Shaking to improve immunity, prevent colds and flus, expel wind-cold pathogenic qi, strengthen protective qi

[Taomeow]

9 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

Well, get cold enough and you'll stop moving forever! 

 

 

I'm beginning to wonder about your methods...  

 

9 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

 people I know who've used it as I described report powerful effects. 

 

Good to know they're still reporting. 

 

Seriously though, I do think shaking qigong is a good thing and will probably experiment.  Thanks for posting. 

 

  

[ralis]

1 hour ago, Walker said:

 

Huh?? I would have thought using a smiley face and a ridiculous term like "tut-tut" would have made it clear I was joshing you.

 

That said, in case it is not clear:

 

I in no way believe that this method is guaranteed to prevent the contraction of any specific infection. I am merely sharing this method because of personal experience and anecdotal experience of close, trusted friends which indicates that it has a remarkable immune boosting effect. I have no absolute opinions about what it can or will do for others who use it. Nor should anybody interpret the point of this post to be a comment on the pros and cons of vaccinations, or the offering of an "alternative" to vaccines. Sheesh. 

 

Jokes aside, Ralis, if you wish to talk about vaccinations, smallpox, or anything unrelated to this shaking technique may I please suggest starting a new thread so that this one may remain focused on the technicalities of this method ? Thank you. 

 

I am not interested in contradictory game playing that borders on 'double binding' in any way whatsoever! Furthermore, the novel corona virus was mentioned  in your opening post and I responded. I suggest you read Gregory Bateson's work on 'double binding' in order to more effectively communicate in a reasonable manner.

 

tut-tut; expressing disapproval or annoyance.

 

I did shaking medicine for a few years and found no difference in my immune response!

[Walker]

1 hour ago, ralis said:

tut-tut; expressing disapproval or annoyance.

 

 In a playful way, hence choice of word used by Mary Poppins and addition of smiley face.......... Anywayyyy......

 

1 hour ago, ralis said:

I did shaking medicine for a few years and found no difference in my immune response!

 

Well, no method works for everybody, no method can deal with every or even a majority of challenges to human health, and a multitude of factors we aren't aware of are always in play. 

 

That said...

 

Was the way you practiced very similar to what I described in the first post? If not please point out the differences. They may have been relevant as to the question of why I and others have gotten pronounced results from the method in this thread, while you did not from the method you used.

[MuadDib]

Thank you for sharing this. I now shake as you described for a couple of minutes prior to my ZZ practice. It clearly helps circulation.

 

One time, I shook for a few minutes 2-3 hours before going to bed. I was not able to sleep much that night.

 

I intend to go for 15-20 minute sessions over the next few weekends and see how it goes.

[Taomeow]

On 2/25/2020 at 6:56 PM, Taomeow said:

 

On a different note, I just got a text from one of teacher Wang's senior instructors with his (Wang Liping's) article dedicated to specific practices for fighting off infections and expediting convalescence toward full recovery (which is an important, and mostly overlooked by today's medicine, part of the whole cycle of overcoming an illness).  Not posting it here yet because, for one thing I got it translated into Russian (don't have the Chinese version) and currently have no time to translate it into Ehglish (it's fairly long), and for another, didn't have the time to read it in depth myself yet, just skimmed.  I'll try to see what Google Translate can do with it if there's interest (and help it along a bit if it talks nonsense -- though I am often at a loss translating the Cyrillic version of taoist terms into Pinyin myself).  I think it is a more spiritual/alchemical, less physiological version of the relevant parts of the Yellow Emperor's Classic, but, like I said, I just had a chance to take a very quick look so far.       

 

Nathan beat me to it: 

 

[Taomeow]

Here's the great Chen Bing addressing the same problem with some fangsonggong:

 

https://vimeo.com/390182934?fbclid=IwAR0nF0Q15Hb3Zp6XB1BUjSCw7D0jZMyFNu8QDFO130GyOWX6es6rFhkD7yI

 

[Walker]

A bump to describe exactly how I use this method now that it has taken root in my body and I no longer need to do it with regularity. 

 

A couple of days ago I went camping at the top of a huge gorge that opens out into the Pacific Ocean 15 km from where I set up my tent. Powerful winds rip up the canyon from the ocean, winding through V-shaped river canyons with nearly-vertical marble walls that rise hundreds of meters through the air. Somehow, as is often said to be the case with canyon and desert winds, these winds seemed especially able to "get into the cracks" in my body's defensive qi (衛氣/weiqi), but unfortunately I didn't heed the initial feelings of discomfort, and instead sat in the wind for a long time after sunset.

 

Once it became clear that the wind had "got in me," I did a bit of baguazhang circle walking to build qi while wearing a strong Goretex windbreaker/raincoat. Although I succeeded at building qi quite quickly, I was still in the wind while circle walking, so I may have made the situation worse rather than better. This is because as soon as I had a bit of internal qi my pores opened and a very slight sweat broke out. Although that is a sign, in TCM, that external pathogenic wind qi will have been pushed out of the body, at the same time it means the pores are open, so more external wind can get in! Overall, it was a stupid move. There is even a phrase in the martial arts that I can't remember the exact wording of, but its gist is "kung-fu masters don't fear human adversaries, but a little wind will kill em dead."  

 

I thought about doing zhanzhuang afterwards, as this is a daily practice I very seldom miss, but there was truly nowhere to be out of the wind, which was now really roaring up through the canyon. I stood in position for a few seconds and my body put the kaibash on the idea--I could tell this was not laziness or avoidance, but a warning from within. I beat a hasty retreat to my tent and got ready to sleep. However, by now the wind was really in me, and I had a terrific headache splitting along the left side of my face and temple, going right into my left eye socket. I seldom get headaches, and almost never nasty buggers like this. It was painful enough that falling asleep was difficult and it later woke me many times throughout the night. 

 

By morning the headache had grown to cover both eyes and my whole forehead. I felt nauseous, weak, and generally on the verge of "coming down with something." Fortunately the wind had died down to a gentle breeze during the night. I realized I had better do this shaking practice, otherwise my chances of getting a cold or worse would be high. Covid or no covid, coming down with a fever would mean not being allowed back onto a train into the city and all sorts of other inconvenience, including possibly being compelled to hole up for 14 days. So, with no wind to worry about, I dragged my sorry ass out of my tent and found a good place to stand on flat ground. And I began shaking. 

 

I am not sure how long I stood for, but I would estimate approximately 30 to 40 minutes. Within a few minutes the shaking loosened up my abdominal discomfort and dispelled the sense of nausea. But the headache remained. The effects of the shaking did not reach my headache until at least 20 minutes had passed. Once they did the headache gradually subsided. Many different subtle variations in frequency and amplitude occurred, as well as spontaneous changes where the different body parts most involved in the movement would alternate. Nevertheless, I simply followed the basic instructions I posted above, with my hands at my side, feet flat on the ground. 

 

After a half an hour or so the surface of my body broke out into a light sweat, precisely the kind of "sickly" sweat you might get with a cold, although fortunately because my body's qi was pushing this sweat out before actually getting really sick. On the basis of this sign I decided to employ the "Ha" sound, sending out one very loud HA from the bottom of my abdomen that echoed back at me from across the canyon. This pushed a bit more light sweat out, and left me feeling that my qi had more or less recovered normalcy. I shook for a little while longer and then came to a stop, after which I stood in stillness for several minutes, letting my body return to "normal." I felt quite comfortable, light, and 通. Since I had sweat I quickly changed into a clean, dry shirt and then covered up with my fleece and raincoat, so that drafts could not get into my open pores. I felt thoroughly refreshed and the headache and other symptoms were totally gone. 

 

Later that day and the next day I passed several very loose stools. One of the symptoms of cold in the spleen-stomach in TCM can be loose, watery stool. As I had not eaten anything unclean or drank from streams, I suspect that maybe this reaction reflected that the shaking allowed my body to shift some of the wind-cold into the stomach meridian (I am speaking about the meridians Zhang Zhongjing identifies in the Shanghanlun, and not the 12 primary meridians from acupuncture/zang-fu theory, for those who are TCM students and might be curious). This kind of transference of external pathogenic qi is described in the Shanghanlun or Treatise on Cold Damage, but I am not 100% sure that that's what happened.

 

In any case, I did not develop subsequent cold or flu symptoms and was able to board my train the next day without trouble.

 

This is how I use this method. If it has not yet taken root in your body, you will need daily or near-daily practice for a period of weeks or months before it can become something you can "keep in your back pocket" and pull out as needed. 

 

Disclaimer, just in case: All of the above is for consideration ONLY. It is not medical advice; it is not a cure for any disease; it is not guaranteed to prevent the contraction of any virus, bacteria, or other type of microscopic pathogen. It is only likely to help with the symptoms of what TCM calls "external wind-cold pathogenic qi," the appearance of which may or may not correspond with what western medicine would call "the common cold." Please do not interpret what I have shared as a call to ignore the advice of any qualified medical professionals. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Walker

[gendao]

Bombdiggity!!

12 hours ago, Walker said:

I suspect that maybe this reaction reflected that the shaking allowed my body to shift some of the wind-cold into the stomach meridian (I am speaking about the meridians Zhang Zhongjing identifies in the Shanghanlun, and not the 12 primary meridians from acupuncture/zang-fu theory, for those who are TCM students and might be curious). This kind of transference of external pathogenic qi is described in the Shanghanlun or Treatise on Cold Damage, but I am not 100% sure that that's what happened.

You mean the 6 pairings?


BTW, what is your opinion of Wim Hof's intentional extreme cold exposure for BOOSTING immunity vs TCM's coldphobic avoidance?

Edited April 7, 2020 by gendao

[RIP789]

Walker:

 

Thanks very much for posting your experiences with shaking - very helpful.

 

I used to do some shaking years ago as a warm-up to qigong or Taiji practice.  At the time, I thought that 300 shakes were plenty.

 

Your advice goaded me to do more or less 10 times that, as an end onto itself.  Since re-starting this practice shortly after your original post, I've been doing shaking sessions of 15-20 minutes each at least 3-4 days a week.  More than once, feeling tired or being on the verge of coming down with something, I found that shaking re-energized me or brought me back from the brink.

 

I am not sure whether what I feel at the end of each session is what you call 通 (freedom from blockages would be my translation of that word), so I may need to keep practicing to get to what you described.  However, if I were to borrow the concept of the 3 states of H2O as analogies from Bruce Frantzis, I would describe my state prior to a session to be somewhat frozen or viscous liquid, and the end state upon completing the session as steam (a healthful internal heat emanating from the LDT which induces a  light sweat).

 

Also, as Starjumper remarked in an earlier post in this thread, all that shaking does seem to benefit qi generation.

 

Much appreciate this type of simple and yet profound and effective exercise during these trying times!

 

 

 

 

[Toni]

interesting technique, i will try it tomorrow. Do you think it can help with tinnitus? thanks

[Walker]

On 4/8/2020 at 12:32 AM, gendao said:

Bombdiggity!!

You mean the 6 pairings?

 

Nope, I mean the "六經," which I just saw are referred to on a Wikipedia page as the "six levels." The "six meridians/levels/jing" are a complicated construct of the body's qi that is discussed in extreme detail in the Treatise on Cold Damage aka Shanghanlun. 

 

On 4/8/2020 at 12:32 AM, gendao said:

BTW, what is your opinion of Wim Hof's intentional extreme cold exposure for BOOSTING immunity vs TCM's coldphobic avoidance?

 

I don't know much about Wim Hof's stuff, but my simple answer would be that since Wim Hof has a method to allow the body to deal with the cold in ways it cannot if one has not learned the method, then many of TCM's basic ideas may not apply to him and his students. As for whether or not what he is doing will affect his and his students' longevity in any way, well, we can only wait and see.

 

On 4/8/2020 at 8:04 AM, RIP789 said:

Walker:

 

Thanks very much for posting your experiences with shaking - very helpful.

 

You're most welcome. 

 

On 4/8/2020 at 8:04 AM, RIP789 said:

I used to do some shaking years ago as a warm-up to qigong or Taiji practice.  At the time, I thought that 300 shakes were plenty.

 

Your advice goaded me to do more or less 10 times that, as an end onto itself.  Since re-starting this practice shortly after your original post, I've been doing shaking sessions of 15-20 minutes each at least 3-4 days a week.  More than once, feeling tired or being on the verge of coming down with something, I found that shaking re-energized me or brought me back from the brink.

 

I am not sure whether what I feel at the end of each session is what you call 通 (freedom from blockages would be my translation of that word), so I may need to keep practicing to get to what you described.  However, if I were to borrow the concept of the 3 states of H2O as analogies from Bruce Frantzis, I would describe my state prior to a session to be somewhat frozen or viscous liquid, and the end state upon completing the session as steam (a healthful internal heat emanating from the LDT which induces a  light sweat).

 

It sounds like you're on the right track!

 

On 4/8/2020 at 8:04 AM, RIP789 said:

Also, as Starjumper remarked in an earlier post in this thread, all that shaking does seem to benefit qi generation.

 

I have to disagree somewhat with Starjumper. Please check what I said about about 散/scattering. Generally speaking this method should not lead to exhaustion and/or qi deficiency in any way, but it does have a somewhat scattering effect, and I have not found it to be qi building at all (nor did Dr. Nugent Head describe it as such). 

 

On 4/8/2020 at 8:04 AM, RIP789 said:

Much appreciate this type of simple and yet profound and effective exercise during these trying times!

 

Keep it up!

 

On 4/11/2020 at 4:05 AM, Toni said:

interesting technique, i will try it tomorrow. Do you think it can help with tinnitus? thanks

 

I'm afraid it will probably not have any effect on your tinnitus. 

[Toni]

What can solve tinnitus then @Walker ?

[Walker]

I don't know, I'm sorry!

 

To all... I can offer no more help on this thread. I hope it is helpful to you. I feel I have explained everything that I can in sufficient detail and with enough thoroughness. I wish you good health. 

[Master Logray]

Happen to be doing that for the past 6 months.  As a style in the Rejuvenate Series (回春功)。 I have reservations on shaking so long.  May be I translate some materials tomorrow. 

[Master Logray]

I learned of this method from Taichi teachers.  But they treated shaking as one of the many unimportant warm up exercises.   For the past 6 months, I shake 2-3 times a day, as part of the Rejuvenation Series.  The requirement varies.  The teacher only prescribed 300 shakes per session.  The book of his grand master is 164 shakes for a minute only, >500 shakes for serious problems.  According to the book, it is good for indigestion, slight food poisoning,  stomach gas, prostrate problems, massage internal organs, especially for strengthening kidney, help in rejuvenation etc. 

 

For tinnitus, TCM usually thinks it is kidney function weakened.  Kidney and ears are related.  So this method should theoretically help.

[Cheshire Cat]

Side note: if you shake too much (like 1 hr a day), it's possible to develop some sort of insomnia.... Bushmen use to shake once a month for healing. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Cheshire Cat

[forestofclarity]

Did anyone actually experiment with this shaking? 

[Zork]

40 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

Did anyone actually experiment with this shaking? 

I get a lot of shaking during spontaneous five animals and I am sure it is cathartic in one way or the other. Should be ok.

[Master Logray]

20 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

Did anyone actually experiment with this shaking? 

 

I did experiment with shaking 20+ minutes against my normal routine of a few hundred shakes.  It doesn't show any difference to me.  I do think it is useful in expelling the wind chill from the body which is a big matter in TCM.

[forestofclarity]

6 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

I did experiment with shaking 20+ minutes against my normal routine of a few hundred shakes.  It doesn't show any difference to me.  I do think it is useful in expelling the wind chill from the body which is a big matter in TCM.

 

Yes, I wonder if the extra time is worth it, which is why I haven't messed with it. Maybe a few minutes before standing?

[awarenessrules]

I read somewhere that shaking is dangerous for most people because it can trigger deep traumas stored in body and make one even more sick. Same goes for spontaneous qigong systems. Is this true?

[doc benway]

On 3/29/2021 at 2:38 AM, awarenessrules said:

I read somewhere that shaking is dangerous for most people because it can trigger deep traumas stored in body and make one even more sick. Same goes for spontaneous qigong systems. Is this true?

 

Shaking can be used to help process and heal traumatic effects trapped in the body/mind. Trauma Release Exercise is one method for that. TRE is quite different from the shaking that Walker suggested in the OP. Anything that mobilizes trauma in the system, however, can potentially bring up memories and related energetic effects so always good to be cautious and have support available if you are a trauma survivor.

[Master Logray]

On 3/29/2021 at 2:38 PM, awarenessrules said:

I read somewhere that shaking is dangerous for most people because it can trigger deep traumas stored in body and make one even more sick. Same goes for spontaneous qigong systems. Is this true?

 

Shaking is worldwide.  The Bushmen shakes everyday, do they ever have trauma? 

[awarenessrules]

On 4/5/2021 at 9:19 PM, steve said:

 

Shaking can be used to help process and heal traumatic effects trapped in the body/mind. Trauma Release Exercise is one method for that. TRE is quite different from the shaking that Walker suggested in the OP. Anything that mobilizes trauma in the system, however, can potentially bring up memories and related energetic effects so always good to be cautious and have support available if you are a trauma survivor.

 

I am a Trauma survivor and have tried TRE 2 times only and it made me so sick for 2 months. It was horrible. I will never try TRE again. So will this type of Qigong shaking mentioned in OP trigger the same effects? I want to be extra cautious this time. On the other hand my immunity is very weak and read in OP  that it helps with immunity. Any suggestions for me?

[Cleansox]

47 minutes ago, awarenessrules said:

 

I am a Trauma survivor and have tried TRE 2 times only and it made me so sick for 2 months. It was horrible. I will never try TRE again. So will this type of Qigong shaking mentioned in OP trigger the same effects? I want to be extra cautious this time. On the other hand my immunity is very weak and read in OP  that it helps with immunity. Any suggestions for me?

Muscle stretching, slow weight shifting, basic abdominal breathing. 

That will work on your immune system, as well as have a positive effect on some of the trauma reactions. 

If the breathing bothers you, do less of that, although if you have any dysregulated breathing pattern this should be attended.