How/why does qigong work?

[Earl Grey]

14 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

 

Does your physical prowess match the level of mental gymnastic abilities deftly displayed in your reply? Boy you make me laugh and yes, you definitely are pissy and sound like you could do with a hug.

 

You and I both know your entire spiel in this thread is a post factum rationalization after viewing a load of people seeing your "Intent—qi follows yi" dictum for the BS it is. I'm not here to spar with you, no doubt you know a thing or two about a thing or two but you're acting mighty vaginal about me wishing to keep my lineage quiet so why not just assume I know nothing and take it from there? If you don't want to reply to my threads, don't. Ignore list me and miss out on all the interesting conversation I'll bring to this site but please, stop acting like a [word removed by system] because then you'll make me treat you like one and I don't really want to do that.

See what you will and distort it as you do, I’m posting totally nonchalantly and without any particular attachment to what you think of me and what I say or whatever you say about me to me. I just participated because I can and I do, whether or not I am a [word removed by system]—though I suspect your first thread we interacted in calling everyone on the forum deluded is a prime example of “it takes one to know one”, and your characterization of me with “BS post-factum rationalizations” does indeed indicate your skill level (or perhaps more appropriately, lack thereof). 
 

Carry on, carry on, my dear ape.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Earl Grey

[alchemystical]

3 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

See what you will and distort it as you do, I’m posting totally nonchalant and without any particular attachment to what you think of me and what I say or whatever you say about me to me. I just participated because I can and I do, whether or not I am a [word removed by system] (though I suspect your first thread we interacted in calling everyone on the forum deluded is a prime example of “it takes one to know one”).

 

Do you realize how transparent you are? Who are you trying to fool? Us or yourself? That's a false choice by the way, they're one and the same.

 

Like I said I'm not here to spar with you, I'd have to lose some brain cells first to level the playing field first otherwise it would be unfair because saying things like "I’m posting totally nonchalant and without any particular attachment" when you said "he is uninterested in sharing them publicly, I can't make any assumptions about him and his history, so I just gave a "feeler" to see how he'd respond" show that you're being dishonest. Even though I called you a slang word for a fetid female orifice it was honest whereas you try and throw childish retorts from the moral high horse you're attempting to ride by stating "it takes one to know one" which are once again in direct contradiction to your posts in that thread.

 

Ask yourself, do I sound like a bullshitter? If yes then you shouldn't try and bullshit one and if no then you change your approach. Thanks to your carrying an agenda from a previous thread around like luggage you've almost derailed what will be an interesting discussion on the underlying aspects of qigong and in that respect aren't that much different from those you rail against on this forum who do the same thing. So I ask again, who are you trying to fool? Us or yourself?

 

Start another thread if you want to continue discussion in this vein or contribute something of worth to this one. Like silence.

 

[liminal_luke]

36 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

 

 you're acting mighty vaginal 

 

Some people like vaginas more than others.  If you´re not a fan, I can´t say I blame you.  Still, genitally speaking, I think Earl Grey would be more accurately described as "cocky."  But that´s neither here nor there.  I´d prefer it if we not use anatomical parts, however beloved or villified, as catch-all negative adjectives for undesirable qualities and behavior.  This being a spiritual forum and all... 

Edited February 23, 2020 by liminal_luke

[alchemystical]

1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Some people like vaginas more than others.  If you´re not a fan, I can´t say I blame you.  Still, genitally speaking, I think Earl Grey´s would be more accurately described as "cocky."  But that´s neither here nor there.  I´d prefer it if we not use anatomical parts, however beloved or villified, as catch-all negative adjectives for undesirable qualities and behavior.  This being a spiritual forum and all... 

 

To act vaginal, as a man, means to be according oneself as a woman with a snarky, passive aggressive commentary instead of being a man and just calling it how it is. 

 

Was this post really necessary? Does it add anything of worth, whatsoever, to the thread and topic? And LOL at the spiritual forum, I've addressed that before and you should be well aware of my thoughts about this place and some of the people that inhabit it.

[blue eyed snake]

32 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

 

To act vaginal, as a man, means to be according oneself as a woman instead of being a man and just calling it how it is. 

 

Was this post really necessary? Does it add anything of worth, whatsoever, to the thread and topic? And LOL at the spiritual forum, I've addressed that before and you should be well aware of my thoughts about this place and some of the people that inhabit it.

 

Looks like your communicating abilities can use some improvement. I remind you that this forum is NOT guys only. There are ladies around who definitely do not act with a snarky, passive aggressive commentary.

so I ask you to curb thy tongue.

[doc benway]

8 hours ago, alchemystical said:

You can wave your arms around randomly and feel nothing yet if you wave them in a certain way you feel a very definite something. Why is this?

 

I appreciate you starting this discussion. I tend to be more focused on the how do I make it work for me  side of things. Less interested in a specific description of the process or mechanism,  be that anatomical, ATP, yi, jing-qi-shen, dan tians, and other conceptual models. I think that in doing the practice, seeing the results, investigating for ourselves, we can trust that the answers will come in time.

 

One aspect is simply the nature of the human body. Specific movements correspond to particular characteristics of the limbs, organs,... resulting in unique effects. That has been worked out over millennia through trial and error, divine guidance, getting out of the way and letting it do itself, however we tend to see the process. Much like the knowledge of indigenous medicine has been worked out  over time.

 

8 hours ago, alchemystical said:

How does this work? It feels like there is a specific order you need to do the moves in almost like turning a key in a lock, most keys will fit but not all can open the door.

It works because of awareness, connection, relationship. Awareness is the key ingredient. An openness that allows us to investigate first hand, with minimal expectation or interference. Of course intent needs to be a part, otherwise we’re sitting on our asses. Awareness connects with the body and breath. That connection needs to be deepened, refined, purified. Standing cultivates this. Quiet sitting refines and deepens and perfects it further.

 

Moving the body and breath and maintaining that depth of connection allows us to reap physical, emotional, psychological, and spiritual benefit (and martial prowess).

 

For me, it’s all about integration with the source. That source is where the healing, fearlessness, knowing, and creativity reside. Everything is already there, we primarily develop our depth, strength, and precision of connection and what we need naturally comes out. 

 

8 hours ago, alchemystical said:

 

Are there any books, resources or insight you can offer as to why this may be the case? I find this aspect almost as fascinating as the practice and so far I haven't encountered anyone who can answer this question.

 

There are lots of good books but for me the answers to why have come in a very personal way mostly through practice, then through checking my experience against credible teachings, and the feedback from my teachers. And my answers may not suit others, but they work for me. We may all look similar waving our arms but the inner process and experience, the understanding and realization are a very personal matter, IMO.

[alchemystical]

3 minutes ago, steve said:

For me, it’s all about integration with the source. That source is where the healing, fearlessness, knowing, and creativity reside. Everything is already there, we primarily develop our depth, strength, and precision of connection and what we need naturally comes out. 

 

 

There are lots of good books but for me the answers to why have come in a very personal way mostly through practice, then through checking my experience against credible teachings, and the feedback from my teachers. And my answers may not suit others, but they work for me. We may all look similar waving our arms but the inner process and experience, the understanding and realization are a very personal matter, IMO.

 

Yes, this is very true as I see transcendence and union as the goal of all paths, varied as they are and however they may dress it up as ultimately that is all we yearn for, whether we realize it or not. Also fully agree about the doing and inner aspects because its all about the experience which in many ways is ineffable but once you know, you know.

 

I'd be interested in any books you wish to share on the topic as I haven't read much on the topic but at this point in my journey my curiosity as to the underlying rhythm and rhyme is quite high so feel free to share if you wish.

[doc benway]

26 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

 

Yes, this is very true as I see transcendence and union as the goal of all paths, varied as they are and however they may dress it up as ultimately that is all we yearn for, whether we realize it or not. Also fully agree about the doing and inner aspects because its all about the experience which in many ways is ineffable but once you know, you know.

 

I'd be interested in any books you wish to share on the topic as I haven't read much on the topic but at this point in my journey my curiosity as to the underlying rhythm and rhyme is quite high so feel free to share if you wish.

 

A few books that have helped me towards my understanding such as it is -

Original Tao by Harold Roth

TaiChi Boxing Chronicle by Kuo Lien Ying

Chen Pan King’s Original Tai Chi Chuan Textbook by Chen Pan Ling

Xing Yi Nei Gong by Miller and Cartmell

Awakening the Sacred Body and Awakening the Luminous Mind by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche 

Tao Te Ching by Hu Xuezhi 

Interestingly, I haven’t come across many books specifically on “qigong” that I care to mention.

[alchemystical]

Very handy, thanks @steve it really is so mindblowing that you can move your body in a certain way and experience totally different states of consciousness. Things like this really make one wonder about existence, the fabric of reality and what it means to be here, now.

 

Even as little as a few decades ago these teachings were highly kept secrets, passed down through generation from time immemorial and here we are with it all literally at our fingertips. Mindblowing. Of course the average person in the street cares not one jot about cultivation because they can't share it for likes and yet that same type of egoic perversion still manages to permeate this lawless corner of the internet, nonetheless, albeit manifesting in a more subtle form.

[Starjumper]

Hi Alchemystical.  I'm still going to write about this situation to answer your question about how moving the arms around in some ways affects your energy.  I see it as a very basic and all important aspect of how chi kung works.  Of course there are many other facets to how chi kung works, and it looks like the discussion may be getting a little out of hand.  The question i'm concerned about is more specifically about the way certain movements accomplish what they do.  In any case, i want to forewarn you that you will probably be disappointed in the answer I'll give in public here.  However, if you are willing to write me a PM introducing yourself and what you are working on, then I'll be happy to give you some hints if you agree not to share them on the forum, and let me know ... are you a book writer?  = )

Edited February 23, 2020 by Starjumper

[alchemystical]

1 minute ago, Starjumper said:

Hi Alchemystical.  I'm still going to write about this situation to answer your question about how moving the arms around in some ways affects your energy.  I see it as a very basic and all important aspect of how chi kung works.  Of course there are many other facets to how chi kung works, and it looks like it may be getting a little out of hand.  The question i'm concerned about is more specifically about the way certain movements accomplish what they do.  In any case, i want to forewarn you that you will probably be disappointed in the answer I'll give in public here.  However, if you are willing to write me a PM introducing yourself and what you are working on, then I'll be happy to give you some hints if you agree not to share them on the forum, and let me know ... are you a book writer?  = )

 

Do you see that folks? Thats how you word a pitch. Do you work in sales? If not, you should. You could be the Starjumper of Wall Street

 

I find this whole fascination with me quite amusing and if you intend to hold the real answer "hostage" then please don't share the public answer either. Keep both of them, sit on them for a while and see if they hatch into something worthwhile that will help fellow travelers along the way and then ask that quiet part of yourself if that insight is worth sharing and do what it says. 

 

Why does my lineage matter? Why does my practice matter? Why does any of it beyond what I choose to do? Have you ever considered that I don't want anyones cheerleading about my path nor am I concerned about their naysaying either? What if I'm just an element of you that is here to prod you out of your torpor and break up the miasma that surrounds this once vital community in its current state of disrepair? What then?

[Starjumper]

 

Quote

I find this whole fascination with me quite amusing.  Why does my lineage matter? Why does my practice matter? Why does any of it beyond what I choose to do? Have you ever considered that I don't want anyones cheerleading about my path nor am I concerned about their naysaying either? What if I'm just an element of you that is here to prod you out of your torpor and break up the miasma that surrounds this once vital community in its current state of disrepair? What then?

 

You misunderstood, Grasshopper, sorry to have confused you, I have no fascination with you or your lineage, although I did fantasize that you were a cute lady due to your screen name.  It's just that I won't share information with an unknown with no name, no face, and no story.  I was interested in things like what kind of chi kung you do, but more than that, I was curious to know if you teach, and if you do what it is you teach.  Also something important is if you do teach, do you just share with a couple of friends in your garage, or you are some kind of globe trotting money grubber.  That would influence what kind of hints I would be willing to give.

 

In any case, that door is closed now.

 

Quote

If you intend to hold the real answer "hostage" then please don't share the public answer either. Keep both of them, sit on them for a while and see if they hatch into something worthwhile that will help fellow travelers along the way and then ask that quiet part of yourself if that insight is worth sharing and do what it says. 

 

We shall see.  I'm so naive I actually thought you wanted an answer to your question.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Starjumper

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, alchemystical said:

Very handy, thanks @steve it really is so mindblowing that you can move your body in a certain way and experience totally different states of consciousness. Things like this really make one wonder about existence, the fabric of reality and what it means to be here, now.

Pretty much why I included Awakening the Luminous Mind on the list.

 

Quote

 

Even as little as a few decades ago these teachings were highly kept secrets, passed down through generation from time immemorial and here we are with it all literally at our fingertips. Mindblowing.

I’ve had times when I’ve been emotionally overwhelmed by my good fortune in meeting my teachers and connecting to the Dao and Bön lineages.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by steve

[Earl Grey]

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Do you realize how transparent you are?

 

With all your talk about vaginas and such, I can't help it given that you were undressing me with your eye. 

 

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Who are you trying to fool?

 

"Talk sense to a fool and he will call you foolish." - Euripides

 

Looks like you did a good job being a fool according to the great playwright.

 

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Us or yourself? That's a false choice by the way, they're one and the same.

 

If that were the case, then it's truly mental masturbation, but I'd rather be the guy in a La-Z-Boy instead of the gimp in leather that you are acting like right now, just absent a whip with all your bossiness and ordering people around about how to respond and where to post. 

 

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Like I said I'm not here to spar with you

 

Nor am I, but you're displaying some rather dedicated effort to waving your fists up and down as though you were gripping a cylinder-like object. 

 

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

I'd have to lose some brain cells first to level the playing field first

 

You so far haven't shown you ever had any in the first place.

 

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

otherwise it would be unfair

 

So says the guy whining about everyone being deluded as though he isn't joining in on all the fun with how certain he is. 

 

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

because saying things like "I’m posting totally nonchalant and without any particular attachment" when you said "he is uninterested in sharing them publicly, I can't make any assumptions about him and his history, so I just gave a "feeler" to see how he'd respond" show that you're being dishonest

 

And it also shows that I know which buttons to press to stimulate you like the pair of vibrating panties you're wearing....

 

Except it's a lot more fun since it's annoying the hell out of you.  

 

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Even though I called you a slang word for a fetid female orifice it was honest

 

And it shows you're certainly not getting any, hence the obsession with it, but alas:  while you're quite dickish here for calling me things of vaginal nature, I take that as no offense because after all: you are what you eat! 

 

And apparently you are quite deprived of that phallic delight and thus act appropriately by opening your mouth wide in the hopes of someone filling that emptiness in your gaping maw and all the way down your throat. 

 

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

whereas you try and throw childish retorts from the moral high horse you're attempting to ride

 

I'm only riding the high horse because it keeps sickos like you from fulfilling your obsessions, Alan Strang. 

 

3 hours ago, alchemystical said:

by stating "it takes one to know one"

 

Horses and mules make asses, but I am proud of being a jackass while enjoying the process of letting you be a dumbass.

 

4 hours ago, alchemystical said:

which are once again in direct contradiction to your posts in that thread.

 

Or a direct example of your poor comprehension skills. 

 

4 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Ask yourself, do I sound like a bullshitter? If yes then you shouldn't try and bullshit one

 

I am bullshitting, my beloved Europa, because it is your own perverse fantasy, after all.

 

4 hours ago, alchemystical said:

and if no then you change your approach.

 

'Tis not necessary because it is the manner by which you are most comfortable with communicating yourself as a sanctimonious turd of the elephant shit variety.

 

4 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Thanks to your carrying an agenda from a previous thread around like luggage you've almost derailed what will be an interesting discussion on the underlying aspects of qigong and in that respect aren't that much different from those you rail against on this forum who do the same thing

 

I carried no such agenda because I am not even thinking of you between threads--you asked how qigong works and I respond directly the same way to everyone whom I don't know as each qigong system works differently and I make no assumptions before giving opinions.

 

A doctor does not diagnose someone who does not disclose their symptoms fully, and you appear to need a proctologist to satisfy your desire with how you have conducted yourself in this thread.

 

4 hours ago, alchemystical said:

So I ask again, who are you trying to fool? Us or yourself?

 

Spare us, oh Grand Inquisitor, we know nothing, no matter how much you threaten us. 

 

 

4 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Start another thread if you want to continue discussion in this vein or contribute something of worth to this one. Like silence.

 

I answered as appropriately relevant to the topic and respond appropriately to how I am addressed by following the rule of reciprocity, my dear recalcitrant child. 

[JohnC]

15 hours ago, alchemystical said:

You can wave your arms around randomly and feel nothing yet if you wave them in a certain way you feel a very definite something. Why is this? How does this work? It feels like there is a specific order you need to do the moves in almost like turning a key in a lock, most keys will fit but not all can open the door.

 

Are there any books, resources or insight you can offer as to why this may be the case? I find this aspect almost as fascinating as the practice and so far I haven't encountered anyone who can answer this question.

 

The simplest reason is that, living in itself is spiritual and a miracle. We lose sight of that by it becoming 'normal' and taking living for granted.

 

Waving your arms around in certain sequences creates focuses and focal points for the energy that is already moving through and around us.

 

There are also assisted systems that other beings assist the lineages with, like Quan yin, etc. These are benevolent beings that are supporting the growth and happiness of the universe.

 

You can read things, but the best way to find out is to practice and instead of learning ideas, develop and know wisdom.

 

Having ideas in your head is completely different that experiencing the wisdom with your body.

 

Johnc

[qofq]

10 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Spoke to a few masters and none of them could answer my questions either because they'd just done what they were told, never questioned therefore never learned and that in my eyes means they short changed themselves.

 

What makes you think anyone with any serious skill would be obliged to just spoon feed you?  

 

In my experience this information is usually hard won.  It seemed during my training (with both a longmen priest and Hun Yuan disciple;  What is your connection to a lineage might I ask in return?) that most every question I had was answered nonverbally and just outside of my conscious awareness (hard to explain, but usually like a physical hint, or non sequitur  joke that was to everyone else in class seemingly off topic) and required me to transform said awareness or keep disciplined in my training to eventually figure it out as if on my own, though knowing that the answer was given months (sometimes years) ago.  

 

requests like yours combined with the tone/energy that you put forth would have left you out in the cold with all of the high level practitioners I've had the extreme blessing of meeting, so it makes sense to me that you've never met anyone who would expound on these topics.  

 

[mrpasserby]

59 minutes ago, qofq said:

In my experience this information is usually hard won.  It seemed during my training (with both a longmen priest and Hun Yuan disciple;  What is your connection to a lineage might I ask in return?) that most every question I had was answered nonverbally and just outside of my conscious awareness (hard to explain, but usually like a physical hint, or non sequitur  joke that was to everyone else in class seemingly off topic) and required me to transform said awareness or keep disciplined in my training to eventually figure it out as if on my own, though knowing that the answer was given months (sometimes years) ago. 

I have enjoyed the extreme cultivation provided by this no nonsense thread about qigong, and I kept quiet as requested because of my similar yet different skill set.

I needed to make a supporting comment about non verbal communication, which relates to receiving higher level skills as you qpfq have stated above. in my experience: It is just the way that it is done.

[Earl Grey]

Three of us (me, Starjumper, qofq) asked what the OP practices not out of any personal claim but simple curiosity and relevance to understanding where he is coming from and why he asks what he does so that we can answer appropriately, and the OP kills the conversation with his extremely demanding entitlement and rudeness. Not much room for exchange here with him... 

 

 

but a good topic for the rest of us at least!

 

A reminder: not all systems are the same, and not all bodies function the same--basic principles of health and TCM especially. A person can learn the same thing as three others and yield both similar and dissimilar results, so how it works is relative to a variety of factors from the system itself to the individual practicing and how deep their practice is. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Earl Grey

[ralis]

I learned and have well understood that energetic practices are not about some mythical internal plumbing. Unless the entire body mind is included without limit, then there will always be questions, analysis and confusion. Reductionist belief systems always wind up at a dead end!

[rideforever]

How Qigong works is a wide question.

It could mean ... what is qi ?  How does qi circulation help the body ?  How do particular qigong methods help, and help with what?  And so on.  There are many things called qigong.

[alchemystical]

 

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

 

The simplest reason is that, living in itself is spiritual and a miracle. We lose sight of that by it becoming 'normal' and taking living for granted.

 

Waving your arms around in certain sequences creates focuses and focal points for the energy that is already moving through and around us.

 

There are also assisted systems that other beings assist the lineages with, like Quan yin, etc. These are benevolent beings that are supporting the growth and happiness of the universe.

 

You can read things, but the best way to find out is to practice and instead of learning ideas, develop and know wisdom.

 

Having ideas in your head is completely different that experiencing the wisdom with your body.

 

Johnc

This is an excellent perspective, really like the miracle aspect and it does make a lot of sense and leaves me with a renewed sense of appreciation. Thanks

 

 

57 minutes ago, ralis said:

I learned and have well understood that energetic practices are not about some mythical internal plumbing. Unless the entire body mind is included without limit, then there will always be questions, analysis and confusion. Reductionist belief systems always wind up at a dead end!

Yes, I agree. The reductionism that plagues the world is so myopic in its perspective that its no surprise it never hits the target with its gross over simplification as the subtle aspects are where the detail lies. With so much fakery in the world of internal arts and a lot of the woo woo that goes along with it however, not to mention rampant egos and the rest so you can't really blame them for not wishing to delve deeper in that respect but I do feel that genuine scientific research into the entire field of qigong, its mechanisms, actions etc... would pay such huge dividends for the human race because ultimately the current scientific method is to (attempt to) remove self entirely from the picture and then wonder why they ended up with a distorted image.

 

Veering slightly off topic, consciousness and its primacy is something that once finally grasped will allow so many staid fields of human endeavor to seemingly take quantum leaps overnight because that is the way people thought back in the days and look at what they achieved whereas our drive is external, currently fixated on technology which ultimately is just the extension of our senses via mechanical ends, with most people having very sparse inner worlds and very little in the way of insight into the currents swirling underneath.

 

1 minute ago, rideforever said:

How Qigong works is a wide question.

It could mean ... what is qi ?  How does qi circulation help the body ?  How do particular qigong methods help, and help with what?  And so on.  There are many things called qigong.

 

The larger the net and wider its cast the more fish one can catch, as well as the occasional bits of flotsam and jetsam that swim in the stream but dealing with it all is the job of the fisherman. The question was broad on purpose, to encompass all of this realm so we could collectively shine the light of our individual wisdom across the field and see what we may learn. As I said above, a scientific research approach, with the practitioner as experimenter, would be most interesting but until that occurs one must stir the stagnant  waters of places such as these and find the leads to what one seeks.

 

^{I wonder who gets it. My posts contain a test for the minds optics.}

 

 

[qofq]

I love the ignore list feature of this forum.

[Starjumper]

8 hours ago, qofq said:

 

What makes you think anyone with any serious skill would be obliged to just spoon feed you?  

 

In my experience this information is usually hard won.  It seemed during my training (with both a longmen priest and Hun Yuan disciple;  What is your connection to a lineage might I ask in return?) that most every question I had was answered nonverbally and just outside of my conscious awareness (hard to explain, but usually like a physical hint, or non sequitur  joke that was to everyone else in class seemingly off topic) and required me to transform said awareness or keep disciplined in my training to eventually figure it out as if on my own, though knowing that the answer was given months (sometimes years) ago.  

 

requests like yours combined with the tone/energy that you put forth would have left you out in the cold with all of the high level practitioners I've had the extreme blessing of meeting, so it makes sense to me that you've never met anyone who would expound on these topics.  

 

I have had similar experience, and know the feeling.  Luckily the guy revealed his true nature and saved me from giving anything away.  I can see he prefers new age fairyland bullshit, so that's great, let him continue to roll around in that with his like minded fellows.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Starjumper

[rideforever]

I don't understand what people see in these "secrets".

Self-realisations comes most often from sitting meditation and it is not hard to find schools which are responsible custodians of various techniques like Goenka, Zen or Satyananda.  If you commit to one of these you will make good progress.  Another way is to find an awakened teacher who will teach you and also give you some form of transmission; they are not too difficult to find but maybe this is for more adept or serious practitioners.  These teachers require much more from you.

There are energetic paths like kundalini, and they are fine for people who cannot take a direct road, they are an additional opportunity.

So where are the secrets ?
If someone can give you a secret that means it is not from your own self-development and so of limited value.  Anyone with light will give help you and give you what they can with no problem ... there are not that many serious students anyway.

In the energy strata of life there are many "secrets", countless but what is the good of them.  They are not spiritual.   They are just ways to make some energy effect happen through all sorts of bodily or breathing or whatever technique.  Yes they are real, but they are not spiritual.

I have seen some qigong teachers who smile too much.. and they do various practices, promising much magic ... they have the wrong idea about the path.  Others talk about all sorts of energies and power ... I don't see any connection to spirituality with them.  Your own death is coming, defeating other human-monkeys is not going to help.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by rideforever

[rideforever]

Another interesting thing about energy tricks; I have seen some that relate to certain alignments and movements you can make that cause large volumes of qi to flow through the body.  It is unclear to me whether you destroy your energy system by doing this, or whether it is okay.  I think it is naive to imagine such drastic re-routings of energy is going to be just fine with the rest of your energy system.  Other people send different kinds of energy repeatedly out of the crown, also a questionable practice.  And there are many breathing methods that damage something very valuable which is your natural breathing; I think that one is quite well known as many teachers have warned against it.

One strange thing about human culture is that it is unintelligent people who are left to do spirituality and energy work, because intelligent people simply get jobs and have families.  That is one reason why spiritual techniques are so unclear.

Basically unintelligent people compensate for their lack of contact with the path .. with a sort of compensation of a big energy effects.  But that's not the path.  Even in real energy based spiritual paths, it's not a trick, but an honest cultivation and development.

Edited February 24, 2020 by rideforever