there is no enlightenment in the future

[old3bob]

there is no enlightenment in the future,  for such is only found or realized  now....thus not after jumping through thousands of hoops for unknown number of years and then you get it.

[rideforever]

Then, having this intelligence education and having the state transmitted to you ... then it is instant.  And you practice by sitting in meditation feeling the instantaneousness.  So it is a meeting between the carnal and the immortal, the time bound and the timeless.  The experience of all the sages and saints is one of grave difficulty, years searching, years leaving, years discovering.  It is not so easy.

 

And there is a purpose to it all.  The Self does not need to become realise it already is.  But if we become realised it means that a mortal creature, a unique angle of perception, becomes a channel for the Self to explore the Self through you.  So there is a reason for it all.

Edited February 22, 2020 by rideforever

[old3bob]

well I see our local juvenile delinquent Starjumper is at it again....

 

And Rideforever, of course you know that you are speaking from your own projected, presumed and often jaded sounding position...although I will say that I think you showed some insight at the end of your post. 

[gatito]

6 hours ago, old3bob said:

there is no enlightenment in the future,  for such is only found or realized  now....thus not after jumping through thousands of hoops for unknown number of years and then you get it.

 

In a way that's true because Enlightenment is timeless.

 

However, unless someone's actually Enlightened, they'll never get that point because it's entirely beyond words and intellect, which is why  these sorts of neoadvaita/classical advaita statements are generally counterproductive.

 

To Self-realise Enlightenment, it's generally only necessary to meditate properly for 6-24 months.

 

Following that realisation (Enlightenment) begins the infinitely more complicated task of integrating this first-hand knowledge into everyday life to discover the reality of Liberation.

 

[liminal_luke]

The goal is effortlessness but for most people reaching the goal requires a lot of preliminary effort.

Edited February 22, 2020 by liminal_luke

[gatito]

Exactly!

 

Furthermore, most of them then immediately fall into the guru trap and then fuckup not only themselves but also others.

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by gatito

[Yang]

there are only 3 different subjective locations in space and time we can  " go to  "

 

everything we see hear fel taste and smell comes FROM the future, passes through present time instantly and finally into the past where is stays forever.

 

This message , for example will be written " NOW" and will come to you in your future from my PAST.

 

Without the future , there can be no past and no past without the future first .

 

Future is +

Past is its NEGative. -

 

present time sits between the 2 where we ( humans ) experiences their sensations. 

 

we feel positive or negative in present time. Or neither just positive nor  just negative , but a balance BETWEEN the duality of polarity .

 

when you read this it will seem like its in present time because the future is instant. ( NO TIME elapses ) but its all , everything and everyone you see comes from the future , through present time and then into the past .

 

when we make plans for the future , the plans we make also come from the future , through present time and then INTO the past . 

 

The future emerges OUTWARDS

The past absorbs the future INWARDS 

 

white is as positive as you can get . Black , its negative half is as negative as you can get 

 

white reflects all colors away from it outwards 360 degrees

black ABSORBS all colors , including white INWARDS

 

its white future , present time and black past 

 

+/-

day /night

white /black 

future / past

reflect / absorb

out / in

MALE/Female

instant / delay

go / stop

 

pos attribute / neg attributes.

 

everything that is positive comes from the future instantly , through PT and finally ends in the past at a dead stop. 

 

Male gender is OUT and females are IN , like a Key + and a lock - Both are located in the center of the body . Male genders sit higher up than females. Males are front top and females are 

 

both are useless without each other .

 

Males genitals are located " front top " females are "rear bottem "

 

The future , present time and the past are a spectrum of light from white to all colors and finally black .

 

we sit stand and live between them in present time . The future is optimistic+ and the past is pessimistic-. 

 

The future has a speed called instant and the past is at a dead stop . Its no wonder so many think there is no future because it happens so fast, they don't perceive any of it until it gets to present time and into its past. The moment we see the future in present time, it too, instantly falls into its past where it can be found from the future . 

[silent thunder]

I got into my truck the other day where I had parked on our street.

 

The sun was shining and the light was angled along windshield and due to a layer of tree pollen/dust accumulated on the glass, and the angle of the sunlight, it was almost impossible to see out of the glass, even a bit.

 

I could perceive only patterns of dust on the glass, nothing beyond it.

 

Have you noticed not being able to see through a window into a dark house on a bright day?  The reflected light prevents seeing what lies beyond the glass.

 

It struck me...

 

Knowing the way ahead was clear, I rolled forward and passed out of direct light into the shadow of a building.

 

And the dust became invisible and the world beyond the glass became clearly visible.

I knew the world and the path beyond, even though I couldn't see it, so familiarity allowed me to move the vehicle until sight cleared.

Then went and grabbed the cleaning supplies and cleaned the window.

 

But the conditions of dust and angle of light, prevented clear vision.  Functionally, in those conditions it was not possible to operate with any detail, comfort, or with clarity.

 

It struck me that this is how it goes with awakening... with me.

 

Citta is like clear glass and when conditions align, reality is clear and readily visible, maneuvering becomes simple, the path is readily obvious.  When choked with dust and harsh direct light, reflections of obfuscation create a film over Citta preventing seeing reality more readily and clearly.

 

Our experience of the world arises in our awareness.

Conditions may occlude Citta from time to time, but this is not reflective of the natural state.

 

The world beyond the glass is not altered... only our ability to pierce through it, until we clean the glass, or the wind blows it free.

 

You are it... now... as you are.

 

Cleanse your awareness and see through the dust... or wait for the wind to blow it clean.

Either way, the glass, nor the world changed in seeing or not seeing.

 

It's all right here, right now.

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, gatito said:

Exactly!

 

Furthermore, most of them then immediately fall into the guru trap and then fuckup not only themselves but also others.

 

 

And clutter Buddhist threads on lots of sites!

[old3bob]

btw, I'd say the false guru and true guru are worlds apart, so to speak.

[Yang]

when we read a book , each word we read comes from the future .

when we walk down the hallway and into the kitchen , the kitchen will be cumming from the future.

 

when we hear a sound , it comes from the future 

when we smell a fragrance it too comes from the future . 

 

when you are working in an office and you are on your way home, your HOUSE or apartment is coming to you from the future even though it was built long ago , its still coming from the future . Everything and everyone comes from the future and there are no exceptions.

 

they come from and go to what we call a vanishing point in the center of the X

its also an appearance point .

 

the vanishing point goes away fro us and the appearance point comes towards us . 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vanishing point

 

vanish = +

appear = -  

 

the past goes into the center of the X and the future comes from the center of the X

 

 

white blue green red = pos future 

vanish / appearance in the center  present time both POS and Neg

black yellow magenta and cyan = Neg past 

 

the vanishing point is in between the two just like present time is between the future and the past .

[old3bob]

41 minutes ago, Yang said:

there are only 3 different subjective locations in space and time we can  " go to  "

 

everything we see hear fel taste and smell comes FROM the future, passes through present time instantly and finally into the past where is stays forever.

 

This message , for example will be written " NOW" and will come to you in your future from my PAST.

 

Without the future , there can be no past and no past without the future first .

 

Future is +

Past is its NEGative. -

 

present time sits between the 2 where we ( humans ) experiences their sensations. 

 

we feel positive or negative in present time. Or neither just positive nor  just negative , but a balance BETWEEN the duality of polarity .

 

when you read this it will seem like its in present time because the future is instant. ( NO TIME elapses ) but its all , everything and everyone you see comes from the future , through present time and then into the past .

 

when we make plans for the future , the plans we make also come from the future , through present time and then INTO the past . 

 

The future emerges OUTWARDS

The past absorbs the future INWARDS 

 

white is as positive as you can get . Black , its negative half is as negative as you can get 

 

white reflects all colors away from it outwards 360 degrees

black ABSORBS all colors , including white INWARDS

 

its white future , present time and black past 

 

+/-

day /night

white /black 

future / past

reflect / absorb

out / in

MALE/Female

instant / delay

go / stop

 

pos attribute / neg attributes.

 

everything that is positive comes from the future instantly , through PT and finally ends in the past at a dead stop. 

 

Male gender is OUT and females are IN , like a Key + and a lock - Both are located in the center of the body . Male genders sit higher up than females. Males are front top and females are 

 

both are useless without each other .

 

Males genitals are located " front top " females are "rear bottem "

 

The future , present time and the past are a spectrum of light from white to all colors and finally black .

 

we sit stand and live between them in present time . The future is optimistic+ and the past is pessimistic-. 

 

The future has a speed called instant and the past is at a dead stop . Its no wonder so many think there is no future because it happens so fast, they don't perceive any of it until it gets to present time and into its past. The moment we see the future in present time, it too, instantly falls into its past where it can be found from the future . 

 

um, not following all that...but to put it simply i'd say our mind/egos and the trillions of particular selves or forms are only apparent.

[Yang]

get to know your " abc's " called yang /yin aka POSITIVE /Neg and youll soon be forming words, sentences and paragraphs that will facilitate a better understanding of life. 

 

it ALL begins from a single positive invisible source energy without mass or volume and some day it will all end as a negative, cold, stuck  round, black 360 perfectly spherical ball made of the hardest material in existence. 

[silent thunder]

mind thinks

mind believes

mind tells stories

 

center of beingness

release of mind

in raw being

 

sincere mind

quiet mind

kind mind

clarity

bliss

tao

 

[old3bob]

16 minutes ago, Yang said:

get to know your " abc's " called yang /yin aka POSITIVE /Neg and youll soon be forming words, sentences and paragraphs that will facilitate a better understanding of life. 

 

it ALL begins from a single positive invisible source energy without mass or volume and some day it will all end as a negative, cold, stuck  round, black 360 perfectly spherical ball made of the hardest material in existence. 

 

get to know the Hua Hu Ching if you will for it has far different sayings...

[Yang]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 the hua hu ching is  " within yang yin language . Everything is . Yang is as basic as basic gets and yin comes from yang. Yang Yin is not about  "sayings " its about positive and negative attributes. Its not what anyone "says " its what you say . Everything including hua hu ching will resolve USING +/- langage and have no significance at all . It will vanish . 

get to know the Hua Hu Ching if you will for it has far different sayings...

 

[old3bob]

and your misquote of me will disappear after you correct it, right?

 

Btw, yang and yin are not as basic as it gets...so please quit misrepresenting and misinterpreting along those lines.

[dwai]

9 hours ago, old3bob said:

btw, I'd say the false guru and true guru are worlds apart, so to speak.

But are they, really?

Is the false guru bereft of the true guru? 

[old3bob]

truth can see a lie but a lie is blind to truth.... 

[old3bob]

19 hours ago, dwai said:

But are they, really?

Is the false guru bereft of the true guru? 

 

I don't have a problem with your transcendental non-dualistic alluding to,  although I would put it in the context of the Chandogya Upanishad with an excerpt from it listed below...

 

अथ य आत्मा स सेतुर्धृतिरेषां लोकानामसंभेदाय नैतं सेतुमहोरात्रे तरतो न जरा न मृत्युर्न शोको न सुकृतं न दुष्कृतं सर्वे पाप्मानोऽतो निवर्तन्तेऽपहतपाप्मा ह्येष ब्रह्मलोकः ॥ ८.४.१ ॥

 

atha ya ātmā sa seturdhṛtireṣāṃ lokānāmasaṃbhedāya naitaṃ setumahorātre tarato na jarā na mṛtyurna śoko na sukṛtaṃ na duṣkṛtaṃ sarve pāpmāno'to nivartante'pahatapāpmā hyeṣa brahmalokaḥ || 8.4.1 ||

 

1. Next, this Self is like a dam. It supports the worlds and protects them from getting mixed up. Day and night cannot cross over this dam, nor can old age, death, bereavement, good actions, and bad actions. All sins turn away from it, for this Brahmaloka is free from evil.    (thus meaning to me free of false guru)

Edited February 23, 2020 by old3bob

[Bindi]

On 23/02/2020 at 2:41 AM, old3bob said:

 

um, not following all that...but to put it simply i'd say our mind/egos and the trillions of particular selves or forms are only apparent.

To me my mind is not just apparent,  it is in fact just dysfunctional, comprised as it is of my consciousness concerning itself with things it needn’t and shouldn’t be concerning itself with.
 

My consciousness is stuck at this dualistic mind level and thinking it needs to be the boss and organise things on this level until it starts to recognise the role it has been mistakenly playing, and the solution, to just let the dualistic yin/yang mind work within itself in its natural process, which only requires emotional and mental clarity. 
 

Then my consciousness is free to perceive something beyond, the ‘higher Self’, and free to start to identify with that level, and to fulfil its role there. 

[old3bob]

I'd say there are many parts to us, and many dharma's that must be dealt with for those parts, "naturally".  Which is far easier said than done but what else is a soul to do?  We make a claims about our mind but it really belongs to "the mind", which is a connected tool for A-Z.  

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by old3bob

[idiot_stimpy]

Because past and future are but a conceptualization of the mind.

[Bindi]

I don’t get it. Clearly there’s past and future in the plane we live in, something happened yesterday, something else will happen tomorrow, surely that’s indisputable, where is this plane where there is no past or future? The only thing I’ve heard of is some sort of samadhi in which it feels timeless, until consciousness returns to this plane, where time resumes? Is this anything close to what people are referring to as timeless? Some concept of a timeless state, projected as the truth? 

[idiot_stimpy]

 But yesterday is but a memory, and tomorrow an imagination of what could be.