nCov19 Development and Prevention Discussion Only

[silent thunder]

This latest bail out, makes almost no provisions for small businesses.

I'm just old enough to recall the heated conversations between my Folks and their friends when Ma Bell was broken up over anti-trust/monopoly laws.

 

When was the last time, we broke up a monopoly in 'murica?  Now they're celebrated and gifted massive tax grants.  Who takes action when the pres brags 'i don't pay taxes'.  Offshore tax havens allow corporations to reap profit, while paying nothing back into the system from which they derive all their profits (cruise lines just being one example).

 

If this Stimulus Package Coffer Raid is as bad as it seemed upon first reading, this is the death rasp of the small business framework in 'murica.  Once the small biz are fractured beyond repair... JP Morgan and company sweep through and buy up whatever they wish.

 

Then we all purchase all our goods and all work at 'The Company Store' and we live in a completed Oligarchical Monopoly.

 

It's time the corporate ride were halted and restructured.  Any company being handed a payout should be restructured.  After restructuring, no stock buy backs (ahem United Airlines @ +90% in recent years), no balloon benefits to executives for 10 years and all employees from custodial and security to management should share in profits of the company across the board.

 

The folks doing the actual work of the companies are not compensated fairly, they are squeezed and abused in the extreme. 

 

The current system is parasitic.  How short sighted to bleed dry the host upon which you are feeding?

I stayed out of healthcare when I realized it was financially predatory, back in the late 80's.

 

Now I realize it's nigh on the entire American economy, that is financially predatory.

Strange times.  Sad times. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by silent thunder

[C T]

24 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

This latest bail out, makes almost no provisions for small businesses.

 

Strange times.  Sad times. 

 

Yes, it does seem very very odd indeed, and its not just America. Malaysia (where I'm now residing) just announced a $250 billion rescue package under the slogan, "Nobody will be left behind", but upon closer scrutiny, one will see how the same sector, comprising small traders, the cottage industry, the independent retailers and entrepreneurs, and other small-scale businesses are neglected. Just seems too much of a coincidence. Is this done with some kind of nefarious motive? My hunch says 'yes'. 

[SirPalomides]

2 minutes ago, C T said:

 

Malaysia (where I'm now residing)

 

Whereabouts? (I have people there)

[C T]

2 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

Whereabouts? (I have people there)

 

Mostly in the west midlands, around Perak state. Whereabouts are your connections? 

[SirPalomides]

1 minute ago, C T said:

 

Mostly in the west midlands, around Perak state. Whereabouts are your connections? 

 

Mostly north Borneo with a couple cousins in the KL area.

[Papayapple]

That everyone stay home thing is really not going to do us any favor.

Governments would do much better by just taking care of and protecting the old and weak from getting infected.

This shit is unstoppable anyway and I don't see why nobody admits it!
I don't bitch about my own isolation, but man how long you expect the economy to hold up in this ridiculous paranoia?

Edited March 31, 2020 by Papayapple

[SirPalomides]

2 minutes ago, Papayapple said:

That everyone stay home thing is really not going to do us any favor.

Governments would do much better by just taking care of and protecting the old and weak from getting infected.

 

 

What would be another practical way to do that?  

[Papayapple]

1 minute ago, SirPalomides said:

 

What would be another practical way to do that?  

Instead of patrolling the streets and whatnot, engage the police and the military to deliver all the necessities to old people's homes. If they need nursing: provide for the nurses/relatives. Old people don't need to go to work. The young do.

Yeah fuck capitalism ofc but. But for now. You know...

[C T]

24 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

Mostly north Borneo with a couple cousins in the KL area.

 

Do you visit sometimes? 

I'm in KL often enough, visiting family and friends. 

[SirPalomides]

8 minutes ago, C T said:

 

Do you visit sometimes? 

I'm in KL often enough, visiting family and friends. 

 

So far I've only been twice, the last time four years ago. I do hope to go back. The family was actually planning a wedding this year but  of course the schedule is up in the air at this point.

[C T]

This looks like a useful website for those in the US

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2764137

[C T]

9 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

 

So far I've only been twice, the last time four years ago. I do hope to go back. The family was actually planning a wedding this year but  of course the schedule is up in the air at this point.

 

I've been told lots of great things about Borneo, and its on my bucket list. How did you find the place? And KL? 

Did you get to visit Batu Caves when in KL? If cave temples are your thing, next trip try to make it to Ipoh. Some pretty awesome ones there. The energies in some of them are quite astounding. Used plural because the palpability varies from one point to another. Quite profoundly too. 

[SirPalomides]

7 hours ago, C T said:

 

I've been told lots of great things about Borneo, and its on my bucket list. How did you find the place? And KL? 

Did you get to visit Batu Caves when in KL? If cave temples are your thing, next trip try to make it to Ipoh. Some pretty awesome ones there. The energies in some of them are quite astounding. Used plural because the palpability varies from one point to another. Quite profoundly too. 

My family has lived in north Borneo since my grandparents moved there from Fujian. There has also been intermarriage with some indigenous which allows some of my cousins to claim bumi putera status. It’s a gorgeous place, for sure. I didn’t get to visit Danum Valley but we did some hiking on Mt Kinabalu and it’s quite breathtaking.

 

I did visit the Batu Caves. The caves themselves are amazing, and the ornery monkeys are fun to watch. The bats are amazing. I thought the temples detracted a bit, though- the statues had a garish theme park quality to them that IMO was not worthy of the majestic surroundings. Not the best of Hindu architecture.

Edited April 1, 2020 by SirPalomides

[Earl Grey]

"Shoot [quarantine violators] dead" says Duterte. Remind anyone of martial law? 

 

https://www.rappler.com/nation/256705-duterte-orders-troops-shoot-kill-coronavirus-quarantine-violators

 

 

[Earl Grey]

Healthcare professionals speak out and get fired while idiots keep saying this is no different from the flu.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/doctors-online-reveal-bold-loud-coronavirus-truths-200401130420720.html

[Walker]

https://fortune.com/2020/04/01/china-coronavirus-cases-deaths-total-under-report-cover-up-covid-19/

 

“The claim that the United States has more coronavirus deaths than China is false,” Senator Ben Sasse, a Nebraska Republican, said in a statement after Bloomberg News published its report. “Without commenting on any classified information, this much is painfully obvious: The Chinese Communist Party has lied, is lying, and will continue to lie about coronavirus to protect the regime.”

 

Deborah Birx, the State Department immunologist advising the White House on its response to the outbreak, said Tuesday that China’s public reporting influenced assumptions elsewhere in the world about the nature of the virus.

 

“The medical community... interpreted the Chinese data as: This was serious, but smaller than anyone expected,” she said at a news conference on Tuesday. “Because I think probably we were missing a significant amount of the data, now that what we see happened to Italy and see what happened to Spain.”

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-27/stacks-of-urns-in-wuhan-prompt-new-questions-of-virus-s-toll

 

In photo #8 in the link below, one can see ~2000 urns. The caption says the line to pick up ashes takes 5 hours to wait through in Wuhan. A Beijingese ex told me today the most common rumors she hears put the dead in Wuhan at 50,000. Her mother works in management at a hospital. Rumors are rumors, but considering the source...

 

http://m.photos.caixin.com/m/2020-03-26/101534542.html

 

------------

 

According to a political scientist at National Taiwan University who runs a think thank devoted to reading between the many, many lines of CCP propaganda (明居正教授... I've seen him speak a few times at public lectures around Taiwan, the man is brilliant, engaging, level-headed, and very plugged in), since the beginning of the year there has been a loss of over 20 million subscribers by the three major mobile phone carriers in China. During the same period last year, in contrast, these companies reported net gains in subscribers.

 

He pointed out that some of this may be because many Chinese people have multiple SIM cards and/or phones. As many rural migrant workers are stuck in their villages, it is logical to conclude that countless of these workers have lapsed on their phone bills for local numbers in cities they no longer live and work in.

 

However, the professor concluded this caveat by pointing out that even if you divide 20+ million by 2 or 3 or 5, you still get a massive number.

[SirPalomides]

There will continue to be an uptick in anti-China propaganda and hysteria as Western governments seek to deflect from their own mismanagement. The people most harmed will not be the CCP but Chinese citizens and people of Chinese descent living in the West. Those who question the narrative will be accused of being paid agents of Beijing. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by SirPalomides

[C T]

Maybe these loyal patrons and other Trump muppets should direct their focus within their own circle and own the glaring incompetence there. Right in the middle of it is Trump, the biggest donkey of misinformation by a mile. 

I'd like to see them retrace their steps to September of last year and explain the sudden deaths across the country  of over 200 people from a 'mysterious lung infection' which they conveniently attributed to vaping. Not buying that, at least not yet. 

 

[Walker]

Palomides, if you have suffered because of American racism--and there is nobody in America who has not, although of course the range of suffering is vast--you have my genuine sympathy.

 

But do not let your negative experiences blind you, or cause you to identify with something you do not actually understand. And beware presuming you understand anything about the regime ruling a country you have only visited briefly. 

 

What I have presented is hardly hysterical, and while I can't promise there is no propaganda element in any link I post that details the mistakes and evils of the CCP, be sure that I post what I do having considered what I witnessed over three thousand days over there; what countless friends and acquaintances in China have and do tell me; and what I read about China, which is a considerable amount coming from a wide variety of sources, for years.

 

Furthermore, note that I have been extremely careful to point a finger at the CCP, never the citizens of the PRC or members of the Chinese diaspora. Note also that many others are similarly cautious with their tongues. You should take care with your eyes and ears, too.

 

Note also where the photo of those urns come from. 

 

Quote

There will continue to be an uptick in anti-China propaganda and hysteria as Western governments seek to deflect from their own mismanagement. The people most harmed will not be the CCP but Chinese citizens and people of Chinese descent living in the West.

 

The people most harmed by the CCP are the Chinese people, but the CCP was doing that long before there was a President Trump, and will continue long, long after there is a big stone on the ground bearing the name of Donald Trump.

 

If idiots discriminate against Chinese people or people of Chinese descent because of negative news about the government of China, that is and will be unfortunate. Idiots have a tendency to do stupid and mean things. The fact that idiots exist, however, is not a good reason to pretend that the CCP is an honest or humane player on the world stage or in its own borders. Nor should reporting on their transgressions be hushed up. After all, failing to pay attention to what is going on in China is proving to be a deadly mistake.

 

Note also, and you too @C T, that plenty of sources of anti-CCP news are among Trump, et al's harshest critics.

 

Finally, if you actually think the CCP is an honest and humane player, Palomides... Wow.

 

Quote

Those who question the narrative will be accused of being paid agents of Beijing. 

 

Indeed some are. I do not think you are.

 

My hunch is that you were traumatized by racism. (There is no shame in that. Discrimination is inherently traumatic; it is meant to be that way.) I think one of the effects of your terrible experiences with racism is to identify with Chineseness and to focus on the ways in which racism is and has long been aimed at China, Chinese people, and people of Chinese descent. This identification seems to be insufficiently examined. Because it comes from your emotion it is not a product of the intellectual rigor you're clearly capable of. Thus, it involves too much fallacy and delusion and it is blinding you to the simple fact that:

 

One can hate the CCP while loving China and Chinese people at the same time.

 

Let me rephrase that: Sometimes, one can scarcely love China and the Chinese people without hating the CCP.

 

I do not think you are paid 5 mao for your posts. 

 

But I do know that the CCP spends millions and millions and millions of dollars to create the narrative and psychological reflex which says that CCP=Chinese. They are desperate for this narrative to govern the minds of those in the PRC's borders, and some asshole in a computer lab in a basement in Henan creams his pants everytime a person of Chinese descent in the west or a citizen of Taiwan buys the lie. 

 

It would be a pity if a man as smart as yourself lets his genes, skin tone, last name, and family lineage convince him that evil men in power have his and other common people's interests in mind. 

 

But such mistakes are common, and, for many, hard to see, hard to avoid, and hard to correct.

 

That is why plenty of seemingly intelligent pink-skinned folks who ought to know better will be voting Trump in November. 

 

Same disease, slightly different manifestation, Palomides.

 

#MAGA

#MCGA

Edited April 2, 2020 by Walker

[Walker]

25 minutes ago, Walker said:

#MCGA

 

A moment after posting this,

 

I realized that Xi Jinping's official catchphrase is 復興.

 

The meaning is essentially the same as Make China Great Again.

 

Two different colors of Kool-Aid.

 

Same fucking drug.

 

Mad heads drinking the juice in 2020...

[C T]

Thanks, Walker. That was well expressed, and I get your point. 

However, even though I'm Asian and half Chinese, Im not a Chinese sympathiser, and not taking sides. I've never felt victimised, traumatised, nor discriminated against in the many years I've lived in Europe. Anyone who tried found out how futile their attempt was.

 

What I do think is, including the likes of Russia, and the alignments of some other rogue nations like the UAE, Iran, North Korea and Israel, they're all in a race for world domination, and therefore, this crop of muppets all have the same guy doing their portraits. Its a mad mad scramble to see who's gonna cross the line first. 

 

Surely you won't assume that China will take the finger-pointing from the US lying down. They're only protecting their own interests, which is nothing new nor surprising. What sets them apart in their dealings with the outside world is the absence of aggression, save for one small blip - Tibet. Pointing out this obvious active stance they're adopting does not a CCP supporter make. China have never invaded any nation in the modern era in a bid to dominate. Im sure you know how smooth and cunning they can be, and rather than force, they'd adopted a manner of conduct to get things done via negotiations, diplomacy and non-hesitation to win support by first stretching out their hands. This is something that really irks Trump, and typically, he feels threatened by what, in his eternal rigid self, he's unable to grasp that optional passive approach, nor the concept & its usefulness.

 

The reason I'm choosing to remain curious about possible US culpability by citing the Sept '19 anomaly and how it was likely swept under the rug is because thats consistent with what this US administration's lack of transparency is famed for. I'm not buying what MSM dishes out, preferring to dig a bit to understand why they dish out particular things while covering up and hiding certain other things. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by C T

[SirPalomides]

Walker, I don’t doubt your personal experiences or knowledge but in a country as big and complicated as China, “I’ve been there” just isn’t enough to establish a broad argument about the state of a country. Among people that have lived there all their lives you will get an enormous range of opinions, not to mention foreigners who have lived there. Within my own family I’ve got people who spend a lot of time there, some of whom have very rosy views and some less so.

 

And while there are many legitimate criticisms to be made of the PRC as of any government, it is another thing to single them out as uniquely evil, as a monster not only to their own people but an octopus threatening to strangle the globe in tyranny. This is the basic thrust of most of the mainstream western reporting on China as well as Russia, Venezuela, Iran, etc. Its purpose is not to help Chinese people or anyone for that matter but to manufacture consent for a policy of escalating confrontation and xenophobia. 

[Walker]

49 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

,“I’ve been there” just isn’t enough to establish a broad argument about the state of a country. 

 

I repeat:

 

be sure that I post what I do having considered what I witnessed over three thousand days over there; what countless friends and acquaintances in China have and do tell me; and what I read about China, which is a considerable amount coming from a wide variety of sources, for years.

 

Quote

And while there are many legitimate criticisms to be made of the PRC as of any government, it is another thing to single them out as uniquely evil, as a monster not only to their own people but an octopus threatening to strangle the globe in tyranny.

 

The CCP is, fortunately, unique in its evils.

 

Just as the US is unique in its.

 

Both governments are worthy of intense scrutiny and reflection, especially if you are to go about speaking defensively either of them here. 

 

The CCP's monstrous treatment of its own people is extremely well documented, even if you divide every figure by 2 or 10 and convince yourself that there are actually no concentration camps in Xinjiang and no Falun Gong organs have been sold.

 

That they are recently expansionist and that that phenomenon is a threat to democracy and Enlightenment values beyond the PRC's borders is a reasonable worry for anybody who has paid close attention to high quality reporting on China since Xi took power.

 

For instance, on this board Earl  Grey has regularly discussed the ways in which the CCP's expansionism has negative effects in the Philippines.

 

Quote

This is the basic thrust of most of the mainstream western reporting on China as well as Russia, Venezuela, Iran, etc. Its purpose is not to help Chinese people or anyone for that matter but to manufacture consent for a policy of escalating confrontation and xenophobia. 

 

I see the SirPalomides crystal ball is out again. I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt, thanks to work experience that involved reporting on China and knowing foreign reporters posted in China personally, that there is plenty of negative press about China that is produced on the basis of noble goals.

 

Some of it actually does help the Chinese people. 

 

I note that this is the second time when defending the CCP you respond to posts with unthorough potshots. Step your game up.

[SirPalomides]

Knowledge of recent and less recent history of the American media and its pro-war, xenophobic bias is not a “crystal ball.” Nor is recognizing a well-laid pattern. Thanks for the penetrating insights about my childhood trauma though. Unfortunately I don’t have time to get into a granular, point by point discussion here, so I cede the floor to you.

Edited April 2, 2020 by SirPalomides

[SirPalomides]

Excellent Grayzone article countering US misinformation:

 

 

Quote

As the United States suffers from the worst coronavirus outbreak in the world, President Donald Trump has insisted that if his administration manages to keep the death toll to 100,000, they’d be doing a “very good job.” To deflect from the unconscionable failures and deceptions that allowed the pandemic to spread deep into the US population, the White House has launched a blame-shifting PR campaign targeting China. At the heart of Washington’s narrative is the accusation that Beijing orchestrated a “cover-up” that is responsible for the disastrous situation in the US. 

Having zealously demonized China while it battled the worst of the coronavirus crisis, corporate US media is seizing on the effort to redirect American outrage onto a foreign bogeyman. Even as it alleges that the US coronavirus response is being “undermined” by Chinese and Russian “disinformation”, the US press is in fact, promoting obscene conspiracy theories claiming that China’s coronavirus death toll is higher than the official count by an order of tens of thousands.

Conspiracy theory pushed by US government propaganda network, Radio Free Asia

The claim about tens of thousands of hidden deaths appears to have been first reported by Radio Free Asia (RFA), a US government news agency created during the Cold War as part of a “Worldwide Propaganda Network Built by the CIA”, according to the New York Times. RFA is operated by the Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG), a federal agency of the US government under the supervision of the State Department. Describing its work as “vital to US national interests,” BBG’s primary broadcasting standard is to be “consistent with the broad foreign policy objectives of the United States.”

In an article published on March 27, RFA makes the damning and explosive claim that China’s coronavirus-related deaths are far higher than the official figure, accusing government officials of perpetrating a cover-up. Unsurprisingly, RFA’s evidentiary threshold for extraordinary claims about China is extremely low. 

RFA relies on the “basic math” of “some social media posts” to conclude that “estimates show” 42,000 to 46,800 people died from COVID-19 in Wuhan, the epicenter of China’s coronavirus outbreak. These numbers far exceed the official death totals of 2,548 for Wuhan, and 3,312 for the country as a whole. This would be akin to Chinese state media outlets making claims about the US on the basis of anonymous posts found on the dark recesses of Twitter. Oddly, none of the social media posts RFA referred to were quoted in its article.

RFA’s “estimates” are based on morbid speculation regarding the cremation capacity of Wuhan’s funeral homes. RFA cites a story by the Chinese media outlet Caixin on funeral arrangements being made by Wuhan residents during the crisis. On March 26, Caixin reported that 5,000 cremation urns had arrived at a mortuary in Wuhan over a two-day period. This is treated as nefarious evidence of Chinese government deception solely because it exceeds the official death total in Wuhan. 

RFA completely ignores the fact that residents have continued to die from other causes during the pandemic, as well as the backlog in funerals and cremations caused by the city’s several month long lockdown. In 2019, approximately 56,000 cremations took place in Wuhan, according to the city’s official statistics.

That means that roughly 4600 residents died per month, a figure that was likely higher during the winter months and with Wuhan’s health care system overwhelmed by the outbreak. With Wuhan under lockdown since January 23, a substantial increase in the use of funeral homes and crematoriums should have been expected. 

Unconcerned with the dearth of hard evidence marshalled by RFA, or its transparently shoddy methodology, US corporate media ⁠— alongside far-right, neoconservative Republican Senators Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton ⁠— have amplified the US government outlet’s incendiary claims. Outlets that uncritically pushed the story included Bloomberg, TIME, VICE, Yahoo! News, Newsweek, and Fox News.

 

Washington has seized on the conspiracy theory to boost efforts to deflect attention away from its mishandling of the coronavirus outbreak. Shortly following these media reports, US intelligence agencies stated that they had “concluded” that “China’s numbers are fake” with respect to coronavirus infections and deaths. These findings were based on a “secret report” prepared for the White House — the contents of which the intelligence apparatus has declined to reveal. 

Far-right cult Falun Gong behind cremation claims

While RFA did not disclose the source of its claims, they appear to originate from the far-right, anti-government Chinese cult, Falun Gong. In VICE’s report on the “urns” story, they cite a tweet by veteran cult member Jennifer Zeng, in which she makes outlandish claims regarding China’s coronavirus infection and death totals. It is important to note, Zeng’s tweet, dated March 26, was published one day prior to RFA’s initial article. 

 

Read the rest here:

 

https://thegrayzone.com/2020/04/01/us-conspiracy-theory-on-china-coronavirus-trump/