitate the voting population of the city so that their own candidates would win the 1984 Wasco County elections.The incident was the single largest bioterrorist attack in United States history.

 

I have been hearing off and on about the great Osho, etc. So,--- He was a truly evil SOB That was so good at mind control that he could get many people ( such as Ma Anand to fall on their swords for him), because of that the Feds here, could not put him in a dark hole, forever like he deserved. Instead, my government deported him and banned his return for life. He is a perfect example of being turned by the forces that he tried to control.  Truly a lesson here about the irresponsible use of powers..

Uh, Osho was the one who first alerted authorities that this mutinous, rogue "gang of fascists" may have carried out that food poisoning attack.  So not only was none of this under his direction - it was done independently of him, he was appalled by it, and he proactively acted to bring them to justice.  He wasn't deported for that.

 

The US Feds just wanted a highly-influential, non-Christian guru out of their control...OUT...so trumped up bogus charges to kick him to the curb (for arranging "greencard marriages," FFS!).

Quote

Osho was pressured to plead guilty to false charges of lying about his reasons for entering in the U.S. and arranging sham marriages. His lawyers told him that unless he pled guilty to these charges, the Government would keep him in jail indefinitely. Fearing for his health and life if kept in jail, Osho offered an “Alford” plea of guilty. An Alford plea in a US court is when someone offers as his plea: “I am innocent but I want to plead guilty to end the case.” This would be taken as a plea of innocence in an English court, but is taken as a guilty plea in an American court.

It is highly unlikely he arranged sham marriages. Dishonest sannyasins were perfectly capable of doing that without his help.

Basically, like the flimsy "nonconsensual" sex charges used to keep Julian Assange SILENCED and a global fugitive...

Edited February 14, 2020 by gendao

[Earl Grey]

5 minutes ago, Heartbreak said:

I am a poor guy and I am an ugly guy.

 

I need to work to make money to impress women all of whom look like shit without makeup.

 

What the fcuk for?

 

Do you identify with being an incel? If not, there may be hope for you. It is better you seek to improve yourself than to resort to victimhood.

 

I do not have stable income now. I am only 1.7m tall and mixed race. Yet, I have not had problems with women, sex, or relationships if I wanted them. I have had problems in my relationships, but that is another story for personal growth rather than just spirituality or needing to use transactional framework to have a relationship or sex, or superficial means of measuring worthiness like one's physical appearance. 

 

I do not have any shame in saying that I enjoy sex and pornography, but am also a cultivator and have my own spirituality. 

 

2 minutes ago, Heartbreak said:

I want powers and information about the Universe over sex.

 

Yes I am spiritually materialistic but not about sex.

 

I am a higher dimensional god wannabe not a human who desire to constantly eat and procreate like animals.

 

Your view of humanity speaks more to self-rejection and sounds a lot like Holden Caulfield if he had read Autobiography of a Yogi. 

 

Do you have a mentor or teacher whom you can talk with about these issues? Therapist, perhaps?

[moment]

2 minutes ago, Heartbreak said:

I want powers and information about the Universe over sex.

 

Yes I am spiritually materialistic but not about sex.

 

I am a higher dimensional god wannabe not a human who desire to constantly eat and procreate like animals.

 

Ok, I am going to sign off for a while.  But, you are in good hands here!  Relax a little and be well.  I will be interested in watching you grow!

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, moment said:

 

Ok, I am going to sign off for a while.  But, you are in good hands here!  Relax a little and be well.  I will be interested in watching you grow!

 

Wait for me; I too think I could could take a short break since we've left him with some good food for thought already.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Earl Grey

[ralis]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Do you identify with being an incel? If not, there may be hope for you. It is better you seek to improve yourself than to resort to victimhood.

 

I do not have stable income now. I am only 1.7m tall and mixed race. Yet, I have not had problems with women, sex, or relationships if I wanted them. I have had problems in my relationships, but that is another story for personal growth rather than just spirituality or needing to use transactional framework to have a relationship or sex, or superficial means of measuring worthiness like one's physical appearance. 

 

I do not have any shame in saying that I enjoy sex and pornography, but am also a cultivator and have my own spirituality. 

 

 

Your view of humanity speaks more to self-rejection and sounds a lot like Holden Caulfield if he had read Autobiography of a Yogi. 

 

Do you have a mentor or teacher whom you can talk with about these issues? Therapist, perhaps?

To each his own, but I always recommend deep body work such as Rolfing with talk therapy. 

[moment]

5 minutes ago, gendao said:

Uh, Osho was the one who first alerted authorities that this mutinous, rogue "gang of fascists" may have carried out that food poisoning attack.  So not only was none of this under his direction - it was done independently of him, he was appalled by it, and he proactively acted to bring them to justice.  He wasn't deported for that.

 

The US Feds just wanted a highly-influential, non-Christian guru out of their control...out...so trumped up bogus charges to kick him to the curb (arranging "greencard marriages," FFS!).

Basically, like the flimsy "nonconsensual" sex charges used to keep Julian Assange a global fugitive...

 

He alerted them because he saw the writing on the wall!  He was the ultimate dodger.

 

As usual you are coming into a thread with diversion without realizing that the most important thing going on here is heartbreaks need for a break-through.  Try to see whole pictures.  Again, I am signing off for a while.

Edited February 14, 2020 by moment

[Heartbreak]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Your view of humanity speaks more to self-rejection and sounds a lot like Holden Caulfield if he had read Autobiography of a Yogi. 

 

Do you have a mentor or teacher whom you can talk with about these issues? Therapist, perhaps?

I have done enough reading and watching to know about higher dimensional races humans aliens gods goddesses Buddhas bodhisattvas archangels or otherwise.

 

I am just writing my thoughts down as a petition to the Universe to renunciate my every false view about this crappy material delusion illusion hologram which I am living in.

 

Like attract like dislike attract dislike.

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, Heartbreak said:

I have done enough reading and watching to know about higher dimensional races humans aliens gods goddesses Buddhas bodhisattvas archangels or otherwise.

 

I am just writing my thoughts down as a petition to the Universe to renunciate my every false view about this crappy material delusion illusion hologram which I am living in.

 

Like attract like dislike attract dislike.

Read some more. Good night.

[ralis]

1 minute ago, Heartbreak said:

I have done enough reading and watching to know about higher dimensional races humans aliens gods goddesses Buddhas bodhisattvas archangels or otherwise.

 

I am just writing my thoughts down as a petition to the Universe to renunciate my every false view about this crappy material delusion illusion hologram which I am living in.

 

Like attract like dislike attract dislike.

If you are dealing with depression or other psychological issues then consult a medical professional such as a Clinical Psychologist first thing tomorrow. I am serious! Take care of yourself. 

[ralis]

Everyone goes through some sort of existential angst.

[Cleansox]

2 hours ago, Heartbreak said:

 

You think Shiva himself need to reincarnate again?

Need, or want to? 

Yes, why not. 

[anshino23]

5 hours ago, moment said:

As a slight aside.  But, since the door was opened and also since it happened in my area and time:

 

The 1984 Rajneeshee bioterror attack was the food poisoning of 751 individuals in The Dalles, Oregon, through the deliberate contamination of salad bars at ten local restaurants with Salmonella. A group of prominent followers of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (later known as Osho) led by Ma Anand Sheela had hoped to incapacitate the voting population of the city so that their own candidates would win the 1984 Wasco County elections.The incident was the single largest bioterrorist attack in United States history.

 

I have been hearing off and on about the great Osho, etc. So,--- He was a truly evil SOB That was so good at mind control that he could get many people ( such as Ma Anand to fall on their swords for him), because of that the Feds here, could not put him in a dark hole, forever like he deserved. Instead, my government deported him and banned his return for life. He is a perfect example of being turned by the forces that he tried to control.  Truly a lesson here about the irresponsible use of powers..

 

There's a great documentary on Osho on Netflix called Wild Wild Country. Highly recommended. Very sad abuse of power. 

[anshino23]

6 hours ago, Heartbreak said:

What’s wrong with choosing Siddhis over materialism including sex?

 

Given a choice between being a Siddha like Osho or being a tall hunky TOP 100 actor like Liam Neeson, wouldn’t you choose being a Siddha anytime?

 

Why would anyone want to have sexual relationships with unevolved beings anyway no matter how beautiful their made up faces are?

 

You can choose either but cultivating for siddhis means you are not cultivating for enlightenment, which means that ultimately, you are cultivating for something impermanent and something you can't bring with you and more likely than not, just will bring you more suffering. It won't fix your question and fear about life and death. 

Edited February 14, 2020 by anshino23

[rideforever]

Interesting reading.  I think human life is very difficult and confusing.

It can seem desirable to fly away with imagination, to wish to be Siddhi powered or Bodhisattva.  It's a bit like when people talk of their past-lives they were always Cleopatra or Alexander the Great !  Nobody ever remembers a past-life as Joe the postman.

Anyway it's good to have an awakening but it doesn't really fix anything.  Many spiritual people live with a small awakening or awareness whilst the rest of them is simply dying or in stasis and they hang around in big groups and each one of them has 0.5% awakening and sort of desperately cling on to it.  This isn't so good.

You are what you are and there is gold in there, within the "ordinary life".  Unfortunately "ordinary material life" is hated by spiritual people as well as ... scientific progress people.   Everybody hates "ordinary material life".

But I tell you if you are in love with a woman is beautiful to you ... then it's everything.  It doesn't matter if you are rich or poor or Bodhisattva.  Because you are you, and she is she.

There is no escape, it's quite a deep thing.  You cannot be something else, so the only way is in.  And don't imagine there is nothing in there.  Both the spiritual and science people are telling you to improve from your "ordinary material life", they stand around and tell you that your life is sh1t.  All of them do.

But I tell ... it is gold.  There is nothing ordinary or material about you.  If you come to know you. 

It is all made of stars.

 

[Rara]

8 hours ago, Heartbreak said:

Well there are plenty of masters besides Osho. He is just one example. I apologise if you all think Osho is a bad example of a Siddha.

 

All I am saying is every human being in this world is born with unawakened siddhi powers and they waste their life away without doing anything to awaken their powers all the while wasting their time and energy away on materialistic stuff.

 

The world dangles tempting carrots in front of us. When we're not awake to it, the difficult things is to see what it is that is damaging us. We are programmed to make the same mistakes time and time again, whether that's toxic relationships, drugs, fighting etc etc.

 

You can stay on your path, but don't expect others to understand.

[Rara]

7 hours ago, Heartbreak said:

Then wtf is anyone doing in this forum if they do not want to Ascend to become a higher dimensional race or even a God or Goddess?

 

If you are a Celestial God or Goddess living as part of a higher dimensional race you can have sex for infinity without any sacrifices

 

You can even have space time sex.

 

Ok dude, this is quite warped. I'd totally review your purpose for cultivating

[Heartbreak]

7 minutes ago, Rara said:

 

Ok dude, this is quite warped. I'd totally review your purpose for cultivating

I don’t think you get my point.

 

The higher dimensional races can only do things which we dream about. Or watch movies about.

 

The purpose of cultivating well it’s not just about powers.. it’s about cultivating your soul as well.. if you can cultivate your soul to get rid of the negative layers of your soul then your powers will manifest..

 

Material desires like greed and lust are part of the negative layers of the soul which are keeping our powers suppressed.

[rideforever]

7 hours ago, Heartbreak said:

 

 

I was listening to Sheila the other day and she was describing her meetings with Osho during his 3 years silent period when he actually met his family and senior students every day and withdrew from the public but was not silent.  She said that she would sometimes tell him that someone had asked what to do with this and that swirly energy or chakra opening or experience ... and he would roll his eyes and say "Sheila why you waste my time ... just tell them anything you want".  He was not interested in powers at all,  nor in experiences, he was interested in letting students unscrew themselves by shaking out all the garbage and being more natural and simple with their needs and desires; and in his later years often just sat quietly absorbed in deep states saying little.

[Rara]

9 minutes ago, Heartbreak said:

I don’t think you get my point.

 

The higher dimensional races can only do things which we dream about. Or watch movies about.

 

The purpose of cultivating well it’s not just about powers.. it’s about cultivating your soul as well.. if you can cultivate your soul to get rid of the negative layers of your soul then your powers will manifest..

 

Material desires like greed and lust are part of the negative layers of the soul which are keeping our powers suppressed.

 

I understood it fully, hence my first reply. But let's get one thing straight...you nor anyone is a part of a "higher dimensional race". Please be careful what you get yourself into, because it will shape your attitude and ego in a terrible way. Trust me, I was there before, and it comes back with many negative effects.

 

You are correct about it not being just about powers but cultivating your soul. And if you do so, the soul will be all the power that you need. But try and avoid the negative language and attitude because if you step aside right now and look at how you speak, objectively, you will see that you are taking a very hard, almost draconian approach to this.

 

I encourage a softer, Daoist approach.

[JustARandomPanda]

10 hours ago, Heartbreak said:

What’s wrong with choosing Siddhis over materialism including sex?

 

Short answer: Nothing, if that's what actually goads you and keeps goading you into daily practice. Daily, persistent cultivation practice will change you so there's no guarantee this will even be an issue by the time one dies.

 

Longer answer:

 

I tend to be a bit more forgiving these days of people's 'reasons' of 'why choose X over Y' - as long as they actually do practice. In actual terms I don't think you're looking to "Ascend" or you'd have put  a loaded gun to your head and pulled the trigger by now instead of posting on a forum. That would guarantee ascension. I'm guessing you're like many spiritual seekers and wanting to bring the promised fruit of "ascension" into the here and now because the stereotype of ascension is that it's a paradise. Ditto with getting rid of desires of any kind since those are also said to be major hindrances to the fruit of ascension.

 

Even if you have 'blips' of the fruit of Siddha mastery 1% of the time that doesn't help you for the other 99%. And that other 99% is where most people spend their lives. Now you have a clearer idea of what to take aim at to improve. So whatever reason you give yourself to keep practicing - as long as you practice to make that other 99% more steadily joyful - do that and don't worry about 'hindrances', 'ascension', 'siddhis', 'kundalini', etc.

Edited February 14, 2020 by JustARandomPanda
typos

[silent thunder]

8 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

An abridged retelling of an old Zen story: a master was found inside a brothel enjoying sake, and one of the students asked what the hell he was doing there. 

 

The master said, "If you think enlightenment is found only in drinking tea and in the monastery, look closely: you'll find it in the brothels and in sake too, just like you will find those trying to escape their problems through the teachings and hiding in the monastery while drinking tea."

 

this is a very strong message and lesson.  I'm a hearty plus one to Earl's lesson here.

 

I forge my own chains.  When they are woven of desires for food, sexual release, cars, clothes, admiration of others... they are said to be chains of lead.  These chains are coarse, ugly and unpleasant.

 

When instead chains are woven of desires for siddhis, healing abilities, astral travel, psychic insight, third eye visions and the consort and admiration of higher dimensional beings... they are pretty, smooth and pleasant chains of gold.  But a chain is a chain... whomever places it upon our mind and heart space... they are limitations to potential.  Cutting off vast swathes of our innate power.

 

In short, your very act of seeking, of adoration of a mental object, be it a pretty one, or a mundane one, is the very act, forging your chains of whatever type and keeping you from experiencing the great freedom of life, now, in this moment as a flowing aspect of the unity of all life.

 

Chains of lead, or chains of gold.  You are binding your potential self through your addictive and obsessive mental process. 

It doesn't really matter what you worship, it will occupy your time until your time is up.

 

To answer your question @Heartbreak in my opinion there's nothing wrong with choosing siddhis over materialism.  Nothing at all.  Either one, will fill up your lifetime with pursuits, achievements, results (of some kind), and ramifications (of some kind).  Will they lead you to what you are holding in your mind in this moment as your goal?  who can know?

 

For many years, I worshipped my judgement of things.  Things I considered to be wrong were met with fierce anger and rage... justified because it was 'wrong'... I allowed myself to be utterly possessed by this obsessive notion.

 

The more I fed it, the more I found myself noticing similar aspects of life, which created more avenues for me to express my rage at the wrongness I was finding... everywhere.

 

Eventually, through shear exhaustion, I saw that I was not solving the worlds problems, or mine, through my justified worship of being upset at what I found ugly, wrong and ill in the world.  All I was doing was filling my mind and heart, with anger, which then caused me to become the very aspect of life that I was seeking to lash out against.

 

My friends would ask "why are you so pissed?"  Instead of hanging out and enjoying the present moment with loved ones, I was obsessing over what wasn't right, what needed fixing and how I would go about fixing it, or even worse, lecturing and mentally obsessing over what I thought others should be doing to fix it.

 

Eventually exhaustion won out and my inertia for this died a loving whimpering death.

 

I realized that the words of buddha whether he was real or not, rang true for me. 

"be careful what you allow yourself to think (worship).  This becomes  your reality."

 

I have only so much energy in any one given day.  I can use it to focus on any aspect of reality.  But whatever I focus on... that will be my experience of reality that day.  I can spend it all on rage and what is wrong, I can spend it on loving and nurturing... I can spend it on going within and isolating from the world, I can spend it on reaching out and expanding my sense of self through connection.

 

Which is best?  pfft.  who can tell you?  It's for you to discover your authentic path and what fulfills you.

 

What you want to focus on... totally up to you.  Nothing wrong with seeking siddhis, or sex, or a great career, or cars.

But in my experience... seeking a thing, was not the path to it.  Seeking in my experience was the final obstacle in my way of manifesting and experiencing the reality... which is... it's all here already.

 

My process has become one of release acknowledgement and effortless embodiment of awareness.

but that's just me.

 

I hear the pain in your words friend, and in your name @Heartbreak.  For whatever you want to find in life, I would recommend you start a practice daily that calms you and relaxes you.  For without these, whatever you seek, opportunities to follow it will be harder to notice and engage, when your mind and reality are full of seeking thoughts, instead of awareness of where and how you are being right now.

 

I wish you peace and healing mate.  I've been in the long dark several times in this life and share much empathy for the pain of it. 

 

It is utterly hell.