nCov19 Development and Prevention Discussion Only

[Zork]

@moment

Please fix the formatting. It is hard to read for non native speakers.

 

[moment]

49 minutes ago, Zork said:

@moment

Please fix the formatting. It is hard to read for non native speakers.

 

 

Okay

[Miffymog]

Update from the hospital cleaning cupboard

 

After the initial anxiety about what was coming, it’s now very much the quiet before the storm.

 

The UK government policies on things such as social isolation are very much aimed at what’s happening in London, but to effectively enforce them they are being applied nationwide, which is understandable.

 

However, I live in one of the most far behind regions of the country in terms of the contagion. What this means is that the hospital has readied itself for filling up with Covid-19 patients by stopping all non-urgent treatment, but with out having many people infected yet.

 

The result is that many wards have been combined and closed down resulting in a very eerily empty hospital indeed.

 

What we hear is that actually much of the specialist equipment is being sent to where it’s currently needed, ie London.

 

Good news on the PPE front. The cleaners have gone from surgical mask, gloves and aprons to things that look more like Hazmat suites, with full face mask with tubes coming out the side to a ventilation system held around the lower back.

 

As for when / if we are going to start filling up, who knows. We have just spent the last couple of days cleaning two wards that had been cleared out of patients this week (previously stroke) and were told that they would start to fill this week again, but we don’t yet know with what kind of patients.

 

Brief existential threat to our jobs – the NHS have recruited over 500,000 volunteers to help in various ways, a consequence of lots of people having nothing to do / wanting to do something to help. Rumours were that they were going to give them cleaning jobs on the cheap – in part due to the shortage a cleaners as, with most professions currently, there seem to be around 20% of employees self-isolating.

 

But instead, and to the relief of the unions, they hospital has turned to the job market, which has suddenly been flooded with people looking for work to fill the gaps.

It used to be the case that most cleaners here seemed to have been employed for 10 years, but we’ve now got an influx of cleaners who have only been around for 2 to 3 weeks.

 

So it’s all dauntingly quiet at the moment. I’m relatively new to the profession and have a degree of emotional sensitivity, so I’m not high up on the list to be sent to the currently 3 Covid Wards, which is quite fine by me. Will we eventually fill up with more patients … ? Will I find myself helping out there or is there more than enough other areas in the hospital that need to be cleaned without my going there?

 

Don’t know. I do know that if I had a choice I think I would choose to have it now if I could. And the anxiety is more what I’d see in the wards than my actually catching it. But, like everyone out there in their own way, facing the uncertainty is not great.

 

So until next week for the next update … (as I currently only work on the wards at the weekends) …

[Earl Grey]

Here's a little something about a cat that had coronavirus--read the whole article before panicking though. 

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cat-belgium-positive-coronavirus_n_5e7f79e4c5b6cb9dc1a145bc

[Earl Grey]

Some interesting Twitter posts.

 

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

[Earl Grey]

[Cheshire Cat]

Anyone experiencing loss of smell as a CoVid-19 symptom? 

[Earl Grey]

Another absurd thread on practices and claiming it's TCM fighting coronavirus in China, which people like @Walker will certainly have a field day taking apart. 

 

 

For those who hate reading on Twitter, here it is from Thread Reader: 

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1244275982166413312.html

 

Quote

Absurd medical practice inside #China's "Square Cabin" Hospital for #COVID19 patients - I'm just going through an interview I did with a #COVID19 patient who was put into one of the "Square Cabin" hospitals in #Wuhan during the lockdown period, and I can't come to sense ... 

... with the absurd things that the patient shared with me. Here are some of the crazy things that actually took place inside those "Square Cabin" hospitals. 

1. The patient was put into one of the "Chinese Medicine" Square Cabin Hospital, and he said the #CCP basically forced all patients to undergo Chinese medicine treatment without any scientific theory to confirm that these treatments actually can work for #COVID19 patients. 

2. For propaganda purposes, the Communist Party would send Chinese medicine "experts" to the Square Cabin Hospitals and asked patients to follow some absurd medical practices, and a camera crew will be following these "experts" to produce propaganda pieces. 

3. The experts asked patients to massage the area around their belly button clockwise, because they said "such practice will force the virus out of the patient's body." Additionally, patients will also have to massage the acupuncture points on top of their head clockwise too. 

4. When the interviewee challenged these experts by asking them "what would happen if I massage my belly button or acupuncture points counter-clockwise?" The experts angrily responded by saying "that's the western medical way of thinking." 

And then, the patient asked again what would happen to him if he perform the "massage counter-clockwise," the expert angrily said "this is how I practiced it and it worked." 

5. Patients will also be given two bags of Chinese medicine that they were told to simply take all of the medication without asking the doctors whether it worked or not. 

6. Chinese medical "experts" also asked all patients to lift their sleeves and hit their own elbows as hard as they can until the elbows were bruised. They claimed bruising the elbow is also one way to "force the virus out of the patients' bodies." 

7. As a result, the Square Cabin Hospital the interviewee stayed at would always have the noise of a group of people hitting themselves super hard, and most of the middle-age ladies at that hospital ended up always having bruised elbows. 

"The Chinese medical doctors said if we keep hitting our elbows, it can help to clear up the virus in our lungs," the interviewee told me. 

 

[Walker]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

Absurd medical practice inside #China's "Square Cabin" Hospital for #COVID19 patients - I'm just going through an interview I did with a #COVID19 patient who was put into one of the "Square Cabin" hospitals in #Wuhan during the lockdown period, and I can't come to sense ... 

... with the absurd things that the patient shared with me. Here are some of the crazy things that actually took place inside those "Square Cabin" hospitals. 

1. The patient was put into one of the "Chinese Medicine" Square Cabin Hospital, and he said the #CCP basically forced all patients to undergo Chinese medicine treatment without any scientific theory to confirm that these treatments actually can work for #COVID19 patients. 

2. For propaganda purposes, the Communist Party would send Chinese medicine "experts" to the Square Cabin Hospitals and asked patients to follow some absurd medical practices, and a camera crew will be following these "experts" to produce propaganda pieces. 

3. The experts asked patients to massage the area around their belly button clockwise, because they said "such practice will force the virus out of the patient's body." Additionally, patients will also have to massage the acupuncture points on top of their head clockwise too. 

4. When the interviewee challenged these experts by asking them "what would happen if I massage my belly button or acupuncture points counter-clockwise?" The experts angrily responded by saying "that's the western medical way of thinking." 

And then, the patient asked again what would happen to him if he perform the "massage counter-clockwise," the expert angrily said "this is how I practiced it and it worked." 

5. Patients will also be given two bags of Chinese medicine that they were told to simply take all of the medication without asking the doctors whether it worked or not. 

6. Chinese medical "experts" also asked all patients to lift their sleeves and hit their own elbows as hard as they can until the elbows were bruised. They claimed bruising the elbow is also one way to "force the virus out of the patients' bodies." 

7. As a result, the Square Cabin Hospital the interviewee stayed at would always have the noise of a group of people hitting themselves super hard, and most of the middle-age ladies at that hospital ended up always having bruised elbows. 

"The Chinese medical doctors said if we keep hitting our elbows, it can help to clear up the virus in our lungs," the interviewee told me. 

 

Most of this strikes me as pretty innocuous, not-likely-to-cause-harm-might-help-just-a-little-bit TCM stuff. Slapping the elbows is a common folk remedy for strengthening the lungs. I honestly don't know if it really helps. I have stood in rooms with dozens of people slapping their insides of their elbows purple. I tried once. It hurts like hell and there are better ways to improve immunity, so I never did it again. For whatever reason this particular method indeed does seem to capture the imagination of middle-aged mothers more than anybody else.

 

The clockwise rub around the stomach is supposed to promote good digestion, the whole "don't do counter-clockwise, that's western" is hilarious and reminds me of the stupidity at TCM university. Most of the doctors who say shit like that aren't actually so stupid as to believe it--they just feel like they have to say something, and whoop-dee-doo pull stuff like that out of their asses when asked questions (they generally don't like questions, I should add). 

 

#2 is not surprising. "Look at TCM, the CCP created TCM, TCM is going to save the world" is a major soft power propaganda initiative. 

 

I'm more disgusted by the WHO adviser you posted about earlier. What a spineless, gutless little pube of a man. 

 

Quote

 

The WHO, and in particular its director general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, have been accused of being too deferential to China and accepting of China’s claims about the virus outbreak despite evidence it initially covered it up.

 

In February, Aylward, who has decades of experience in battling disease outbreaks, led a WHO mission to Wuhan, several weeks after the pandemic started. After returning he told media the country had “absolutely turned it around”.

 

In a clip shared by Chinese media, Aylward said the country knew what it was doing and “if I had Covid-19 I’d want to be treated in China,” he said.

 

Naifs from countries with low levels of corruption are sooooooo easily taken in when they visit China. Wine em, dine em, give them a $15 porcelain tea set with a dragon motif, and they will drive through any Chinese Potemkin village and politely refrain from asking why the windows are painted. 

 

Hopefully one good thing that will come about of the covid calamity is people becoming more cynical about PRC propaganda. If they don't, what fragile and poorly-distributed Enlightenment values we enjoy are fucked.

[ralis]

Dr. Trump at it again! He feels really good about this and therefor it must work. The FDA has approved Hydrochloroquine and Chloroquine as treatment protocols for COVID-19 without any medical trials. When people find out that pet shops carry this stuff, the results will be disastrous.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/fda-says-hydroxychloroquine-chloroquine-can-used-treat-coronavirus-1494925

[SirPalomides]

The stuff in the pet shops is not the stuff they're talking about. Or rather, it's the stuff but the right dosage is crucial. It is possible that chloroquine is useful for treating the virus but poisoning yourself with aquarium supplies is a whole other thing.

Edited March 30, 2020 by SirPalomides

[ralis]

39 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

The stuff in the pet shops is not the stuff they're talking about. Or rather, it's the stuff but the right dosage is crucial. It is possible that chloroquine is useful for treating the virus but poisoning yourself with aquarium supplies is a whole other thing.

 

I am aware of that, but if persons are unable to obtain it through the medical establishment, they will find other ways. That is what I stated.

[SirPalomides]

There are a lot of potentially beneficial substances out there that become poisons if you don't know what you're doing. There are some manifestly stupid decisions by individuals that not even Trump can be blamed for.

[ralis]

Saturday we needed and with caution went to Home Depot and Whole Foods. One would think that all would practice social distancing? Wrong! Most were absolutely oblivious. Home Depot employees were not gloves of any kind and didn't move out of the way when I wanted to find a cutting blade for my multi tool. I asked the employee to move and he was reluctant to do so. My partner said it is the tough guy store and as usual she reads situations and people very well.

 

Whole Foods was better in that their employees were taking precautions, but shoppers for the most part had their heads up their ass.

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, ralis said:

Saturday we needed and with caution went to Home Depot and Whole Foods. One would think that all would practice social distancing? Wrong! Most were absolutely oblivious. Home Depot employees were not gloves of any kind and didn't move out of the way when I wanted to find a cutting blade for my multi tool. I asked the employee to move and he was reluctant to do so. My partner said it is the tough guy store and as usual she reads situations and people very well.

 

Whole Foods was better in that their employees were taking precautions, but shoppers for the most part had their heads up their ass.

 

Same thing here. Some idiot yelled at me when I told him to give me space when he kept running a couple feet right in front of me when there was a lot of space before they closed the roof deck. He asked me if there were any signs saying to maintain social distance, I pointed to the signs by the elevator and on each floor. He then challenged me saying it wouldn't matter if he ran behind me, and I mentioned how it is transmitted in the air and on surfaces. He then said that nobody is forcing him to do that, and I mentioned that there's an executive order to maintain social distance. He then called me an asshole and ran off, then kept his distance. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if we should just let them get the damned virus and experiencing the full range of symptoms that patients describe as feeling like drowning for one. 

[SirPalomides]

Yeah it's tempting to go "fuck it, let the idiots get themselves infected" but then, even from a selfish perspective, that's no good because they're the ones most likely to infect other people.

[Earl Grey]

Just now, SirPalomides said:

Yeah it's tempting to go "fuck it, let the idiots get themselves infected" but then, even from a selfish perspective, that's no good because they're the ones most likely to infect other people.

 

Yeah, totally different, I get that. I'm mostly still jaded by how the anti-vaxxers swelled in numbers the past few years and how a lot of previously eradicated diseases have made their return, so that was more of a sardonic moment there. 

[ilumairen]

16 minutes ago, ralis said:

Saturday we needed and with caution went to Home Depot and Whole Foods. One would think that all would practice social distancing? Wrong! Most were absolutely oblivious. Home Depot employees were not gloves of any kind and didn't move out of the way when I wanted to find a cutting blade for my multi tool. I asked the employee to move and he was reluctant to do so. My partner said it is the tough guy store and as usual she reads situations and people very well.

 

Whole Foods was better in that their employees were taking precautions, but shoppers for the most part had their heads up their ass.

 

We have completely stopped going to any store. Goods are ordered, packages sprayed with lysol when delivered, and then placed in the garage for at least 24 hours. 

 

We're both still working, and consider our coworkers, and in my case the odd present necessity of my menial job..

 

We can't fix "stupid," but sometimes we can adapt when confronted with it.

[ralis]

21 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Same thing here. Some idiot yelled at me when I told him to give me space when he kept running a couple feet right in front of me when there was a lot of space before they closed the roof deck. He asked me if there were any signs saying to maintain social distance, I pointed to the signs by the elevator and on each floor. He then challenged me saying it wouldn't matter if he ran behind me, and I mentioned how it is transmitted in the air and on surfaces. He then said that nobody is forcing him to do that, and I mentioned that there's an executive order to maintain social distance. He then called me an asshole and ran off, then kept his distance. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if we should just let them get the damned virus and experiencing the full range of symptoms that patients describe as feeling like drowning for one. 

 

Right wing MAGATS are willing to sacrifice their own health to stick it to liberals. Amazing!

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/03/social-distancing-culture/609019/

[ralis]

10 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Yeah, totally different, I get that. I'm mostly still jaded by how the anti-vaxxers swelled in numbers the past few years and how a lot of previously eradicated diseases have made their return, so that was more of a sardonic moment there. 

Anti-vaxxers haven’t a clue when it comes to small pox and other horrific diseases. These anti-science freaks are having things like chicken pox parties so as to infect their children. Herd immunity doesn’t work that way. I had mild case of shingles over a year ago which would not have happened if a vaccine had been developed when I was young. 

[ralis]

Whole Foods employees are staging a sickout tomorrow due to lack of safe working conditions and pay. Bezos has stated in the last few weeks that paid sick leave must be shared among workers so it doesn't cost him more money! Fucking Capitalists!

 

 

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dmeka/whole-foods-employees-are-staging-a-nationwide-sick-out

[SirPalomides]

Bezos is a ghoul. I have heard of Amazon workers going on strike too. Power to the workers.

[Earl Grey]

15 hours ago, ralis said:

Whole Foods employees are staging a sickout tomorrow due to lack of safe working conditions and pay. Bezos has stated in the last few weeks that paid sick leave must be shared among workers so it doesn't cost him more money! Fucking Capitalists!

 

 

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dmeka/whole-foods-employees-are-staging-a-nationwide-sick-out

 

15 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

Bezos is a ghoul. I have heard of Amazon workers going on strike too. Power to the workers.

 

As if Bezos would be hurt by spending a few bucks on people who, oh you know--actually fucking need extra cash?! 

 

The vacuous king of hoarders will only invite the rot into his reserves and whatever is left of that soulless core inside that thick and perverse flesh of his. 

[Earl Grey]

Some other points of information:

 

https://madrascourier.com/opinion/how-china-the-who-orchestrated-a-global-genocide/

 

China and the WHO fucked us over.

 

https://www.firstpost.com/india/coronavirus-outbreak-beijing-can-be-prosecuted-under-international-laws-for-under-reporting-virus-threat-8200871.html

 

China can and should be sued for this.

 

https://warontherocks.com/2020/03/china-is-legally-responsible-for-covid-19-damage-and-claims-could-be-in-the-trillions/

 

Make them pay.