What are the oldest Chinese Taoist myths?

[ReturnDragon]

Neidan(内丹), internal refinery process or internal pill

This is the original Chinese Taoist definition of Neidan(内丹)
内丹是以阴阳变化丶天人合一思想为指导，
以人体为鼎炉，精气神为药物，
注重周天火候炼药，而在体内凝练结丹的修习

The internal refinery process is based on the yi-yang transformation. It is a notion of integration of human and nature as a guidance. It used the body as a cauldron, 精气神(jing-chi-shen) as the medical ingredients. It was devoted in using the cosmic orbit procedure for the refinement with the right temperature. Thus it is a practice which was done inside the body, virtually, to make the pill.
 

Edited February 26, 2020 by ReturnDragon

[Limahong]

10 hours ago, ReturnDragon said:

... no body listens is because they have already made up their minds.

 

9 hours ago, steve said:

Have you ever noticed this quality in yourself?

 

Subject closed?

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, Limahong said:

 

 

Subject closed?

 

As far as my involvement, yes.

[ReturnDragon]

氣沈丹田
Sink chi to dantien

It has two interpretations, most people translated as:
1. Sink the energy to the dantien
The notion was breathe energy from the air and sunken it down to the belly. 

Some interpreted as:
2. Sink the breath to the dantien.
This notion was when someone took a deep breath with the belly fully expanded.

Notion no. 1 seems like a myth. It is because how do we know that we are breathing energy from this air? We are actually breathing oxygen and other impurities in the air.

Notion no. 2 is more realistic. That is exactly what is happening when we take a deep breath. The belly is fully expanded. It gives us a feeling like the breath was really deep into the belly. That is why sometimes, it was referred as belly breathing. Do we actually breathe with the belly. Of course not, it is only a description of the feeling for deep breathing.

We do feel the energy in the body, but it is not from the air. It is the energy that was generated from the muscle cells. For those who are interested, one might find that cell respiration is a very interesting subject.

[ReturnDragon]

2 hours ago, ReturnDragon said:

Some interpreted as:
2. Sink the breath to the dantien.
This notion was when someone took a deep breath with the belly fully expanded.

Some people thought this is a myth; and they don't believe that special breathing technique has anything to do with Qigong or Taiji. After few years of practice, they were still wondering why wasn't there any biological nor physiological change in the body. For those who do believe it is not a myth. They have already felt the changes in few months. Such as, the breathing is deeper than before, balance better by reacting quicker to a fall. FYI This was just happened last week after class. I was very pleased to hear that from a lady, in the senior center, where I had taught Taiji for 5 to 6 years.

Another lady with a back pain is a fast learner, she remembers the moves by seeing them few times. She was only attended the class for few months and told me that she can move her back much better now. Some of the back pain are gone.

I had taught all the seniors how to breathe during the Taiji movements. I was surprised they are well balanced standing with one leg for few seconds. Their body weren't even moved nor tilted but steady as a rock.

BTW The people in the class come and go. Sorry to say, the some people didn't follow the breathing advice had lost interest and left.

Edited February 24, 2020 by ReturnDragon

[ReturnDragon]

On 2/23/2020 at 6:58 PM, Starjumper said:

  On 2/23/2020 at 1:03 PM, ReturnDragon said:

So, I might conclude that one cannot deny Qigong is not all about breathing.

 

On 2/23/2020 at 6:58 PM, Starjumper said:

I deny it.

So, I am really enlightened.

The ancient version of Qigong is to breathe energy from the air; and
The modern version of Qigong has nothing to do with deep breathing.

How did I get into this kind of predicament? No wonder I couldn't find a good teacher. Perhaps I go find a good master to repeat the same thing for me.

[Earl Grey]

5 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

So, I am really enlightened.

 

 

6 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

The ancient version of Qigong is to breathe energy from the air; and
The modern version of Qigong has nothing to do with deep breathing.

 

FALSE DICHOTOMY!!! TOTALLY UNTRUE!!!

 

6 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

How did I get into this kind of predicament?

 

You make up things and actually believe them!

 

7 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

No wonder I couldn't find a good teacher.

 

That's right: because you don't listen to anyone who actually knows what they are talking about, and those who do are aware that you just want them to endorse your fake and unsubstantiated claims!

 

8 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

Perhaps I go find a good master to repeat the same thing for me.

 

Perhaps you'll try to convince people that smoking cigarettes is healthy for you, too.

 

[Starjumper]

19 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

The ancient version of Qigong is to breathe energy from the air.

 

This is partly correct in a way, but incorrect in the way you are thinking about it.  

 

Someone hid the salami.

 

19 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

The modern version of Qigong has nothing to do with deep breathing.

 

This is partly correct in a way, but incorrect in other ways.  

 

This is due to the fact that many people who are teaching did not find the salami, didn't even look, actually.  The sages say:  "Look for what is hidden".

 

19 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

How did I get into this kind of predicament? No wonder I couldn't find a good teacher. Perhaps I go find a good master to repeat the same thing for me.

 

Maybe instead of that you can find a master who isn't a fundamentalist book worm.

[ReturnDragon]

2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Maybe instead of that you can find a master who isn't a fundamentalist book worm.

I am wondering did the masters write those books.  I am seeing lots of TDB bought lots of books. How do they understand them is a different story.
 

5 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

This is due to the fact that many people who are teaching did not find the salami, didn't even look, actually.  The sages say:  "Look for what is hidden".

One can find the salami by the sense of smell if sensitive enough. What is hidden do not need to look for. It can be known by self intuition.

[ilumairen]

 

1 minute ago, ReturnDragon said:

One can find the salami by the sense of smell if sensitive enough. What is hidden do not need to look for. It can be known by self intuition.

 

Then why do you refer to sinking "breath" as what happens when the abdomen expands on the inhale, instead of something deeper and more subtle?

[silent thunder]

8 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Someone hid the salami.

 

11 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

the fact that many people who are teaching did not find the salami

 

11 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Maybe instead of that you can find a master who isn't a fundamentalist book worm.

I'm down with Salami...  Did someone say Salami?!

[ReturnDragon]

1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

Then why do you refer to sinking "breath" as what happens when the abdomen expands on the inhale, instead of something deeper and more subtle?

Good question!
I didn't say that. It was said by the ancient Taoist: 氣沉丹田 (Sink chi to the Dantien).

The original ancient expression was used by the Taoist to describe when the abdomen expands on the inhale. It gives one the feeling that the breath was down deep in the belly(dantien).

If it was interpreted other wise, sorry to say, all the related interpretations and practices become invalid.
 

Edited February 25, 2020 by ReturnDragon

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, ReturnDragon said:

I am wondering did the masters write those books.

 

Some masters write books, and I expect that the more advanced ones rarely write books, or if they did, they cleverly hid he salami inside the book itself

 

Quote

I am seeing lots of TDB bought lots of books. How do they understand them is a different story.

 

That reminds me of a saying I heard recently "A pig with a load of chi kung books and/or videos is still a pig"  It appears that a lot of bums are reading a lot of books, which would explain the absolutely hilarious things they say.  I myself don't read books about chi kung methods since I found the salami, and I hardly read any before that, either.

 

Quote

One can find the salami by the sense of smell if sensitive enough.

 

Not if the salami is hidden too far away.

 

Quote

What is hidden do not need to look for. It can be known by self intuition.

 

Really, how has that worked for you?  In any case, I didn't know you were interested in finding the hidden salami.  Actually that saying "Look for what is hidden" is something sages only share with promising students, so I'm a bad boy for not having hidden that salami here.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

2 hours ago, ReturnDragon said:

The ancient version of Qigong is to breathe energy from the air.

 

OK, Dragon, I'll tell you about some of the facts of life.

 

Chi and air are/were the same word in Chinese because in ancient times people did not know anatomy, and the feeling of chi moving in the body is similar to the feeling of air moving in the throat or on the skin, they didn't know that the air stopped at the limit of the lungs.

 

The term 'breathing in chi', therefore, should be taken lightly, because it does not really mean breathing with the lungs, or even using the lungs at all.  This is not to say that there are not breathing practices, because there are.  These are two different, and normally separate, methods.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Starjumper

[rideforever]

11 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

I found the salami,

 

What is it that you found ?
I notice, if you don't mind me saying so, that your hair is white; this seems to indicate that what you are doing is not preventing the process of aging.

You mentioned that you have learnt several ways to hurt people.  Is that what you mean?

[Starjumper]

8 minutes ago, rideforever said:

What is it that you found ?
I notice, if you don't mind me saying so, that your hair is white; this seems to indicate that what you are doing is not preventing the process of aging.

You mentioned that you have learnt several ways to hurt people.  Is that what you mean?

 

Maybe it was wrong of me to call you a fucking idiot in the other thread.  It could be something else.  Are you senile, on drugs, drunk, or have a bad ego problem?

[Starjumper]

2 hours ago, Starjumper said:

many people who are teaching did not find the salami, didn't even look, actually.

 

I had a realization about that, it's because they don't know about the existence of the salami.

[rideforever]

3 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Maybe it was wrong of me to call you a fucking idiot in the other thread.

 

Once upon a time I had to chose between several teachers of Dayan, it quite difficult but I ended up choosing the one who still hard dark hair, and she was also a good natured person. 

I thought because of these things she might have a lot to offer.

 

You say frequently that you have found something.

What is it ?

You seem to have white  hair, correct me if I am wrong.

You are certainly not very friendly, but okay.

And you say you have developed powerful techniques to kill people or something.

Is that what you mean ... when you say you found the salami ?

[Starjumper]

1 minute ago, rideforever said:

Once upon a time I had to chose between several teachers of Dayan, it quite difficult but I ended up choosing the one who still hard dark hair, and she was also a good natured person. 

I thought because of these things she might have a lot to offer.

 

You say frequently that you have found something.

What is it ?

You seem to have white  hair, correct me if I am wrong.

You are certainly not very friendly, but okay.

And you say you have developed powerful techniques to kill people or something.

Is that what you mean ... when you say you found the salami ?

 

Maybe it's just a low IQ?  It's simply not right to tease people with low IQ.

[ReturnDragon]

30 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

OK, Dragon, I'll tell you about some of the facts of life.

 

Chi and air are/were the same word in Chinese because in ancient times people did not know anatomy, and the feeling of chi moving in the body is similar to the feeling of air moving in the throat or on the skin, they didn't know that the air stopped at the limit of the lungs.

 

The term 'breathing in chi', therefore, should be taken lightly, because it does not really mean breathing with the lungs, or even using the lungs at all.  This is not to say that there are not breathing practices, because there are.  These are two different, and normally separate, methods.

 

I speak Chinese all my life. It is all over the net and books. Don't you think I knew this already. Chi has multi meaning more than ever you have known.

Did you say you are an Engineer too? I am glad that you are talking sense like one!
 

Edited February 25, 2020 by ReturnDragon

[rideforever]

@Starjumper

 

How many years have you been talking about your book?  2 ... 3 ?

You keep wondering how little you can put in it to the "undeserving".

It's a really big question.

Meanwhile in the real world there are people all over this planet breaking their backs to give as much as possible to help the people on this planet.

So you keep wondering ...

If all you have is killing techniques maybe it has little value.

Mankind already knows how to kill plenty.

[Starjumper]

2 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

Don't you think I knew this already.

 

The way you have been writing about breathing and chi kung implies that you did not know about it.  I'm so happy that you do know about it and were just trying to hide the salami.

[Starjumper]

5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Meanwhile in the real world there are people all over this planet breaking their backs to give as much as possible to help the people on this planet.

 

I prefer animals over people.

 

Therefore.

 

It is my sincere wish that 99% of the people on the planet curl up and die ASAP, and sometimes my wishes come true.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Starjumper

[rideforever]

10 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

It is my sincere wish that 99% of the people on the planet curl up and die ASAP, and sometimes my wishes come true.

 

I am sure many people like that from time to time.

Anyway.

Edited February 25, 2020 by rideforever

[ReturnDragon]

3 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

It is my sincere wish that 99% of the people on the planet curl up and die ASAP, and sometimes my wishes come true.

Are you suggesting that we should stop practice Taiji and Qigong to prolong life?