Best Online Neigong Training? (Non-Religious)

[Charris34]

Hi all,  I have been studying/practicing qigong/taiji/yoga for 20+ years, reading everything I can find.  I also have professional training in TCM, with qigong/taiji training from multiple teachers, but I feel like it is time to take my practice to the next level.  For now, I have only found Lotus Neigong and Ba Men Da Xuan online training systems.  I know people say that this is something that we need a teacher for, but I don't live in an area where there are live teachers.  For this reason, I am looking for a system that I can learn from books and videos.  I would be able to travel from time to time, but really am looking for a complete system that I can learn mostly online.  Is there anyone here that can vouch for either of the above systems or is there a better one that you could recommend?  I am open to suggestions.  TIA

[senseless virtue]

Shuigong aka Sleeping Qigong is the most complete Daoist alchemy training that I have found. Very accessible style and John Dolic is an awesome teacher.

 

Sifu Dolic readily teaches through Skype and gives excellent practice notes to students.

[silent thunder]

Wang Li Ping gives regular in person training, if you can travel and has published several in depth books to augment in person study between retreats.

[idquest]

Damo Mitchell has pretty good material available remotely. If you manage to attend 1-2 of his events (that are fully booked 6 months prior) per year, you will be well positioned. But this is only for the movement part of the practice. It is unclear from your OP what exactly you need/want to focus on, movements or silent sitting. Silent sitting is another issue. It will depend on how you resonate with a system, being that dao, Buddhism, yoga, or something else. As well as your location.

[Charris34]

3 hours ago, idquest said:

Damo Mitchell has pretty good material available remotely. If you manage to attend 1-2 of his events (that are fully booked 6 months prior) per year, you will be well positioned. But this is only for the movement part of the practice. It is unclear from your OP what exactly you need/want to focus on, movements or silent sitting. Silent sitting is another issue. It will depend on how you resonate with a system, being that dao, Buddhism, yoga, or something else. As well as your location.

 

So I have read Damo's books and been integrating them into my practice.  Quite honestly, I have not found any other written material that explains the process so thoroughly and makes impossible things seem possible (stuff that I would have written off as fantasy before).  Then I found Da Xuan's website talking about how much it helps to have a tradition with a complete system to follow instead of a patchwork practice (which some folks here have claimed Damo's system to be).  In his books, Damo claims to have experienced some pretty advanced results with  physical signs of progress (stuff which I would have considered exaggeration, but his writing seems to be earnest). 

 

For my part, my practice has been more movement than sitting.  So far movement has brought some health benefits helping me maintain a decent level of health for my age, but nothing like you read in books.  Never had the patience for sitting, but as I get older seems like I might be getting ready for it. 

 

Until reading Damo's books, I would have only believed that sitting would quiet the mind and relax the sympathetic nervous system.  Now I am wondering, if all this is possible, which is the "best" daoist system?  I wrote my initial question here, because I am looking for an answer from someone who has experienced more advanced results, but with no financial incentive.

 

[idquest]

3 hours ago, Charris34 said:

...

Until reading Damo's books, I would have only believed that sitting would quiet the mind and relax the sympathetic nervous system.  Now I am wondering, if all this is possible, which is the "best" daoist system?  I wrote my initial question here, because I am looking for an answer from someone who has experienced more advanced results, but with no financial incentive.

 

 

For sitting, I study Wang Liping's system. The system is far from what you wrote above. At home, I eat two times a day and I'm fine. When I go to Wang Liping's retreats, I eat three times a day and they are full nutritious meals. The reason for that is that at the level 1, the system works with all internal tissue in a highly intensive manner, so sometimes the impression is you just did a gym session. Although you can make a session as physical or as subtle as you want and as it suitable for you at the moment. So quiet  sitting is not only relaxation.

 

Damo Mitchell is open when he says he has had many teachers, both in movements and in meditation. In movements, he teaches qigong and daoyin (at least at level 1), so you choose what is best for you. As you have studied many systems, you already know that following one teacher does not always work for most students as bodies are vastly different and people keep looking for what suits them more. I mean marrying to one system could be good in theory, but in practice it may not work.

[Charris34]

19 hours ago, idquest said:

As you have studied many systems, you already know that following one teacher does not always work for most students as bodies are vastly different and people keep looking for what suits them more. I mean marrying to one system could be good in theory, but in practice it may not work.

 

Yes, I definitely have had more than one teacher.  I guess part of me wonders what it would be like to have studied just one system and gone into it deeply.  Another part of me knows that this was not my path.  I am just grateful that I have been able to cobble together what I have. 

 

On 2/15/2020 at 1:28 PM, virtue said:

Shuigong aka Sleeping Qigong is the most complete Daoist alchemy training that I have found. Very accessible style and John Dolic is an awesome teacher.

 

Sifu Dolic readily teaches through Skype and gives excellent practice notes to students.

 

Thanks.  I will check him out.

[Charris34]

So is anyone here using Ba Men Da Xuan?  Anyone have friends using it?  

[RobB]

53 minutes ago, Charris34 said:

So is anyone here using Ba Men Da Xuan?  Anyone have friends using it?  

 

I am just coming to the end of my first year of the Daxuan online training. It works for me. You can get a lot of the flavour of the training - and plenty of exercises to experiment with - from Serges books.

 

There is also an Udemy course which gives an introduction to some of the Daxuan physical practices. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by RobB
Added the Udemy thing.

[Charris34]

On 2/18/2020 at 2:23 PM, RobB said:

 

I am just coming to the end of my first year of the Daxuan online training. It works for me. You can get a lot of the flavour of the training - and plenty of exercises to experiment with - from Serges books.

 

There is also an Udemy course which gives an introduction to some of the Daxuan physical practices. 

 

The Udemy course just went on sale so I am working through it now.

[nyerstudent]

Stillness Movement Neigung now has an online subscription with access to all the DVD content (streaming), a forum to ask questions, and re-occurring remote classes: https://stillnessmovement.com/

 

I was curious so I joined for a month, though I don't / didn't end up practicing the system. The site and format is great. The online subscription though seemed like A LOT of value given the material and the amount of $$ they were asking for. 

[Creation]

On 2/15/2020 at 3:28 PM, virtue said:

Shuigong aka Sleeping Qigong is the most complete Daoist alchemy training that I have found. Very accessible style and John Dolic is an awesome teacher.

 

Sifu Dolic readily teaches through Skype and gives excellent practice notes to students.

Could you say more about what makes it "the most complete" training you have found? The shuigong I have encountered in the past was an adjunct practice, not a complete system in itself.

 

Sifu Dolic only teaches 1 on 1 and his hourly rate is rather pricey, correct?

Edited April 1, 2020 by Creation

[senseless virtue]

3 hours ago, Creation said:

Could you say more about what makes it "the most complete" training you have found? The shuigong I have encountered in the past was an adjunct practice, not a complete system in itself.

 

Good question, thank you for asking!

 

There are different practices named Shuigong and most seem to really be like you call adjuncts.

 

You could ask Sifu Dolic himself about what's exactly included in his lineage teachings, but I'll give you my opinion.

 

The style offers ethical exhortations, insights into sleeping hygiene, instructions how to make sleep into meditation and traditional and modern science behind it, teaching to interpret dream types and how they relate to psychic powers, instructions on karmic work in dreams, an unique take on lower dantian training, third eye and middle dantian training leading to the creation of astral body and seeing auras, a powerful and simple sleeping meditation through fetal respiration, a few supplementary exercises for different special needs such as recovering from ejaculation and keeping the body fit, a unique and powerful MCO (which you will not find it elsewhere) and an esoteric weather manipulation method with it, many healing techniques that are safe and easy to learn, methods for making astral travel safe and meaningful, instructions for accessing the sound of Dharmata, and some other stuff lurking in the advanced level.

 

This type of depth and cover for Daoist alchemy simply isn't openly taught anywhere else. Many of the methods would be secretive in-door teachings for selected students in other schools.

 

Quote

Sifu Dolic only teaches 1 on 1 and his hourly rate is rather pricey, correct?

 

He teaches classes also in Australia. There is a group tuition price available, but it's about the same now that he has slashed prices for online tuition anyway. I would remind that these are in Australian dollars, so it's not so expensive for many people as it might seem. Sifu Dolic has also repeatedly said to me that he is always willing to repeat the paid lessons without charging again if the student needs further pointers. In my experience only few teachers are as generous and accommodating as he is.

Edited April 1, 2020 by virtue

[Earl Grey]

12 minutes ago, virtue said:

 

Good question, thank you for asking!

 

You could ask Sifu Dolic himself about what's exactly included, but I'll give you my opinion.

 

The style offers ethical exhortations, insights into sleeping hygiene, instructions how to make sleep into meditation and traditional and modern science behind it, teaching to interpret dream types and how they relate to psychic powers, instructions on karmic work in dreams, an unique take on lower dantian training, third eye and middle dantian training leading to the creation of astral body and seeing auras, a powerful and simple sleeping meditation through fetal respiration, a few supplementary exercises for different special needs such as recovering from ejaculation and keeping the body fit, a unique and powerful MCO (which you will not find it elsewhere) and an esoteric weather manipulation method with it, many healing techniques that are safe and easy to learn, methods for making astral travel safe and meaningful, instructions for accessing the sound of Dharmata, and some other stuff lurking in the advanced level.

 

This type of depth and cover for Daoist alchemy simply isn't openly taught anywhere else. Many of the methods would be secretive in-door teachings for selected students in other schools.

 

 

He teaches classes also in Australia. There is a group tuition price available, but it's about same now that he has slashed prices for online tuition anyway. I would remind that these are in Australian dollars, so it's not so expensive for many people as it might seem. Sifu Dolic has also repeatedly said to me that he is always willing to repeat the paid lessons without charging again if the student needs further pointers. In my experience only few teachers are as generous and accommodating as he is.

 

I will also add that considering how powerful the practice is, he's teaching it at a huge discount--you can ask him what he had to do to learn it in China. 

[ronko]

damo mitchell launches his online internal academy tomorrow

 

[Creation]

3 hours ago, ronko said:

damo mitchell launches his online internal academy tomorrow

 

Oh, I see he has deleted his Vimeo courses.  I hadn't finished working through that content yet.

[Creation]

9 hours ago, virtue said:

The style offers ethical exhortations, insights into sleeping hygiene, instructions how to make sleep into meditation and traditional and modern science behind it, teaching to interpret dream types and how they relate to psychic powers, instructions on karmic work in dreams, an unique take on lower dantian training, third eye and middle dantian training leading to the creation of astral body and seeing auras, a powerful and simple sleeping meditation through fetal respiration, a few supplementary exercises for different special needs such as recovering from ejaculation and keeping the body fit, a unique and powerful MCO (which you will not find it elsewhere) and an esoteric weather manipulation method with it, many healing techniques that are safe and easy to learn, methods for making astral travel safe and meaningful, instructions for accessing the sound of Dharmata, and some other stuff lurking in the advanced level.

...

He teaches classes also in Australia. There is a group tuition price available, but it's about the same now that he has slashed prices for online tuition anyway. I would remind that these are in Australian dollars, so it's not so expensive for many people as it might seem. Sifu Dolic has also repeatedly said to me that he is always willing to repeat the paid lessons without charging again if the student needs further pointers. In my experience only few teachers are as generous and accommodating as he is.

Thanks. 

 

It's not prohibitively expensive, sure, just requires a fair bit of saving up on my budget.  Most all my expendable money goes to cultivation related things anyway, it's just a matter of selecting wisely what to invest in.  A week of training in person with Adam Mizner, for instance, would be comparably priced, hard to say which would be more beneficial for me.

 

Since you call this Shuigong alchemical, the question arises for me is does the issue of yin shen vs. yang shen arise?  Often one hears alchemical lineages discouraging astral projection type practices as an obstacle to yang shen cultivation.  @Earl Grey, would been interested to hear anything you have to say on this as well.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Creation

[senseless virtue]

14 hours ago, Creation said:

It's not prohibitively expensive, sure, just requires a fair bit of saving up on my budget.

 

You could take just one lesson and see how it suits you. Five Dragons Curled Up is the main sleeping method that uses fetal respiration, which I would recommend for trying out the style. Of course, you could try just about any other lesson I indicated above although some of them are intermediate and not beginner skills.

 

Quote

 

Since you call this Shuigong alchemical, the question arises for me is does the issue of yin shen vs. yang shen arise?  Often one hears alchemical lineages discouraging astral projection type practices as an obstacle to yang shen cultivation.  @Earl Grey, would been interested to hear anything you have to say on this as well.

 

The point of all yogic sleep is to train in dreamless sleep. Shuigong isn't any different: astral travel and dream work are just expedient means to work on your karma from a different angle and help others. Shuigong teachings help overcome all the typical issues associated with astral projection.

 

Yin shen and yang shen are both cultivated, but the emphasis is on yang shen because that's the alchemy. The shen bodies are complementary achievements anyway, so why worry?

 

Please note that if you asked Sifu Dolic about these, he probably wouldn't use technical language. He likes to speak from direct experience instead of any theory.

Edited April 2, 2020 by virtue

[Creation]

6 hours ago, virtue said:

You could take just one lesson and see how it suits you.

Oh! I saw a particular timetable posted for the lessons and assumed there was a commitment to doing the lessons within that time.  Well, that settles the thing for me, thank you.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Creation

[forestofclarity]

Did you check it out? 

 

On 4/2/2020 at 6:59 AM, Creation said:

Oh! I saw a particular timetable posted for the lessons and assumed there was a commitment to doing the lessons within that time.  Well, that settles the thing for me, thank you.

 

[moreira Filho]

On 15/02/2020 at 6:28 PM, senseless virtue said:

Shuigong aka Sleeping Qigong is the most complete Daoist alchemy training that I have found. Very accessible style and John Dolic is an awesome teacher.

 

Sifu Dolic readily teaches through Skype and gives excellent practice notes to students.

Hi. Can you tell more about the system and the results of the practice?

[senseless virtue]

On 11/6/2021 at 8:38 PM, moreira Filho said:

Hi. Can you tell more about the system and the results of the practice?

 

One article about Shuigong:

 

http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/sleeping_qigong

 

 

Sifu John Dolic is the best person to answer your questions about the Shuigong system:

 

http://www.qigongchinesehealth.com/contact