Apech Posted December 9, 2020 7 hours ago, C T said: There are arguments to be made for compliance with strict protocols too. Taiwan is the leading example of this: Population 23.8 mil. Total cases 718. Total deaths 7. Active cases 129. Total cases/1M population: 30 Whats baffling is that the supposedly 'less advanced' countries have been faring much better. For instance, Tanzania: Population 60.4 mil. Total cases 509. Total deaths 21. Total cases/1m population: 8 Cambodia: Population 16.8 mil. Total cases 350. Total deaths 0. Total cases/1m population: 21 Laos: Population 7.3 mil. Total cases 41. Total deaths 0. Total cases/1m population: 6 Mongolia, Vietnam, Burundi, Bhutan, Papua New Guinea are also on the 'faring much better' list. Especially of note is Vietnam (97 mil population - 0.4 deaths/million) and Burundi (12 mil population - 0.08 deaths/million). When the battle is over I suspect a review of this thing will show that some countries have already been exposed to either this virus or SARS or another coronavirus crossover which gives natural immunity. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted December 9, 2020 All of these stats seem predicated on the assumption of accurate and widespread testing... Some countries are not testing like others... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Apech said: When the battle is over I suspect a review of this thing will show that some countries have already been exposed to either this virus or SARS or another coronavirus crossover which gives natural immunity. I saw an article somewhere that talked about this very thing - and that it had been detected in the U.S. prior to anything coming out of China. Virus crossover sounds likely to me, but I'm no rocket surgeon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 9, 2020 10 hours ago, liminal_luke said: I think it´s possible that the people in those "less advanced" countries you mentioned enjoy health-promoting lifestyles, at least compared to the US and most of Europe. It´s precisely the so-called diseases of civilization that predispose people to severe COVID. Here are the questions I would ask... Is their diet less processed? Do they spend more time outside? Are their family and friendship circles tighter knit? Do they spend less time in front of screens (TV, computer, etc)? Do they walk greater distances on an average daily basis? If the answer to these and similar question is yes, I think we have our answer. Definitely YES for Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. I'm guessing its the same for the other countries as well. I do wonder about the stats though. How many purported covid deaths actually perished with covid as the primary (sole?) cause? Since there is no cure, and the recovery numbers are not small by any means, one wonders. Most healthy covid patients (here in Malaysia) recover within a few days where the virus did not exacerbate or expose previously undetected physical ailments/maladies. One does not even need to have a particularly strong immune system. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 9, 2020 Meanwhile, in neighbouring Brunei.... “The reason why we are allowing visitors from Brunei is simply because they have not had any new cases or infections for the last 215 days" ~ spokesman for the East Malaysian govt. Brunei covid free for 7 months. No panic there, I'd say. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) The nightmare begins... Today's news: Asian govts could require travellers to be vaccinated against Covid-19, says AirAsia CEO Despite this sentiment from WHO: WHO against making coronavirus vaccine mandatory (South China Morning Post) https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/3112958/who-against-making-coronavirus-vaccine-mandatory Edited December 9, 2020 by C T 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobB Posted December 10, 2020 https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-hospitals/we-need-help-says-stockholm-healthcare-chief-as-covid-fills-intensive-care-wards-idUKKBN28J256 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natural Posted December 10, 2020 On 12/9/2020 at 8:16 AM, C T said: Meanwhile, in neighbouring Brunei.... “The reason why we are allowing visitors from Brunei is simply because they have not had any new cases or infections for the last 215 days" ~ spokesman for the East Malaysian govt. Brunei covid free for 7 months. No panic there, I'd say. 19 minutes ago, RobB said: https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-hospitals/we-need-help-says-stockholm-healthcare-chief-as-covid-fills-intensive-care-wards-idUKKBN28J256 Total Cunfusion or is it Confucius ism? Canceling my travel plans to Sweden... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, natural said: Total Cunfusion or is it Confucius ism? Canceling my travel plans to Sweden... Do as you wish. Actually, seems like Sweden succumbs to the pressure of fear mongers. Such as certain people on this forum do. Well, let me tell you, you will be subject to your own beliefs. Edited December 11, 2020 by Michael Sternbach Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natural Posted December 10, 2020 On 12/8/2020 at 5:47 AM, DreamBliss said: Actually, the behavioral changes are related to social issues. Enlightened civilizations don't have any of thee things... Or COVID. On 12/8/2020 at 9:06 AM, Michael Sternbach said: Most of all, an enlightened civilization wouldn't be handling that kind of crisis in such a self-destructive fashion. While I would not go as far as calling Sweden an advanced civilization, I do think that it probably handled the pandemic better than any other nation so far. No lockdowns, no restrictions to speak of, no businesses going bankrupt... No more than a few behavioral recommendations - not including the wearing of masks! Constantly being poo-pooed by other nations right from the beginning, that are untiredly painting dire pictures of the upcoming doom that is inevitably going to befall the Swedish, I do think the statistics speak for themselves: Currently 267,953 cases of positive test results (out of a population of 10,327.589) of which no more than 249 (0,1%) are in a serious condition! https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/sweden/ On 12/8/2020 at 10:13 AM, ilumairen said: https://www.gazettenet.com/Covid-19-in-Sweden-37574909 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobB Posted December 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said: Well, let me tell you you will be subject to your own beliefs. I'm married to a Swede and we did a runner to Sweden (from the UK) for 7 weeks (late June though to beginning of August) earlier this year. The Swedes are subject to their own beliefs - that they are exceptional and shouldn't have to put up with any incovenience or discomfort. Turns out nature doesn't care about their beliefs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natural Posted December 10, 2020 Don't cry for me, Argentina. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RobB said: I'm married to a Swede and we did a runner to Sweden (from the UK) for 7 weeks (late June though to beginning of August) earlier this year. The Swedes are subject to their own beliefs - that they are exceptional and shouldn't have to put up with any incovenience or discomfort. Turns out nature doesn't care about their beliefs. Well, looking at the stats, seems like nature does care about their beliefs. Always experience follows belief. Edited December 10, 2020 by Michael Sternbach Spello Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natural Posted December 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said: Well, looking at the stats, seems like nature does care about their beliefs. Always experience follows belief. ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, natural said: ? Which part of my two sentences you did not understand? Edited December 10, 2020 by Michael Sternbach Spello Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natural Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said: Which part of my two sentences you did not understand? The audacity of making such a bold or arrogant statement: 25 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said: Well, looking at the stats, seems like nature does care about their beliefs. Always experience follows belief. You are welcome to that belief personally. But to ascribe it to others, I find questionable at best. I find a grand pronouncement like that more than a little hubristic. Edited December 10, 2020 by natural spelling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, natural said: The audacity of making such a bold or arrogant statement: You are welcome to that belief personally. But to ascribe it to others, I find questionable at best. I find a grand pronouncement like that more than a little hubristic. I bid your pardon? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ This is about as official as it gets... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobB Posted December 10, 2020 45 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said: Well, looking at the stats, seems like nature does care about their beliefs. What? The Worldometer that puts Sweden in the no 25 position for COVID-19 deaths per million inhabitants? That's 25th out of 220 countries. I'm not sure those stats mean what you think they mean. Also - that other post you made, earlier - that's not a picture of the Danish health minister. Merry Xmas though - you do you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted December 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, RobB said: What? The Worldometer that puts Sweden in the no 25 position for COVID-19 deaths per million inhabitants? That's 25th out of 220 countries. I'm not sure those stats mean what you think they mean. Also - that other post you made, earlier - that's not a picture of the Danish health minister. Merry Xmas though - you do you! Nope, I meant the part that states a mere 252 cases being in a critical state. Any flu epidemic would have as much! But hey, flu cases strangely don't even occur any longer... See official WHO statistics posted above. Merry Xmas to you! Michael Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natural Posted December 11, 2020 15 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said: I bid your pardon? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ This is about as official as it gets... Let the bidding begin. At say ten million Euros. Or bit coins if you prefer. Cheap at twice the price, imho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) Sweden - daily deaths from Covid .... does this look like panic stations? ... or a second wave which is smaller than the first and has already peaked? Here is Portugal - similar size country about 10m for comparison - daily deaths: Edited December 11, 2020 by Apech 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobB Posted December 11, 2020 Yup. Portugal currently 37th on the deaths/million pop charts. UK is 10th but still holding strong against the USA at number 11. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted December 11, 2020 People on Aussie coronavirus vaccine test positive for HIV ? Urrrgh ! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted December 11, 2020 https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2020/12/11/australia-drops-promising-covid-19-vaccine-after-volunteers-falsely-tested-positive-for-hiv/ 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Sternbach Posted December 13, 2020 Test subjects of Pfizer's vaccine evidently showing severe reactions (although some claim them to be mere coincidence). https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/12/11/cdc-monitors-for-bells-palsy-among-pfizer-vaccine-recipients-sees-no-causal-relationship.html 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
