Smoking-organic vs. not

[Taoist81]

Here and a few other places mention has been made of "additive free" or organic cigarettes being "safer" than regular cigarettes. The rationale has been that it is actually the additives that cause the problems with smoking. (Taomeow was one who mentioned this) Now, the abundance of research published shows that these types of cigarettes are just as (if not more) damaging as regular additive filled smokes. Usually this is swept away with the suggestion that these liberal (or right wing depending on who you ask) groups only publishing or promoting studies that support their cause (taking down Big tobacco, protecting children, mind control, whatever). This topic has recently come up in IRL conversation and as of yet, google etc. have revealed NO studies (as in zero) that actually support the idea that additive-free smokes are safer.

For those of you who support/believe this, could you provide some sources (please no anecdotal evidence, real studies)? It would be useful in this on going conversation. (A while back a reference was found that pipe smoking could be shown to be relatively safe, but that was not in reference to organic etc. cigarettes).

Thanks in advance.

[satyagraha]

I'm not much of an authority on this but...

 

any smoke entering your lungs is horrible for you, carbon monoxide and nicotine are very poisonous substances. just a thought...

[mwight]

I'm not much of an authority on this but...

 

any smoke entering your lungs is horrible for you, carbon monoxide and nicotine are very poisonous substances. just a thought...

 

well the natives who grew tobacco didn't seem to get lung cancer. Tobacco absorbs radioactive elements from artificial fertilizers and delivers the amount of radiation of 10 chest xrays per year per cigarette/day. So if you smoked 1 and 1/2 packs a day for a year it would be like 300 chest xrays worth of radiation exposure.

 

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2221.html

Edited March 11, 2008 by mwight

[Cameron]

I had quit smoking for 5 years and then about 4 months ago got on the natural tobacco cigarettes. I smoked them for 2 months and quit smoking again.

 

Smoking in moderation might be ok, but if your not an addict already I would say not smoking is the way to go. So glad I was able to quit.

[doc benway]

well the natives who grew tobacco didn't seem to get lung cancer.

Please elaborate, what natives do you refer to and what data do you have regarding their cancer rates?

[Buddy]

"well the natives who grew tobacco didn't seem to get lung cancer. "

 

I guess I'd have to ask you to site your source for this one. "Cancer" was unknown and the cause and long term effect of disease was mostly unknown "back then."

[Wayfarer64]

Once upon a day some long long time ago I smoked Hemp bud, no crap added...Club papers... I knew that if I didn't caugh I didn't get off. That was the cost and I accepted it...

 

A good cigar still hits the spot, but I only enjoy them a few times a year of late...

 

any habit is not for me, i do not much like ruts...

 

The only habits I can abide are the more elemental...food, warmth on a cold night -the sorts of things we are used to these days... as creature comforts go, mine are pretty simple.

[Taoist81]

I had quit smoking for 5 years and then about 4 months ago got on the natural tobacco cigarettes. I smoked them for 2 months and quit smoking again.

 

Smoking in moderation might be ok, but if your not an addict already I would say not smoking is the way to go. So glad I was able to quit.

 

We both smoke on special occasions but not on a day to day basis (anymore). This was just a topic that had come up here before, though never with citations.

[Eric23]

Please elaborate, what natives do you refer to and what data do you have regarding their cancer rates?

 

Their life spans were'nt long enough with all the other diseases and potential accidents and wars to actually die of lung cancer. Besides, breathing the smoke from the fire inside their living quarters proabably gave them emphazema first.

[Long Yun]

I don't smoke and I don't like it when other people smoke. It's just as bad for them as it is for me.

[Yoda]

Well, Edgar Cayce said that smoking natural tobacco is cool...

 

 

I'm viceless at the moment, sadly.

 

 

I'm encouraged that nice folks like the NY Governor is picking up the slack for me, so that's good.

[doc benway]

I'm viceless at the moment, sadly.

Hmmmm, some would say the spiritual/internet addiction is a vice...

[Stigweard]

Hmmmm, some would say the spiritual/internet addiction is a vice...

 

 

Oh dear ... does that mean we all need therapy?

[Eric23]

Oh dear ... does that mean we all need therapy?

 

Sad to say, yes

[satyagraha]

"well the natives who grew tobacco didn't seem to get lung cancer. "

 

I guess I'd have to ask you to site your source for this one. "Cancer" was unknown and the cause and long term effect of disease was mostly unknown "back then."

also, correct me if i'm wrong...but my understanding is that they used tobacco seldomly (compared to us), mostly for ceremonies and meetings...

[Taoist81]

Topping for Taomeow and others

[Taomeow]

Topping for Taomeow and others

 

I can usually tell an information-seeking question from a trick question from a rhetoric question (to which the questioning party already knows, or believes he/she knows, the answer) from someone's genuine interest in what's on my mind from someone's genuine desire to slam me no matter what's on my mind, and so on. Whichever of the above is your inquiry in your opinion, Taoist81?

 

Anyway... how about starting here:

 

http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/therap.htm

Edited March 14, 2008 by Taomeow

[Taoist81]

I can usually tell an information-seeking question from a trick question from a rhetoric question (to which the questioning party already knows, or believes he/she knows, the answer) from someone's genuine interest in what's on my mind from someone's genuine desire to slam me no matter what's on my mind, and so on. Whichever of the above is your inquiry in your opinion, Taoist81?

 

Anyway... how about starting here:

 

http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/therap.htm

 

Thanks, for the link Taomeow, time will be made to look it over, probably later today. If you have any other links please do post them, if you don't mind. As for personal opinions? During the referenced conversation the idea of organics being safer was being argued. It was the other party who was claiming that this position was unfounded. In that instance however, there was some playing the devil's advocate, primarily because of a lack of information, hence, this thread. No trick question, just seeing if anyone (and you specifically only because you had mentioned it off hand in a past thread) had references. Again, thanks for humoring the question despite your doubts as to its intent.

[dragonfire]

I think that anything used excessively is bad, even natural herbs.

 

For example, herbs have classifications into different treatments. Some for Yang

and some for Yin. If you take too much yang, you'll most likely be thrown

off kilter and become on fire, as you'll consume all the Yin. Take too

much Yin and it will consume all the Yang. If your body is off balance,

you'll develop cancer.

 

If you take it moderately, it can be a medicine. The indians saw it as a form

of medicine. Do you take medicine everyday? No. Just take it occasionally

to keep you balanced.

 

I see the same with Tobacco (natural with no additives just like the herbs you get

from your acupunturists). Smoke it moderately in the evenings, and not

everday will probably be good to help you relax.

 

The indians and asians have been smoking this since time immemorial.

 

Research is already out that Marijuana has no link with cancer.

 

Recently I saw a women live up to 114 years old. She smoked and drank

often too.

 

I used to smoke commerical sigs when I was sad, depressed, or traveling, but I will probably start

again using natural tobacco and using it only on certain occasions like

a few days a week in the evenings.

 

Cancer is caused by over exposure or in TCM terms, putting your body off

balance. Its like UV rays. Sit in the sun for 30min - 1 hr is ok and good for you, but

bake in it for a few hours, everday, you are asking for cancer. You'll also

get cancer from the chemicals in the unnatural sun products.

 

and of course, there is the spirit altering states of tobacco!

[Josh Young]

Natives did not smoke ciggarettes. They did not smoke Nicotiana tabacuum either, they smoked Nicotiana rustica, a different species.

They did not smoke every day, more like on special occasions and at times when it was needed for the effects they wanted.

 

 

While some asiatic cultures inhaled cannabis fumes put onto burners, most ate the plant. Smoking cannabis is less than 500 years old, as is the same with tobacco. In fact smoking was virtually unknown in the old world before Columbus. Still a lot of incense use undoubtedly resulted in inhaled fumes in the old world, though there are no pipes that archaeology has found. This is even true for opium use, which like hashish was classically eaten. However people were smoking for over 5000 years in the Americas

 

The same can be said for snuffing.

 

Several studies have shown that nicotine itself can cause cancer. However it is true that polonium isotopes play a role in tobacco related cancer rates due to the alpha emitter qualities of these isotopes. Moreover now that we are in the nuclear age we have radioactive dusts all over the planet. There is no spot in the US that does not have fallout from atomic weapons tests, the cancer rates of the US relate closely to this and the automotive industry including petrol consumption and freeways.

 

The modern hybrid of tobacco is not the same as the species widely used by natives. The real deal species is N rustica and it is actually much stronger than most commercial tobacco. The effects of it are rather neat and tobacco plays a major role in Andean Shamanism involving, vilca/yopo snuffs, ayahuasca and San Pedro. Most people who use ceremonial tobacco as N rustica is known tend to grow their own, if someone is interested in this I have some seeds of the Kessu strain that is the most northern growing strain, it is said to have been grown within 400 miles of the arctic circle. I grew some last year, but only saved seeds and did not use the plant. Nicotine can be absorbed through the skin though, since sacred tobacco is strong (2+% alkaloid) you must be careful or you can die handling it foolishly.

 

Cancer is complicated and there are dozens of forms. Some are highly preventable, some are not. Most active smokers I know are hikers and exercise quite a bit, they tend to be healthy. Some of my friends smoke more than they exercise and they tend to be unhealthy.

 

Botanical psychopharmacology is one of my specific areas of study. Particularly new world species.

 

I smoked fairly consistently for over a decade but quit about a year ago. I love the effects of tobacco, but I loathe cigarettes.

[everseeking]

Having had the pleasure of studying genetics for a short while under a very brilliant geneticist, I can paraphrase to you all these things--

 

1) there are natural carcinogens, as well as man made ones. THey all cause cancer.

 

2) Burning/charring of nearly all organic substances (if not all) produces benzopyrines-which are carcinogenic compoounds. When you produce them be charring meat, (well done or grilled with crispy black specks) it is bad for you, and may promote colon cancer when eaten life long.

 

3)Yes, inhaling any smoke regularly is bad. That may be offset slightly by the therapeutic side of the chemicals in some cases, but does not make it safer or good for you. As for the link above that pushes the benefits of smoking--silly. There are many poisonous substances which can save your life if you have certain medical conditions already--that does not mean they are safe in anyway for the healthy person. Nicotine has its uses. There are nicotinic acid receptors in the nervous system. I have heard from so many people about how 'its natural to smoke pot because there are cannabinoid receptors in your brain--well, there are also carbon monoxide receptors in your brain-does that mean you are 'supposed' to suffocate?

 

4) Just a thought--sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but tannic acid--found in many teas, has been linked with increased rates of esophageal cancer. Milk tends to neutralize its effects, so all you tea drinkers may want to splash a bit of milk in your tea. However, there may already be cancer fighting compounds in some of the primo teas you guys drink.

 

 

I agree, moderation is important--the earth wants us to die, eventually, and go back into it-our bodies. I just dont want to be rushed!!!

 

 

I didnt mean for this to all sound negative, or be a rant.

 

Peace & Happiness!

 

N-

[Aetherous]

Those who still smoke: check out electronic cigarettes.