Limits of the meridians ? Limits of qi flow in body ?

[freeform]

15 hours ago, waterdrop said:

what do you mean ?

There is an end to the process - as in you wouldn’t be doing spontaneous movements for 20 years. It’s a process that runs it’s course and ends eventually.

 

15 hours ago, waterdrop said:

I am looking for motivation to practice it more  -   and the end point thing you wrote and this   seems like its not that great without that great results

Not at all - it’s a great process and clears a lot of stuff - one of the most efficient methods for the early stages.
 

(I’m assuming your spontaneous movement is what I’m familiar with - it may be something different like interpretive dance type of thing...)

 

But no one method will get you all the way.

 

Im afraid you need to find the motivation inside yourself. This is a really difficult path. There’s a story about one of the Yang family members who tried to commit suicide because of the extreme discomfort of internal training. Another one tried to run away...

 

Of course you’re probably not subjected to the rigorous level of training that the Yang family had, so you’ve no excuse 

 

Just remember the resistance you feel is a resistance to change. It’s normal. Training isn’t pleasant - but that resistance is irrelevant. Just do what’s required and you’ll go far

[waterdrop]

TBH i dont like to read it  ( that its not one method all the way and that its not for 20 years) cause it does lower the motivation to practice it -  probably (99%) my fault for asking 

what i am doing is just moving in what goes between qigong movments some the even very close to the ones i practice in zhineng qigong   to  interpretive dance type of thing  

Edited April 5, 2020 by waterdrop

[waterdrop]

2 hours ago, freeform said:

There is an end to the process - as in you wouldn’t be doing spontaneous movements for 20 years. It’s a process that runs it’s course and ends eventually.

 

Not at all - it’s a great process and clears a lot of stuff - one of the most efficient methods for the early stages.
 

(I’m assuming your spontaneous movement is what I’m familiar with - it may be something different like interpretive dance type of thing...)

 

But no one method will get you all the way.

 

Im afraid you need to find the motivation inside yourself. This is a really difficult path. There’s a story about one of the Yang family members who tried to commit suicide because of the extreme discomfort of internal training. Another one tried to run away...

 

Of course you’re probably not subjected to the rigorous level of training that the Yang family had, so you’ve no excuse 

 

Just remember the resistance you feel is a resistance to change. It’s normal. Training isn’t pleasant - but that resistance is irrelevant. Just do what’s required and you’ll go far

If you do many movments in it that you do in other techniques even more tailored for your own needs   (the qi will move where it is needed   - and in that its much better than other qigong styles ? )    than  you  can clear all blockages with spontaneous qigong   -  is it not so ?   

 

    your meridians will be the best they can be flow will be crazy good is it not the case ?

it can be like meditation as well no ? 



 

[GSmaster]

3 hours ago, waterdrop said:

your meridians will be the best they can be flow will be crazy good

 

I think your being a bit too optimistic here.

 

Meridians won't flow like crazy even after years of practice. Same goes for their limits. There is no wonder pill that will open all your meridians to its limits in few years.

 

Who has meridians opened to their limits? Do we actually know such person?

 

And if you care about bandwith / how much energy meridians may possible conduct. Just look at those thin cables on the floor, how fast they are? How thin cable can transmit tremendous power. Putting a finger in electricity socket will kill you.

[freeform]

23 hours ago, waterdrop said:

what i am doing is just moving in what goes between qigong movments some the even very close to the ones i practice in zhineng qigong   to  interpretive dance type of thing 

I’m sorry - I’m having to do an interpretive dance to understand what you’re saying. 
 

What I think you’re saying (correct me if I’m wrong) is that during your spontaneous Qigong sessions you find yourself doing movements similar to other Qigong movements you learned. And you’re saying surely this is super efficient...

 

Well not quite I’m afraid.

 

18 hours ago, GSmaster said:

There is no wonder pill

That’s exactly the case.

 

The internal arts are a lifelong process. Very intricate. Very difficult. If you’re doing it to get some effect in your life, then I would say you’re probably better off with something else. If you don’t enjoy the process, you’ll just waste your time and get frustrated.

 

The spontaneous movements are the result of your subconscious interacting with your nervous system through the movement of Qi.

 

So you will ‘act out’ things in your subconscious mind... including Qigong movements you’ve learned or seen... some dances... sounds... thoughts... mantras etc. These are mostly just fragments of your subconscious mind and it’s attachments breaking loose by working their way through your nervous system.

 

If your mind latches on to the idea that the Qigong-like movements that come about is the best thing ever, it will keep recreating these movements (because your mind keeps re-attaching to this idea). And you’ll keep doing them for 20 years. This is not progress - this is simply getting stuck in the process. You’re just going in circles.

 

There is no magic practice. There is no magic empowerment or meditation or understanding. It’s a very complex process just like any complex process that humans learn and achieve. 
 

It’s like rocket science

 

There’s no magic pill in rocket science. Even if you discover the perfect rocket fuel - there are still thousands of details you’ll need to work out, test and perfect for you to be able to launch a rocket that lands on the moon.

Edited April 6, 2020 by freeform

[waterdrop]

9 minutes ago, freeform said:

  and it’s attachments breaking loose by working their way through your nervous system.
 

  

attachments getting cleared out ?         

[freeform]

Just now, waterdrop said:

  

attachments getting cleared out ?         

Yeah - mental and emotional (sometimes karmic) attachments in your subconscious clearing out as your Qi pushes it through your nervous system.

 

An incredibly efficient process. 
 

But when seen in the context of the whole of the spiritual path, it’s just a small step along that path.

[waterdrop]

Well that is great  i dont know  i come from buddhism   and if "all" it does is clear attachments that is amazing

but since you talk about it not being a practice for 20 years   -  than i wonder will i know when im done with it and wasting my time with it ? 

[waterdrop]

also  what im saying is that by reading what you say  maybe spontaneous qigong is not really that good  -   and  other qigong method are better ?   thats what i get  - 

i mean  i practiced zhineng qigong  also  -  so maybe your saying its better to practice it insted od sponatneous qigong

[freeform]

6 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

Well that is great  i dont know  i come from buddhism   and if "all" it does is clear attachments that is amazing

Yes - it is amazing. 
 

But these are reasonably ‘surface’ level attachments that you release... things like traumas.

 

It doesn’t touch deeper aspects - like your attachment to preference... attachment to time etc. It also doesn’t clear your karmic attachments - just the cause around that karma... So for example you might feel a constant constriction in your diaphragm as a result of some karma... you might clear the constriction and the other cascading sideffects of this karma - but the karmic seed is still there and given right conditions will reflower. You remove the seed with other practices usually on long retreats (vipassana or alchemy).

 

9 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

maybe your saying its better to practice it insted od sponatneous qigong

No. I’m saying there is no magic bullet. There is no ‘one Qigong better than all others’. The rocket boosters aren’t better than the rocket fuel. You need to know what you’re doing or you need to be working with someone who does.

 

14 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

will i know when im done with it and wasting my time with it ? 

If things aren’t changing over the months then you might be stuck. The tendency is for spontaneous to bring you to stillness eventually over time. Once you go into spontaneous state and find yourself going into stillness, that’s an indication that the process has run its course. (But you need to confirm that with your teacher)

[waterdrop]

I did vipasasna retreats  (mahasi sayadaw style) -     but that is just doing meditation all day long    -   so the meditation you do in daily life  just  more non stop  ................   so maybe that is the case with spontaneous  qigong  that if you do it in a retreat setting non stop you get to eliminate seeds as well ?


What about the aspect of feeling qi and flowing of qi  using spontaneous qigong  -  in comparison to other methods ?

Edited April 6, 2020 by waterdrop

[freeform]

3 hours ago, waterdrop said:

I did vipasasna retreats  (mahasi sayadaw style) -     but that is just doing meditation all day long    -   so the meditation you do in daily life  just  more non stop  ................   so maybe that is the case with spontaneous  qigong  that if you do it in a retreat setting non stop you get to eliminate seeds as well ?

 

In my experience, most people on Vipassana retreats end up processing surface level stuff - the same stuff that spontaneous qigong clears much more efficiently (in my opinion).

 

Once you are relatively clear from the spontaneous qigong - if your vipassana teacher is capable, they should be able to lead you to touch upon the karmic seeds. By remaining still and equanimous in the face of the karma arising in you (usually in the form of aversion or clinging) - you can create the conditions for this karma to be let go of automatically.

 

So the spontaneous qigong is able to clear many layers, to allow your awareness to penetrate 'deep' enough to touch upon the underlying karma.

 

If you see vipassana as just meditating all day, you're clearly missing an important element - which is to allow karmic seeds to arise in the light of your equanimous attention - and hopefully, fall away automatically.

 

3 hours ago, waterdrop said:

What about the aspect of feeling qi and flowing of qi  using spontaneous qigong  -  in comparison to other methods ?

 

"Feeling qi" is more complicated (as I explained before - you're usually feeling the side effects of qi - not qi directly). But spontaneous qigong is one of the best ways to 'activate' your energetic system and begin to move qi. Traditionally you'll later move on to more efficient methods - but they remain inaccessible if you haven't gone through the clearing process that spontaneous qigong creates.