nCov19 Development and Prevention Discussion Only

[C T]

9 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

After looking into this, it appears the Wuhan reference is a later edit, and not found in the original 1981 edition.

 

And the second photographed quote is from a(n also later) Sylvia Browne work called End of Days.

 

As late as December 2019?  

[Earl Grey]

Why social media is full of idiots who are really demigods and the algorithms are some of the new gods: 

 

https://nypost.com/2020/03/25/influencer-reportedly-hospitalized-with-coronavirus-after-licking-toilet/

[ilumairen]

2 minutes ago, C T said:

 

As late as December 2019?  

 

Both pictured quotes appear to date to 2008.

[SirPalomides]

12 minutes ago, C T said:

 

As late as December 2019?  

 

Well now someone is saying the CIA knew about the virus in November . I don't buy it but man are the conspiracy theorists going to love that one.

[C T]

22 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

Well now someone is saying the CIA knew about the virus in November . I don't buy it but man are the conspiracy theorists going to love that one.

 

It could well be earlier than November even. There's reports citing the engineering of this superbug began way back in 2003/04. 

 

And why have Russia been seeing such low numbers despite it being a top attraction to Chinese visitors/tourists? 2019 saw 1.5 million mainlanders passing thru Russian borders. This is enough to debunk Trump's claim that it was the Chinese who spread the bug globally during the run-up to the lunar new year. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by C T

[dawei]

57 minutes ago, C T said:

And why have Russia been seeing such low numbers despite it being a top attraction to Chinese visitors/tourists? 2019 saw 1.5 million mainlanders passing thru Russian borders. This is enough to debunk Trump's claim that it was the Chinese who spread the bug globally during the run-up to the lunar new year. 

 

I have not heard this conspiracy theory.  that the spread did not come out of China.

 

The Wash. Post reported on Feb. 1 that 20 countries were already affected.   Hundreds of millions of chinese were traveling for the holidays. 

 

I could not find an exact list of countries so looked some up myself.  The US, Korea, Thailand, France, Russia, Germany, Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Taiwan, Australia, Spain, Italy, UK, Canada, India... all reported the first case(s) in January and ties to chinese traveling.    The next wave of countries was in Feb-March.

 

As for Russia... the same was said of Africa at one point but no longer (in terms of low incident).  Russia started restricting their border in late January. 

[SirPalomides]

My uncles are insisting to me over WhatsApp that the virus is a US bioweapon gone awry. This theory is apparently quite popular on Chinese social media.

[dawei]

46 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

My uncles are insisting to me over WhatsApp that the virus is a US bioweapon gone awry. This theory is apparently quite popular on Chinese social media.

 

very much so

 

[C T]

1 hour ago, dawei said:

 

I have not heard this conspiracy theory.  that the spread did not come out of China.

 

The Wash. Post reported on Feb. 1 that 20 countries were already affected.   Hundreds of millions of chinese were traveling for the holidays. 

 

I could not find an exact list of countries so looked some up myself.  The US, Korea, Thailand, France, Russia, Germany, Japan, Cambodia, Vietnam, Taiwan, Australia, Spain, Italy, UK, Canada, India... all reported the first case(s) in January and ties to chinese traveling.    The next wave of countries was in Feb-March.

 

As for Russia... the same was said of Africa at one point but no longer (in terms of low incident).  Russia started restricting their border in late January. 

 

This is exactly the narrative coming out of the White House, but as of this period, despite the massive movement of mainlanders in and out of Russia throughout all the time before border restrictions were enforced, it just seems odd that the Russian figures are suggesting some sort of anomaly. Im disinclined to believe that all of sudden, in the run up to the lunar new year, the hordes of Chinese travellers suddenly decided to avoid Russia in favour of all these other countries you cited above. Its more like patchwork than anything else when looking at the overall spread on a map with Russia very much a standalone in terms of (low) infection activity. Could be they cooked the books, but a quick glance at Moscow Times confirms the low numbers, although this does not mean Russia is not doing what China is being accused of. As an aside, no thanks to Trump's xenophobic rhetoric, Australia, the UK and Im sure the US as well are reporting spikes in race-hate crimes fuelled by echoes from the man himself. 

Another major Trump bungle: 

Quote

 

The NY.U. team, as well as a team at Mount Sinai hospital, New York, analyzed two different groups of genomes of the coronavirus taken from infected New Yorkers in mid-March. according to the Times. Through tracing the mutations within the genomes via compute testing, they were able to estimate how long the virus lived and track it back to its ancestors.

 

Studies found that the virus was entering the country via flights to New York from Europe, weeks before Trump implemented a ban on travellers from China on January 31. By the time he stopped travel from Europe in mid-March, thousands of people were already infected.

 

(multiple sources reported the above)

Edited April 9, 2020 by C T

[dawei]

6 minutes ago, C T said:

 

This is exactly the narrative coming out of the White House, but as of this period, despite the massive movement of mainlanders in and out of Russia throughout all the time before border restrictions were enforced, it just seems odd that the Russian figures are suggesting some sort of anomaly. Im disinclined to believe that all of sudden, in the run up to the lunar new year, the hordes of Chinese travellers suddenly decided to avoid Russia in favour of all these other countries you cited above. Its more like patchwork than anything else when looking at the overall spread on a map with Russia very much a standalone in terms of (low) infection activity. Could be they cooked the books, but a quick glance at Moscow Times confirms the low numbers, although this does not mean Russia is not doing what China is being accused of. As an aside, no thanks to Trump's xenophobic rhetoric, Australia, the UK and Im sure the US as well are reporting spikes in race-hate crimes fuelled by echoes from the man himself. 

 

Everything I wrote is from Wash Post, WSJ, and other sources stating the start (Patient 1) in various countries.   This is all public info.   I said I researched it myself.  Anyone can.

 

We also know that between the outbreak in Wuhan till the US closed flights from china that 450,000 chinese traveled to the US.  Our mistake was not closing it from Europe too. 

 

As to Russia, I only found they enacted border restrictions very early, earlier than the US on flights.   Given how China is thought to report lower than actual, and North Korea still claims not a single death... I don't know that Russia's numbers are reported correctly. But one thing we know, if you don't test there is nothing to report.  Taomeow stated this quite a while ago and I agree. 

 

I will agree that the Russian figures don't really make sense but again, neither did Africa's for a while... till they started reporting their testing.  

 

I am personally more inclined to think it is a number's cover-up than a avoidance to travel to Russia because the latter doesn't make much sense to me... but leaves it at the lack of reported infections don't make sense. 

 

As to hate crimes, it is a historical fact that pandemics incite discrimination.   Most would be appalled at past actions.  If anyone didn't see such outcomes, it is nonetheless well documented.   Certainly, everywhere is best served by messaging away from separating mankind. 

 

In 1858, a mob burned down a massive quarantine hospital on Staten Island. Locals “were afraid that immigrants were carrying yellow fever, especially Irish immigrants,” Jacobs said. Pandemics can intensify fears of “the other,” and exacerbate racist myths about foreigners being diseased or unclean.

 

With sars, in 2003, you’d see people stopping going to Chinatown” in Manhattan. She noted a similar reaction to covid-19, which has given rise to “these kinds of informal ideas that it’s anything to do with your race rather than where you happen to have travelled from,” she said. “This inflammatory language, or alarmist rhetoric, happens so quickly, and is not based on any facts.

 

Attacking members of the Chinese community over the coronavirus is exactly the same thing as attacking members of the Muslim community over leaving Europe: there is no logical connection. This is a completely illogical act.

 

 

When the 2014 Ebola epidemic made its way from West Africa to the U.S., the panic—along with misinformation, fear, and discrimination—spread faster than the virus itself. 

[C T]

There's quite a difference between people becoming fearful/resentful of visiting Chinatown and this.... 

 

https://beingasianaustralian.net/2020/04/08/covid-19-racism-in-australia-making-asian-australians-stunned-confused-and-fearful/?fbclid=IwAR35ikmthE7K4FaeIVQdwDuTnf0vUZ6rtncZUC0OP82EpQrzGub_8HfkoKg

[dawei]

39 minutes ago, C T said:

There's quite a difference between people becoming fearful/resentful of visiting Chinatown and this.... 

 

https://beingasianaustralian.net/2020/04/08/covid-19-racism-in-australia-making-asian-australians-stunned-confused-and-fearful/?fbclid=IwAR35ikmthE7K4FaeIVQdwDuTnf0vUZ6rtncZUC0OP82EpQrzGub_8HfkoKg

 

Fearful of visiting chinatown is on the low end of the spectrum... burning down hospitals on the high end.

 

There has already been rioting and looting in the US. Chinese attacked in NY and on the subway areas.  Screaming at them about their eating habits, etc.  I've seen non-chinese asians attack chinese.  Its all appalling treatment and historical.   I'm likely more sensitive as my wife and step-daughter talk about whether they should show their face in some places.   

 

BTW:  I'm glad you brought up Russia as it remains on my mind to look at more.   Thanks.

[dawei]

6 hours ago, dawei said:

BTW:  I'm glad you brought up Russia as it remains on my mind to look at more.   Thanks.

 

The main thing I've read so far is that Russia, so the criticism goes, is doing the opposite of counting deaths as the US.  In the US, if a person gets infected by covid-19 and dies they are attributing it to the virus.  There is some loose applications being told online (if a mother dies of pneumonia without being tested but it is found that the son was infected then that should count as the virus. I'm not sure I would agree without the coroner blood testing).

 

But in Russia, the death certificate tends to reflect what you died of (heart attack, pneumonia, etc), even if infected.  So it may be that those without any pre-existing conditions who died and were infected are the ones they count as covid-19 deaths.  

Edited April 10, 2020 by dawei

[C T]

8 hours ago, dawei said:

 

The main thing I've read so far is that Russia, so the criticism goes, is doing the opposite of counting deaths as the US.  In the US, if a person gets infected by covid-19 and dies they are attributing it to the virus.  There is some loose applications being told online (if a mother dies of pneumonia without being tested but it is found that the son was infected then that should count as the virus. I'm not sure I would agree without the coroner blood testing).

 

But in Russia, the death certificate tends to reflect what you died of (heart attack, pneumonia, etc), even if infected.  So it may be that those without any pre-existing conditions who died and were infected are the ones they count as covid-19 deaths.  

 

Maybe Russia & a handful of other countries are the only ones reporting factual cases. Its possible. 

 

Was thinking about this last night, and it dawned on me that US & the UK must have had significant cases showing around January or even earlier but deflected their responsibility to act with urgency, not because of ignorance as some claimed, but rather on purpose. Its the only away they can scapegoat China the way they are doing now, with UK reportedly announcing they are seeking damages to the tune of something like £360 billion for China's failure to promptly notify the international community of the severity of the outbreak. This is nonsense of course. 

 

 

Quote

 

How China "LIED" to the world!

 

*4 months ago*

*China:* OK there's a new virus. From now on no one moves around. If you go out, you must wear a mask. Nationwide lockdown and quarantine policies implemented.

*The West:* Don't trust anything these f**ing commies say! It's just a flu! They are trying to control everyone's life! There's no need for masks.

*Asia:* Let's take measures, wear masks and control frontiers

*3 months ago*

*China:* Start building hospitals so the medical system doesn't get overwhelmed.

*The West:* It's a concentration camp! They are murdering people out there! They are untrustworthy!

*Asia:* We keep our distance and security high

*2 month ago*

*China:* We are experiencing a surge of patients and this virus is super infectious via air and physical contact. We are also experiencing shortage on medical supplies and medical practitioners. Pulling everything from the country to Wuhan.

*The West:* Look how backward they are, not even having enough PPE for their doctors and nurses. They are clearly wrong about the method of transmission, that's why they are making everyone wear masks. They've even locked down the country and stopped the economy. What a bunch of idiots.

*Whole Asia:* Are those western countries gonna do something?

*over a month ago*

*China:* Numbers are reducing in China. People are slowly getting back to work now.

*The West:* F**ing liar! We are seeing numbers in Italy and it clearly doesn't match data from China! Millions of Chinese people must have died! It's still spreading!

*Whole Asia:* Why do they say masks are useless?

*a month ago*

*China:* Dude, why are things getting out of control out there? Where are your hospitals and why are you not in total lockdown? Were you just sitting there pointing fingers at me for three months, and did nothing?

*The west:* You commies never told us how dangerous this virus is! You've been giving us false data the whole time!!!

*China:* I don't understand. If you never trusted me, and when I said it's a big deal, you insisted it's actually a small flu, why do you maintain that millions of people must have died in China? If you think the number of deaths must be very high, doesn't that indicate it's a dangerous virus and you should be prepared? How could you believe millions of people have died, but at the same time not recognising it's dangerous?

*the West:* It's only a big deal in a backward country like yours, where people are poor and unhygienic, where the medical system is still in the 50's, where the government covers up figures and doesn't alarm people [as to] how dangerous it is! It shouldn't affect advanced countries like us!

*China:* But it is with you and killing your people now!!! Do something about it so you can still save lives!!!

*The West:* Not before we found everything we can blame on you!!! It's too late for us to do something now, people will just die and eventually we'll have herd immunity, but you must take the full responsibility for it!

*Now*

*World:* China help us. We need masks, ventilators, PPE etc.

*China:* To the best of my ability, I'll send PPE and medical personnel.

*The west:* You helped out of ulterior political motives to expand your influence ! Your numbers are fake. Tons of people died in your country. Our superior system technology and medicine are the proof that this virus couldn't be beaten with such low death numbers.

*Whole Asia:* What about all our numbers? much lower than China?

*England:* I'm going to sue you for billions of dollars and make you take responsability for all that mess.

 

 

 

[ilumairen]

Ok, so to present the idea China may have lied regarding number of initial cases and their severity is (insert word of choice indicating how wrong it is, I'm going to go with) egregious, and now it's time to consider the US and England as potentially having lied and diminished in a manner serving their ends instead?

 

[Earl Grey]

Curiously, it has hit a group of people who have contributed to many of the world's problems now: 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/coronavirus-widespread-saudi-royal-family-report-200409070130026.html

 

 

[Nungali]

On 10/04/2020 at 1:35 AM, Earl Grey said:

Why social media is full of idiots who are really demigods and the algorithms are some of the new gods: 

 

https://nypost.com/2020/03/25/influencer-reportedly-hospitalized-with-coronavirus-after-licking-toilet/

 

 

 

MY GOD !

 

I am gonna be careful saying 'Kiss my arse'   around that lot !

[Earl Grey]

4,428 cases and 247 deaths! https://www.rappler.com/nation/257653-coronavirus-cases-philippines-april-11-2020

 

Healthcare workers are basically being treated like slaves: https://www.rappler.com/nation/257602-poea-deployment-suspension-filipino-healthcare-workers-coronavirus

 

The government is not helping the community level very well: https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/in-depth/257497-duterte-chaos-leaves-barangay-officials-helpless-coronavirus-lockdown

 

Twitter knows Duterte's trolls are bots at best and idiots at worst: https://www.rappler.com/technology/news/257563-twitter-suspends-accounts-defending-philippine-pandemic-response

[Miffymog]

Well, my covid life at the hospital is settling down now.

 

Normal procedure for non-infected rooms.
Go into the room, change the bins and come out.
Go back in and wipe all the ceramic surfaces, check the loo roll and then come out again.
Go back in and mop the floors.
Done.

 

Enhanced procedure for a room when someone has the flu.
Put on a surgical mask, plastic apron and new gloves before entry.
Take everything into the room in one go.
Do the above the tasks.
Just before you leave the room, take off the gloves, mask and apron and put them in the bin bag you’re taking out.
Done.

 

In a ward of 5 single rooms and 5 bays with 8 beds in, if someone has the flu, they go into a side room. If all 5 single rooms are taken up then the infected patient has to stay in a bay. If more than one bay has infected patients in then the whole ward gets closed.

 

Local journalists will misinterpret a closed ward as being an empty one. Nope, it just means the ward is not accepting any visitors or taking in any new patients, everything inside just carries on as usual. If enough wards are closed, then the whole hospital gets closed, which hits the local news and sometimes the national news as well.

 

This happened last year with the norovirus.

 

Unsurprisingly, life in a hospital with the norovirus is very similar to that with coronavirus.

 

And that is where I am now. Some of my anxieties about it have all died down as many of my questions have been answered. Will I be kept on my normal ward? Yes. Will it be a covid positive one? Yes. What will it be like there? The patients I clean around are pretty mild cases, so not too bad.

 

So for me, things have settled down and are kind of back to normal – ish.

[thelerner]

On 4/11/2020 at 8:58 AM, Earl Grey said:

4,428 cases and 247 deaths! https://www.rappler.com/nation/257653-coronavirus-cases-philippines-april-11-2020

 

Healthcare workers are basically being treated like slaves: https://www.rappler.com/nation/257602-poea-deployment-suspension-filipino-healthcare-workers-coronavirus

 

The government is not helping the community level very well: https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/in-depth/257497-duterte-chaos-leaves-barangay-officials-helpless-coronavirus-lockdown

 

Twitter knows Duterte's trolls are bots at best and idiots at worst: https://www.rappler.com/technology/news/257563-twitter-suspends-accounts-defending-philippine-pandemic-response

Used to be, medical help treated badly in the Philippines would come here, to the US.  Same with Haiti.. many places.  And they were most welcome, we were lucky to have them.  Nowadays, immigration has been closed tight.  sadly

[Earl Grey]

Trump promised a bridge to everyone, and those who didn’t buy it weren’t surprised, while those who did are very happy:

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/13/832797592/a-month-after-emergency-declaration-trumps-promises-largely-unfulfilled

[Earl Grey]

https://apnews.com/68a9e1b91de4ffc166acd6012d82c2f9
 

One of many ways it could have been prevented.

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/14/834588506/trump-says-he-will-halt-who-funding-pending-review

 

Trump attacking the WHO by cutting funding, in spite of my views that the WHO has failed us all due to their actions prioritizing appealing to the CCP is made worse because this is when we actually need to cooperate.

 

https://www.rappler.com/move-ph/ispeak/257878-opinion-teachers-not-bullies-enemies-free-speech

 

Free speech under attack due to the opportunistic authoritarian government and its populist sycophants.

 

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1258531/breaking-covid-19-cases-in-ph-reach-5223

 

5,233 cases now...

[Earl Grey]

Life after corona:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opinion/stimulus-infrastructure-covid.html

 

Though I have reservations about his predictions given that his book, The World is Flat, was full of platitudes and conjecture, as well as everything wrong with the neoliberal worldview....

 

...as debunked years ago by The Atlantic in 2005, when I was still in university (Go Bruins!)....

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/images/issues/200510/world-is-spiky.pdf

[SirPalomides]

16 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Life after corona:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/opinion/stimulus-infrastructure-covid.html

 

Though I have reservations about his predictions given that his book, The World is Flat, was full of platitudes and conjecture, as well as everything wrong with the neoliberal worldview....

 

...as debunked years ago by The Atlantic in 2005, when I was still in university (Go Bruins!)....

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/images/issues/200510/world-is-spiky.pdf

 

That Tom Friedman article seems actually somewhat sensible though not exactly groundbreaking. Of course for every sensible thing Friedman says, there are a hundred inanities and blunders. In the world of big-time American "journalism" there is rarely accountability for being wrong- more often, you fail up, and Friedman is the poster boy of that phenomenon. Apart from the World is Flat he cheerled the Iraq War, wrote a fawning puff piece about MBS a few months before the Khashoggi murder, and did not one but two articles arguing for the US to support ISIS- not, mind you, because he likes ISIS, but because bleeding Russia and Iran is worth any price.  I think in most professions that track record would mark someone as an idiot, but in the NYT bubble it makes him an edgy maverick.

[Earl Grey]

6 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

That Tom Friedman article seems actually somewhat sensible though not exactly groundbreaking. Of course for every sensible thing Friedman says, there are a hundred inanities and blunders. In the world of big-time American "journalism" there is rarely accountability for being wrong- more often, you fail up, and Friedman is the poster boy of that phenomenon. Apart from the World is Flat he cheerled the Iraq War, wrote a fawning puff piece about MBS a few months before the Khashoggi murder, and did not one but two articles arguing for the US to support ISIS- not, mind you, because he likes ISIS, but because bleeding Russia and Iran is worth any price.  I think in most professions that track record would mark someone as an idiot, but in the NYT bubble it makes him an edgy maverick.

 

I love the NYT, but in recent years, it caused me to cancel my subscription for the time being precisely because of him and Farhad Manjoo. The op-ed--especially from those two idiots--is absolute garbage, as they included pieces submitted by Carrie Lam and Narendra Modi justifying HK and Kashmir.

 

I've also found that for every one good piece the NYT has, they have three shill articles in an attempt to be all things to all men. Honestly, they need to honor their demographics, and they can't decide if they want to bring in more Millennials or please the old guard, and the worst thing they do (like many groups) is expand the range of years that designate people as Millennials. The Times do have great investigative reports, but seriously, the quality has been compromised by marketing goals. 

 

On topic, I find the proposals set forth by Mr. Friedman fairly sensible, but again, it's fairly good, not great. What really concerns me is that the rush to get through this is not enough time to prepare for the world after the crisis is over, so planning and implementing can't come without even the necessary brainstorming.