Ego

[alchemystical]

If you had to blame anything for whats wrong with everything why then you'd be pointing at the stage yelling "Its behind you!" to the befuddled actor, draped in robes reciting lines in this masquerade of life as he stumbled around, seemingly unaware of the egos nefarious presence and influence. Its such a strange thing. Everywhere and nowhere.

 

Seeing as one of the great signposts on the path is the meeting, acceptance and dissolution of the ego I'd be interested in hearing from any of you have have wandered along this far or beyond as well as any general tales, insight, wisdom, techniques and whatever else may relate to the topic because I feel this could be a very fruitful discussion.

 

Why do we have an ego in the first place? What is its purpose? Will this be on the test?

[Earl Grey]

The ego is a butler that serves the Self, but the ego likes to whisper in your ear and make you believe that you are Batman, out to avenge past wrongdoings again and again no matter how silly you are for being a grown adult dressed up as an animal beating up other people who act equally silly.

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

 "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

 

[alchemystical]

27 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

 

This is a surprisingly common thought in regards to the ego as so many people are aware of the parallels between the adversary and the traits of the ego but few take it any further to its logical conclusion nor fully grasp its implications. If anything one must applaud the ego for how slippery and elusive it really is because all the way from the plebeian to the adept and all points in between it holds so many firmly within its grasp and thrall.

 

You've actually inspired my thinking in a phenomenal way with your presence stimpy, thank you.

[idiot_stimpy]

Quote

If you're afraid of dying, and you're holdin' on, you'll see devils tearin' your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freein' you from the world. It all depends on how you look at it.

 

- Jacobs Ladder (The Movie)

 

[idiot_stimpy]

If man is the microcosm,

and the universe is the macrocosm,

the ego is the imperfect creator of the microcosm,

the demiurge the imperfect creator of the macrocosm.

 

The archons are no more than instruments of demiurgus control,

so following the inside is a reflection of the outside,

if one overcomes the ego,

one overcomes the creator and is free. 

[alchemystical]

12 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

If you're afraid of dying, and you're holdin' on, you'll see devils tearin' your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freein' you from the world. It all depends on how you look at it.

 

- Jacobs Ladder (The Movie)

 

 

I'm unfamiliar with that movie but that quote was enough to get me to check it out, thanks.

 

1 minute ago, idiot_stimpy said:

If man is the microcosm,

and the universe is the macrocosm,

the ego is the imperfect creator of the microcosm,

the demiurge the imperfect creator of the macrocosm.

 

The archons are no more than instruments of demiurgus control,

so following the inside is a reflection of the outside,

if one overcomes the ego,

one overcomes the creator and is free. 

 

OK, now this is very interesting. Do you subscribe to this ideology or did you share this to stimulate discussion? I'm not well versed on the ins and outs of Gnosticism but what you've said is quite intriguing so if you'd like to speak on this in more depth I'd be happy to listen and comment.

[idiot_stimpy]

20 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

Do you subscribe to this ideology or did you share this to stimulate discussion?

 

I think its an interesting perspective. 

 

There is another perspective that the ego is the creator of form, operating on the level of mind. The ego is personal, however going deeper within, we find a vast impersonal space whereby all form is born and all form dies.

[alchemystical]

1 minute ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

I think its an interesting perspective. 

 

There is another perspective that the ego is the creator of form, operating on the level of mind. The ego is personal, however going deeper within, we find a vast impersonal space whereby all form is born and all form dies.

Yes, that is closer to my own viewpoint. Much of what we call society and all of technology stems primarily from the ego with its externalized drive as this reflects its inner nature of I and Them which allows malleability, manipulation and modification of both inner and outer worlds with all that implies.

 

Its an essential part of the puzzle for sure and may just be the key to unlock it all but its rarely faced, comprehended or used in its most beneficial way and as such it runs amok wherever it can these days.

 

Has anyone on here experienced ego death? If so, how was it? Contrast the before and after please. Did it make a resurgence after licking its wounds for a while? How does life differ with your new awareness of its processes?

[rideforever]

It has to do with the development of the neocortex in the brain, this recent stage of evolution. 

On this earth and in this universe evolution is done in terms of survival ... each individual and species is a type of "solution" to life, and it tests itself, if it is a bad solution it dies.  Each individual is information ... gradually the information and knowledge of the universe grows through this survival through the corporeal world.

Here, our survival against threats that we see ... is improved by planning and thinking that seems to be the function of the neocortex.  It has given us many benefits, but also gives rise to many problems.

This structure gives rise to false insecure notions of life and misdirected effort; but the underlying structure itself is good.

The added intelligence this structure provides humans may be harnessed to become enlightened.

Most people feel much better to simply return to the subconscious mind ... return to the body which is he older intelligence prior to neocortex.

[alchemystical]

4 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Most people feel much better to simply return to the subconscious mind ... return to the body which is he older intelligence prior to neocortex.

 

How does one do that?

[rideforever]

10 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

How does one do that?

 

Well ... you can see that whatever people say, working in the work place follows certain rules.  If you join a ship and you work hard then the captain is pleased and rewards you.  Such things.  So work with that idea in mind ... and ignore all the other bullshit.

For the rest, just live the animals live.  The eagles, and tigers and crocogators.  Don't be too clever.  Return to the simple life and do simple things and take joy in life.

[alchemystical]

2 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Well ... you can see that whatever people say, working in the work place follows certain rules.  If you join a ship and you work hard then the captain is pleased and rewards you.  Such things.  So work with that idea in mind ... and ignore all the other bullshit.

For the rest, just live the animals live.  The eagles, and tigers and crocogators.  Don't be too clever.  Return to the simple life and do simple things and take joy in life.

Not exactly the most practical information I've ever read in my life , but OK.

 

If anyone reading has something a bit more concrete on how to return to the subconscious whilst escaping the clutches of the ego I'd be interested to hear what you've got to say.

[idiot_stimpy]

27 minutes ago, alchemystical said:

Has anyone on here experienced ego death? 

 

The Ego suffers death and is reborn every moment with the appearance and disappearance of each thought. 

 

Simply extend the duration of time between each thought. This can give insight into an aspect not seen before.

Edited February 24, 2020 by idiot_stimpy

[alchemystical]

10 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

The Ego suffers death and is reborn every moment with the appearance and disappearance of each thought. 

 

Simply extend the duration of time between each thought. This can give insight into an aspect not seen before.

Yes, the space between the thoughts but I was referring to the maintenance and sustenance the inherent oneness experience that is present in samadhi context, especially when "out of state" and back in the real world. 

[rideforever]

If your practice is good then the state should become more solid, then you can extend it with trying to maintain it whilst using the body, in zen walking, or tai chi.  Stop everyone now and then and regain your state solidly.  Then continue with the movements.  Slowly it is maintained. This practice might take a long time but is very important otherwise you will only be at peace in meditation.

Lastly in society where things are very noisy but with the same principle, starting with simple situations and eventually with being with other people.

 

With the mind, it also needs food.  If you eat bad food the body is disturbed and not satisfied.  Same with the food for the mind.  Much of the culture will make the mind very disturbed so that has to be replaced with higher quality food, whatever appeals to you.  Continuing to disturb the mind with the culture will make things impossible. Reading and contemplating chinese philosophy, or emerson, or whatever you can find that is of a higher order.  Then the mind will function better.

The same principle goes with the emotions, the mind and emotions are linked so also your "emotional food" needs to be replaced with higher ones, the your emotional system will be happier.

 

Declaring war on your mind is not a good choice as it is in your head and you use it all the time, it is a part of you.

It has some difficult and disorientating aspects that need to be improved.

 

[idiot_stimpy]

1 minute ago, rideforever said:

Declaring war on your mind is not a good choice as it is in your head and you use it all the time, it is a part of you.

It has some difficult and disorientating aspects that need to be improved.

 

I agree. I maybe was misleading equating the ego to the devil. 

 

Instead of fighting against yourself, I find it's better to watch/observe indifferently. 

[rideforever]

In fact declaring war on the mind simply means to feed it the general culture.  You would only do that if you want to have something very unhappy and disturbed inside your head.

[alchemystical]

24 minutes ago, rideforever said:

If your practice is good then the state should become more solid, then you can extend it with trying to maintain it whilst using the body, in zen walking, or tai chi.  Stop everyone now and then and regain your state solidly.  Then continue with the movements.  Slowly it is maintained. This practice might take a long time but is very important otherwise you will only be at peace in meditation.

Lastly in society where things are very noisy but with the same principle, starting with simple situations and eventually with being with other people.

 

With the mind, it also needs food.  If you eat bad food the body is disturbed and not satisfied.  Same with the food for the mind.  Much of the culture will make the mind very disturbed so that has to be replaced with higher quality food, whatever appeals to you.  Continuing to disturb the mind with the culture will make things impossible. Reading and contemplating chinese philosophy, or emerson, or whatever you can find that is of a higher order.  Then the mind will function better.

The same principle goes with the emotions, the mind and emotions are linked so also your "emotional food" needs to be replaced with higher ones, the your emotional system will be happier.

 

Declaring war on your mind is not a good choice as it is in your head and you use it all the time, it is a part of you.

It has some difficult and disorientating aspects that need to be improved.

 

 

Yes, its very much like dream recall:

 

 

In state its all very clear and remains so if you etch it in place but when you get into the real world it seems to gradually fade away. I'll try Zen Walking and see how that goes also great point about emotional food, so true.

 

1 minute ago, rideforever said:

In fact declaring war on the mind simply means to feed it the general culture.  You would only do that if you want to have something very unhappy and disturbed inside your head.

Agreed and even that is simply pointing toward what needs to be healed. Starve the ego, feed the soul.

[ilumairen]

17 hours ago, alchemystical said:

If you had to blame anything for whats wrong with everything why then you'd be pointing at the stage yelling "Its behind you!" to the befuddled actor, draped in robes reciting lines in this masquerade of life as he stumbled around, seemingly unaware of the egos nefarious presence and influence. Its such a strange thing. Everywhere and nowhere.

 

Seeing as one of the great signposts on the path is the meeting, acceptance and dissolution of the ego I'd be interested in hearing from any of you have have wandered along this far or beyond as well as any general tales, insight, wisdom, techniques and whatever else may relate to the topic because I feel this could be a very fruitful discussion.

 

Why do we have an ego in the first place? What is its purpose? Will this be on the test?

 

The ego (to me) is generally the lens through which (the  generalized) we look at and interact with the world around us. It speaks in learned language, and perpetuates learned behaviors. It can be the perpetrator of things viewed as good or bad, and this is the tricky part.. the pitfall of spiritual egoism.

 

https://omtimes.com/2011/11/spiritual-egotism/

[silent thunder]

ego is not a thing to me, not an aspect of personality.

 

it is a verb, a process that personality engages in...

 

when drawn toward some thing, idea... i am egoing.

when repulsed by some thing, idea...  i am egoing.

 

egoing is a process, not an aspect of mind that can be built up or destroyed.

it is an activity i engage in with mind actively, or don't.

 

mind is aware of egoing and may misidentify itself with the process.

but i am not a human doing, or a human thinking... but a human being.

 

beingness requires no push, pull, aversion, nor attraction, it is as is... now.

 

egoing is engaging mind in the pushing and pulling of aversion, attraction; not local personality aspect.

 

that's as close in words as i experience it at this point.  not selling this as truth, just sharing.

Edited February 24, 2020 by silent thunder

[ilumairen]

59 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

ego is not a thing to me, not an aspect of personality.

 

it is a verb, a process that personality engages in...

 

when drawn toward some thing, idea... i am egoing.

when repulsed by some thing, idea...  i am egoing.

 

egoing is a process, not an aspect of mind that can be built up or destroyed.

it is an activity i engage in with mind actively, or don't.

 

mind is aware of egoing and may misidentify itself with the process.

but i am not a human doing, or a human thinking... but a human being.

 

beingness requires no push, pull, aversion, nor attraction, it is as is... now.

 

egoing is engaging mind in the pushing and pulling of aversion, attraction; not local personality aspect.

 

that's as close in words as i experience it at this point.  not selling this as truth, just sharing.

 

I inherited a shellfish allergy, and have a preference to live.

 

Therefore - aversion to shellfish. 

 

Coupled with an understanding of the perils (think the fool card of the rider tarot) of a complete denial of ego and unwillingness to express aversion, this simple fact of my existence has served to temper effortful dismantling of ego.

 

It is useful, imo, and experience, and so long as we're sharing words cannot be completely dismantled - "it" only falls away in silence (again in my opinion and experience).

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

I think its an interesting perspective. 

 

There is another perspective that the ego is the creator of form, operating on the level of mind. The ego is personal, however going deeper within, we find a vast impersonal space whereby all form is born and all form dies.

 

In a different way , you pre-empted what I was about to write .

 

Like many things ego is not a problem  IF  we are aware of it - as stated in the OP . 

 

It can actually be a tool  instead of a problem, as long as we understand its function and its right place in the inner personal  hierarchy .    Like 'mind'  it rises to a position of control due to vacuum .  If  the spirit or higher aspects of the self  ... or  ' a vast impersonal space whereby all form is born and all form dies' .... or even a 'selflessness'   or 'an over riding compassion for others , etc  is missing or undeveloped , then   the ego will  rise , grow , swell and fill the void .

 

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Not exactly the most practical information I've ever read in my life , but OK.

 

If anyone reading has something a bit more concrete on how to return to the subconscious whilst escaping the clutches of the ego I'd be interested to hear what you've got to say.

 

i think the original premise given to you is wrong   ;  " return to the subconscious whilst escaping the clutches of the ego "  - unless one has a very different understanding of the term 'subconscious' .

 

I suggest exchanging subconscious with superconscious .    Otherwise you just in 'normal consciousness'    with all its ego implications .... or are in a subconscious state , which is not very good for functioning , on any level .

 

https://www.ananda.org/ask/levels-of-consciousness-and-what-they-represent/

 

 

 

[rideforever]

There seems to have been a catastrophic misunderstanding of the ego, the ego is not your enemy.  It is simply something that has evolved recently in evolutionary time in the front of the brain.  It doesn't function very well and perhaps it needs to evolve further and will work better in half a million years.

On top of that it is hated by everyone and mis-educated or denied.  It has become the fall guy as if there is a stranger in your head.  There is no stranger in your head ... there is just a part of you that is not integrated.

It is true that if you separate yourself from it, it can be helpful at the beginning, also if you do awareness practices it can control it somewhat ... but these are temporary measures.

A mind / thinking apparatus is a very powerful organ, it requires great care.

Anyway, the older part of the organism is the subconscious animal ... which is still there inside you - from this one you can get the true sense of yourself.  The newer part of you should be integrated with the older animal mind, which is much more sane and stable.  This is why body work -which works with the subconscious- is so effective because it integrates the old with the new.

Reaching out to superconsciousness to save you whilst having such a big mess inside does not work very well.  The best meditators  are those that have integrated what they have inside right now; they are grounded people.

Many spiritual people would benefit with being more practically oriented and doing physical work rather than a desperate plea to the cosmos.  At least do the garden work first.

It is difficult to make final conclusions about any of this as there are many parts to us and to the path; any real forward progress in any area is good.

 

There is a film called "a beautiful mind"; perhaps we should aim for that for ourselves, and give our minds the words and stories of the many wonderful thinkers who have lived here, of many hues, not just philosophers, but poets and architects, explorers. 
During the day the mind can be spaced out, it can be intuitive, it can drone on, it can be sharp and feel present ... what is called mind in most people is changing state constantly.  Some of those states are good and you use them ... you think actively.  Taking more care will vastly improve things.

You cannot have your own mind or your own self if you are constantly connecting yourself to the sea of other people's minds.

 

The traditional spiritual techniques of disidentifying from the mind can be useful to give you some space, but it is limited.  Entering higher states of consciousness does not involve crushing your ego to death or disintegrating it, it involves self-recognition of the higher state, the recognition of something new inside you.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by rideforever