Dying in meditation

[Gerard]

I know this issue is described in the book "Opening the Dragon Gate" and also know that in Buddhist tantra is also practiced. Now, I was wondering if it can be done alone in a long spiritual retreat. I have no access to a Taoist or a Buddhist sect as I live in the Western world so I guess this task would be enormous and quite risky.

 

Would like to hear your opinion (especially from some of you more advanced spiritual practitioners like myself)?

 

Regards.

[sheng zhen]

I know this issue is described in the book "Opening the Dragon Gate" and also know that in Buddhist tantra is also practiced. Now, I was wondering if it can be done alone in a long spiritual retreat. I have no access to a Taoist or a Buddhist sect as I live in the Western world so I guess this task would be enormous and quite risky.

 

Would like to hear your opinion (especially from some of you more advanced spiritual practitioners like myself)?

 

Regards.

It sounds like it is exptremely risky, especially if you try to do it with some aid like pills or anything. From what I read on the foundation forum that Wang Li Ping was carefully looked over by his masters who actually was a little afraid he wouldnt make it. They also worked very hard to guard him from external influences like ghosts and the like. I also think he ate a pill that induced the experience, isnt that right?

 

My guess is that the masters would say "do not try this at home"

 

Maby you could write a little synopsis of how this process was explained in the book? I havent read it yet...

[Gerard]

It sounds like it is exptremely risky, especially if you try to do it with some aid like pills or anything. From what I read on the foundation forum that Wang Li Ping was carefully looked over by his masters who actually was a little afraid he wouldnt make it. They also worked very hard to guard him from external influences like ghosts and the like. I also think he ate a pill that induced the experience, isnt that right?

 

My guess is that the masters would say "do not try this at home"

 

Maby you could write a little synopsis of how this process was explained in the book? I havent read it yet...

 

 

No, I am not going to take anything. I am not going to risk my practice because of a foolish act.

 

The book doesn't give enough detail for someone to carry the process by themselves.

 

Wait and see if there are more responses to this thread.

 

Regards.

[Yoda]

The yogic paths I'm familiar with do advocate learning how to voluntarily stop respiration and heart beat through spiritual influences and practices in order to free the spirit to 'stroll in the Tao'.

 

From what I surmise, a normal person can achieve this but we have to find a practice that really lights a fire.

 

Worst case scenario, if we can't manage a yogic death preview, we'll be able to experience a normal death which I'm told is beyond description fun.

 

I'm told that people who have NDE's have different brainwave patterns (per Discover magazine). I wonder if those who've had 'yogic NDEs' have the same brainwave change. I bet it's very similar.

[manitou]

Yoda said, "From what I surmise, a normal person can achieve this but we have to find a practice that really lights a fire"

 

 

perhaps this stroll in the Tao is what

people find when they prefer

another's hands on their neck

at the moment of sexual orgasm.

that practice should light a fire,

as it were

[rain]

..................

Edited April 17, 2008 by rain

[Yoda]

Rain!!

 

You returned just in time for the choking game!!

 

How was your retreat???

 

Yours,

Yoda

[Flowingthroughtime]

I know this issue is described in the book "Opening the Dragon Gate" and also know that in Buddhist tantra is also practiced. Now, I was wondering if it can be done alone in a long spiritual retreat. I have no access to a Taoist or a Buddhist sect as I live in the Western world so I guess this task would be enormous and quite risky.

 

Would like to hear your opinion (especially from some of you more advanced spiritual practitioners like myself)?

 

Regards.

 

Lie still in your bead. Put your left hand on your solar plexus chakra and your right hand below. Focus 100% of your awareness at solar plexus and let go at breathing out. You will get into a trance. This can be deepend depending on talent to below delta level brain waves and hence produce a near death experience. You can also kill yourself this way.

Edited March 10, 2008 by Flowingthroughtime

[sheng zhen]

You can also kill yourself this way.

I knew this statment would come in this thread! I wrote something about it but erased in my other post.

 

No you cant die. You can try! but you wont be able to do it. Not even if you go into delta-wave levels of meditation. The bodys instinct of survival is too strong. You might THINK it is possible, but in real life it simply is not possible to kill yourself by doing meditation. You might have fear of dying when you do deep meditation, but that is not the same thing as really doing it. You might feel like "if I go deeper now Ill die", but in reality you wont. It is just fear, not real.

 

This is the same as the illusion that you might loose your body if you go to far or too deep in astral travel. It is simply not possible. It is created by fear of loosing one self, but it is not the same thing as really doing it.

 

When I was a kid me and my friends held our breath till we faded to get near death experiences. We where gone mabe 30 seconds, but to us it felt like ages. We went through dream-like journeys that seemed to last forever, or saw ourselves from above and things like that. But we never died! we fainted! After a while we all got such a bad headache that we decided to stop it.

 

If you believe that deep meditation is the same as dying, then you really dont need to be very expereinced to die, hahaha. But I think there is a lot more to what Wang Li Ping experienced than just deep meditation...

[rex]

In the Tibetan Buddhist tradition some gifted practitioners can die for a few days and then come back to tell others what they saw. These practitioners are called delogs:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Delog-Journey-Realms.../dp/1881847055/

 

I hope the accounts are exaggerated to put the wind up folks so they practice more.

 

One way of training for death is to be aware of one's essential spiritual core and die in that state. Easier said than done of course, and it'll take a life time of practice to be able to have confidence and faith that one has actually stabilised that state.

 

Dream yoga is good training for death as falling asleep is said to be similar.

[Gerard]

I found an old link related to this stuff:

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1091061/posts

 

There is also a brief view of another lama who died in meditation and depicted in a YouTube vid:

 

[Flowingthroughtime]

I knew this statment would come in this thread! I wrote something about it but erased in my other post.

 

No you cant die. You can try! but you wont be able to do it. Not even if you go into delta-wave levels of meditation.

 

I talk about below delta wave trances. When you are in a delta wave trance you are conscious during deep sleep. If you go lower to below delta you get NDEs and actually leave your body. Here it is possible to shut down your brain waves and hence die. It is very, very rare to be able to do this. Even to get into a below delta wave level trance is very difficult to do. Normally only very skilled yogis can do it.

[sheng zhen]

I talk about below delta wave trances. When you are in a delta wave trance you are conscious during deep sleep. If you go lower to below delta you get NDEs and actually leave your body. Here it is possible to shut down your brain waves and hence die. It is very, very rare to be able to do this. Even to get into a below delta wave level trance is very difficult to do. Normally only very skilled yogis can do it.

Yes, it is only a far out theory. You know, many people dont even get to alpha-level because they get afraid of loosing themselves to the void. To believe that it is possible to die from meditation is really just far out theory and dosent happen. Unless one has some aid like magical pills or poison, but then again it is not meditation that kills you.

[Gerard]

Another interesting but brief reading in here:

 

http://moonovermatteo.blogspot.com/2006/03...-decompose.html

[Flowingthroughtime]

Yes, it is only a far out theory. You know, many people dont even get to alpha-level because they get afraid of loosing themselves to the void. To believe that it is possible to die from meditation is really just far out theory and dosent happen. Unless one has some aid like magical pills or poison, but then again it is not meditation that kills you.

 

I know people who are able to into below delta wave trances (one of them measured it with an EEG) and get NDEs. To get into such deep trances is a practise in tibetan buddhism (and also in Taoism, briefly mentioned in one of the books by Mantak Chia). It is a theory that is experience based.

 

You claim many people don't get to alpha level. Some news for you: Alpha waves are a characteristic for simple relaxation. All people experience it every day.

[sheng zhen]

I know people who are able to into below delta wave trances (one of them measured it with an EEG) and get NDEs. To get into such deep trances is a practise in tibetan buddhism (and also in Taoism, briefly mentioned in one of the books by Mantak Chia). It is a theory that is experience based.

 

You claim many people don't get to alpha level. Some news for you: Alpha waves are a characteristic for simple relaxation. All people experience it every day.

Yea, your right. My point with my rambling was to disarm the belief that it is possible to die from meditaton by doing it home alone or by going deep enough. Ive heard from many people that they get afraid when they enter the meditative state and "loose themselves". This is ofcourse connected to the fear of dying. But I dont think this has anything to do with the real death-process explained by Wang LiPing. And I think that peoples subjective experience of going deep in meditation dosent nessecarily connect with the true decrease in brainwaves. But this is true only for beginners. This thread is for the experienced.

 

I am sorry I hijaked this thread with my misunderstanding... got a little lost and blind in my own agenda. Carry on with your interesting links!

[exorcist_1699]

In general , healthy people can't die so easily. Seldom do people die in sleeping or long time sitting. They get tired not killed As long as qi is still in your body , Shen (spirit)does not leave; as long as Shen is there , you are still alive. Of course , if Shen grasp qi together ..... I think ,it should be considered in the jin-qi-Shen framework.

Edited March 16, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[joeblast]

I was just reading this book...says the first time he did it, he meditated for 28 days straight, collapsed dead for 3 days, then came back....all under the supervision of 3 grandmasters.

[gendao]

Another interesting but brief reading in here:

 

http://moonovermatteo.blogspot.com/2006/03...-decompose.html

Anyone ever heard of Pedro?

Pedro the Mystery Mummy

 

In October of 1932, Cecil Main and Frank Carr spotted what appeared to be gold in one of the walls of a ravine at the base of the San Pedro Mountains, 100 miles west of Casper Wyoming. The two men blasted away a portion of the wall behind which they found a cavern.

 

To their astonishment, inside the cavern the two prospectors found a very strange creature poised on a small ledge, sitting cross-legged, arms folded.

 

This creature was extremely small, having a height of 7 inches sitting, and a total height of only 14 inches! Its face resembled an old man with huge, heavy-lidded, bulbous eyes, flat nose, low forehead, and a broad, thin-lipped mouth. Its skin was a bronze color and very wrinkled. The body was barrel shaped, the hands large with unusually long fingers. The head was flat on top and coated with some kind of dark, gelatinous substance; this coating covered all but a fringe of its hair at the edge of the temples.

 

Small as the creature was, however, it was NOT the mummified body of a child!

Carefully, the men removed the figure and returned to Casper.

 

At first, scientists were skeptical; nevertheless, Dr. Henry Shapiro, an anthropologist from the American Museum of Natural History, was intrigued enough to arrange for an X-ray examination of the tiny being. The X-ray confirmed that Pedro (so named after the mountains it was found in) possessed an irrefutably human-like skeleton with a complete set of ribs. The arms were fully formed as were the legs and feet. The fontanels were closed, indicating that it was indeed an adult.

 

The creature also had a complete set of adult teeth, including a noticeably large and pointy set of canines (just like a vampire!)

 

Other names for little people: Hawaiian Menehune (small sacred workers); Irish Leprechauns; English Brownies; German Kobolds and Gnomes.

[松永道]

Anyone ever heard of Pedro?

 

No way...

[Gerard]

What has got the remains of an anencephalic human do with esoteric spiritual practices?

[Taiji Bum]

Looking back on my meditative experiences they seem like the different forms of NDE's you read about. First I started having OBE which is like being a ghost. Then I had tunnel expiences of getting sucked up into the "light". St Teresa also talks about when she entered rapture she would lie as if dead. Her fellow nuns could barely detect a breath and she would grow cool.

 

Maybe THATS exactly what meditation does. It takes us through the death process while alive until the point where we can be in the presence of God/Tao and "live". Maybe each stage of meditation actually takes us closer and closer to real death and this prepares our mind and body for the ultimate 3 day true death that the Taoist dude in that book says he went through and because we prepared for it we dont stay dead.