Zork Posted April 27, 2020 On 4/19/2020 at 9:23 PM, freeform said: An exceptionally clear talk about YJJ What he says is that most YJJ that is taught today isn't YJJ. Are you referring to practices that change the muscles/tendons that are incorporated in some systems but are not part of the set of 12 exercises which is presented today as "moving YJJ"? That would make all YJJ videos worthless except as stretching exercises. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted April 27, 2020 9 hours ago, Zork said: That would make all YJJ videos worthless except as stretching exercises. That is sadly the case. Although worthless would be a bit extreme. It's just gentle stretching and has little to do with authentic YJJ. 9 hours ago, Zork said: Are you referring to practices that change the muscles/tendons that are incorporated in some systems but are not part of the set of 12 exercises which is presented today as "moving YJJ"? I might be misunderstanding the question here. There's LOADS of things called YJJ - in 98% of the cases they have nothing to do with 'real' YJJ - they're just stretching routines devised by Chinese sports universities designed to popularise the 'disneyfication' of traditional chinese culture (for example most Wushu). 'Looks' cool... possibly good for health (although overstretching, knee, hip and ankle problems are very common in wushu)... but certainly no better than jogging or dancing... (in fact dancing is probably far superior!) Some external Shaolin kungfu is excellent though (generally not the 'popular' stuff)... if stances look super low, super wide super spread out and like a fancy kungfu movie - then it's for show, not for inner development. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted April 27, 2020 (edited) For example: ^ That is not Taiji - there is nothing internal going on. Notice the low stances - the graceful movements and the fancy silk pyjamas (that's usually a dead giveaway). (Edit) I don't want to imply that there is no skill in this sort of performance - it takes a lot of strenght and practice to get things looking so smooth and graceful - but this is not Taiji Chuan - no internal mechanics whatsoever. It's just a nicely coreographed, and fluidly performed movement. ^ That shows some real internal Taiji - doesn't look deep, strong, wide or particularly graceful... in fact doesn't look like much on the outside - because most of the movement, most of the power is coming from the inside. The body mechanics work on completely different principles - that's why you can't detect how the power is being generated. And here's what that internal development does on contact: The power is hidden - it's not coming through obvious mechanical actions. To the majority of people, this looks fake - because they don't see what is happening (which is by design!). Once you've touched hands with a person with this level of skill, then it's beyond any doubt - to even the most sceptical person - that there's something to these 'internal' arts. Edited April 27, 2020 by freeform 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zork Posted April 27, 2020 1 hour ago, freeform said: I might be misunderstanding the question here. There's LOADS of things called YJJ I mean that YJJ might be a part of something not known by that name. Like say a version of the 8 piece brocades or the 18 lohan. The basic stances of YJJ are recorded (supposedly) but the transitions or possible movements aren't. So in theory the stances that people use on what they call YJJ is correct but nothing more than that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted April 27, 2020 39 minutes ago, Zork said: I mean that YJJ might be a part of something not known by that name. Like say a version of the 8 piece brocades or the 18 lohan. Oh I see - yes totally. In fact, it's used (or should be) as an underlying fundamental to all 'internal' arts - YJJ is what makes these arts internal. 40 minutes ago, Zork said: The basic stances of YJJ are recorded (supposedly) but the transitions or possible movements aren't. So in theory the stances that people use on what they call YJJ is correct but nothing more than that. I'm not a historical scholar - but as far as I understand, there are no forms, exercises or postures called YJJ (originally, at least). These are just principles that are applied to all the internal arts - from taiji, to qigong and neigong. This becomes clearer once you feel it in your body... you can drink tea using YJJ principles - you can itch your nose using YJJ principles etc It's just a way of retraining your body to use a different way of creating movement... and it's done by taking the source of your movement away from the major muscles and bones that work like levers and pulleys to a different 'engine' which is more akin to lines of connective tissues expanding, releasing and stretching inside. So if I was to drink tea using YJJ principles - firstly it would take ages, and be hugely inefficient... the whole of my body would be involved in bringing the cup to my mouth. It would be hard work. Secondly, there would be no contraction... my muscles wouldn't contract and pull my arm bones in the manner of a lever - the action would be more like a kind of stretch moving through my entire body rather than a contraction. And lastly - because there is no contraction, my body would always be 'connected' and 'open' and able to move qi. Which is not really possible (to any great extent) when muscles are engaged. The best way to train your body to develop the YJJ properties in one's body is generally through standing rather than moving exercises. But it's hard and it's quite painful 4 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
