What is Taoism

[GSmaster]

15 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

Tai Chi!   Does it ring then bell?

 

Tai Chi is relative new thing is not it?

 

It is more of a modern martial art.

[Maddie]

For the day's question I would like to ask between taoism and Buddhism what are your preferences and why?

 

I think I'll start off by saying that I've been pretty seriously involved with Buddhism for several years now and while it does make a lot of sense to me theoretically experientially I don't know if I've noticed a whole lot of difference or not.

Edited April 6, 2020 by dmattwads

[C T]

5 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

For the day's question I would like to ask between taoism and Buddhism what are your preferences and why?

 

I think both can be harmonised to great effect because these two traditions share a lot in common, although each have their own way of expressing the ineffable. So, its a question of resonance, or, better yet, affinity. The end goal of both is similar but expressed differently. This similarity, I believe, gets more refined and the convergence clarifies as the practice matures towards fruition. Of course some would disagree, and thats quite understandable. Many lay Buddhists that I know incorporate Taoist as well as Confucian wisdoms into their daily lives, and vice versa. But where I am is quite unique in terms of intertwined traditions among the Asian populace. Its just a quirk of this multi-racial country. Its quite common here for Buddhists to venerate/worship/accept teachings at Taoist temples, and for Taoists to do the same at Buddhist ones. Maybe my view is very much informed (and perhaps even biased) by this wonderful melting pot of cross-tradition admixture. 

[Rara]

Dunno. I read the Daodejing and it just seems true. Like looking out of the window.

 

When I tried getting into Buddhism, I started noticing the rules. Things started to get convoluted and then it just became another organised religion. I always say, I love Buddha, but not Buddhism.

 

Whereas, I don't have to love Dao.

 

I just posted another thread on Dao and amorality, which is a minor attempt to differentiate between a Daoist attitude vs a philosophy with morals and virtues, if that helps.

[Maddie]

28 minutes ago, Rara said:

 

When I tried getting into Buddhism, I started noticing the rules. Things started to get convoluted and then it just became another organised religion.

 

I totally get that but it makes me wonder why is it that we don't like rules? 

[ReturnDragon]

2 hours ago, dmattwads said:

For the day's question I would like to ask between taoism and Buddhism what are your preferences and why?

My preference is Taoism, non religious, is because it has only one fundamental principle to be followed which is Wu Wei. Wu Wei is to let nature take its course with no interference. It was suggested just to let things be to avoid many conflicts in life.  

[ReturnDragon]

1 hour ago, C T said:

Many lay Buddhists that I know incorporate Taoist as well as Confucian wisdoms into their daily lives, and vice versa.

The reason for that is because during the Tang Dynasty there were many conflicts between the three religions. Hence, the emperor put them all in one room to talk things over. So to speak. Hereinafter, these three religions were sharing their philosophies and worship some of the deities.
 

1 hour ago, C T said:

It's quite common here for Buddhists to venerate/worship/accept teachings at Taoist temples, and for Taoists to do the same at Buddhist ones.

Based to my knowledge, I didn't think that was a very common practice.
 

[C T]

31 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

Based to my knowledge, I didn't think that was a very common practice.
 

Perhaps its because we live in different countries. 

 

[gatito]

2 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

I totally get that but it makes me wonder why is it that we don't like rules? 

 

Who are "we"?

 

People in general or you and Rara?

 

 

[Maddie]

Whoever it might be applicable to 😉

[Maddie]

Ok so in Buddhism the goal is liberation. The means to accomplish this is wisdom, that comes from insight, that comes from mediation and right view.

 

If the goal in Taoism is immortality, what are the means to accomplish this?

[Rara]

5 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

I totally get that but it makes me wonder why is it that we don't like rules? 

 

Because they can be full of s***.

 

So we go believing things that are a waste of time an energy. Occupying our time practicing ritual when we could be out of our heads and experiencing life.

 

I'm speaking in dogmatic religious terms, of course. Rules are important for governance.

[Rara]

3 hours ago, gatito said:

 

Who are "we"?

 

People in general or you and Rara?

 

 

 

I actually hovered over that like button for a moment before clicking, but that's fair.

 

Yes, most people do like "rules", on a religious level. It gives framework and meaning, and as I mentioned in my last post, from a governance standpoint they are good.

 

I like some rules. I also like to see what I can get away with around them (don't we all?)

 

But it's important to note the semantics here. I'm happy for a law that says not to steal, and you'll be punished if you do. I'm not so happy for someone to tell me to do, or not to do XYZ because of (insert religious goal here)

[Rara]

34 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

If the goal in Taoism is immortality, what are the means to accomplish this?

 

I just want to highlight "If" and "goal"

 

You'll get different answers, depending on who answers.

 

"If", well...for me it isn't.

 

"Goal" ... No goal. Sorry, VAR ruled it out.

 

If I eat well, sleep well, practice taiji (keep all the internal balance, lower stress yadda yadda ya) live spontaneously, enjoy art, open my arms wide and let the heavens pour in, breathe into the belly, look left and right as I cross the street...or not cross the street because there's a killer bug outside...oh, and remain in tune with the calling of the winds that are taking me to where I belong....

 

...well, I don't know about you, but I'd be happy living tomorrow and the next day and the next.

 

Who dares to tell me what happens after this vessel that's carrying me finally runs its course?

Edited April 6, 2020 by Rara

[Starjumper]

3 hours ago, dmattwads said:

Ok so in Buddhism the goal is liberation. The means to accomplish this is wisdom, that comes from insight, that comes from mediation and right view.

 

If the goal in Taoism is immortality, what are the means to accomplish this?

 

Liberation and Immortality, not Liberation vs. Immortality.  In many ways those are similar and arrived at by similar means ... except for the armchair crowd.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Starjumper

[gatito]

1 hour ago, Rara said:

 

Because they can be full of s***.

 

So we go believing things that are a waste of time an energy. Occupying our time practicing ritual when we could be out of our heads and experiencing life.

 

I'm speaking in dogmatic religious terms, of course. Rules are important for governance.

 

Interesting!

 

Do you consider that humanity is incapable of self-governance?

 

To put it a different way - do you consider that people are fundamentally incapable of decent behaviour unless they're hierarchically regulated.

 

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, gatito said:

 

Interesting!

 

Do you consider that humanity is incapable of self-governance?

 

To put it a different way - do you consider that people are fundamentally incapable of decent behaviour unless they're hierarchically regulated.

 

 

The legalists said no. 

[gatito]

13 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

The legalists said no. 

 

Are you a legalist?

 

If not, what's your view?

 

[Maddie]

My opinion. Since there are many different kinds of people some are just fine without rules, others not so much.

[Rara]

37 minutes ago, gatito said:

 

Interesting!

 

Do you consider that humanity is incapable of self-governance?

 

To put it a different way - do you consider that people are fundamentally incapable of decent behaviour unless they're hierarchically regulated.

 

 

No, not incapable. Daoism teaches that this is the Way, and it is open to all of us.

 

Yes, incapable. People are generally distracted and therefore too occupied to bother with self-governance. Plus, it's all "me, me, me" out there 😒

 

Pick one. No, not that one. No, not that one.

 

Not that one either.

[gatito]

I'm wondering if you consider that's behaviour specific to these "environmental factors" (e.g. TV, mobiles, advertising/consumerism, careerism, etc.) or if generally, that's the default state of human nature?

 

If undistracted, would people generally behave well?

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by gatito

[ReturnDragon]

1 hour ago, dmattwads said:

 

If the goal in Taoism is immortality, what are the means to accomplish this?

It was accomplished by the cultivation of the mind and body. The are many things in the cultivation of the mind. Such as to keep one's poise at all times. To have a peace of mind by stay calm and avoid conflicts in general. In addition, to broaden one's wisdom by the acknowledgement of the facts in life. 

The cultivation of the body is to keep oneself on a state of homeostasis by practicing healthy exercise like Tai Chi and Qigong. Furthermore, it is by eating a special diet.

[Earl Grey]

15 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

My opinion. Since there are many different kinds of people some are just fine without rules, others not so much.

 

This is reinforced in Geert Hofstede's book Cultures and Organizations: Software of the Mind. Very good anthropological study and essential reading for managers and those working in fields that require engaging other people, especially from different culture groups (i.e. everyone). 

[Rara]

10 minutes ago, gatito said:

I'm wondering if you consider that's behaviour specific to these "environmental factors" (e.g. TV, mobiles, advertising/consumerism, careerism, etc.) or if generally, that's the default state of human nature?

 

If undistracted, would people generally behave well?

 

 

No, because someone would create a distraction.

 

So yes, environmental factors, being 2020.

 

"Being 2020". Sounds like a teen movie. Cute!

 

I deleted 3 paragraphs because it was pure rambling and it invites a derail. That's all ya gettin'.

[Maddie]

How does Qigong tie into Taoism? Is it what Hatha yoga is to Hindu meditation? Preparing the physical body to be able to sit in meditation for extended periods of time?