Why basic knowledge of TCM is always needed

[exorcist_1699]

Taoism is the source of TCM ( Traditional Chinese Medicine ) .People who know some basic knowledge of TCM are definitely having the upper hand over those who are ignorant of it in practicing qi gong .

 

For example, knowing how the DU channel runs is always beneficial to practitioners , not because it allows you to lead qi running , but because it makes you a little more prepared. People who are familiar with the zhen-qi-Sheng framework , definitely , are more capable of dealing with strange and unexpected problems/troubles arising from our body or mind in the process of cultivation .

[Taoist81]

Not necessarily. There are plenty of students at school (a TCM college) that are clueless when presented with Qigong practices/theories. Not to mention that the way the Ren channel is taught traditionally would not allow for bringing qi "down" that channel. On the other hand, after studying some Taoist texts one can start to understand why you can tonify the Ren channel by needling at a downward angle, when that would normally be a reducing method.

[nils]

As a Shiatsu Therapist, studying TCM is extremely helpful. Not that we use it all the time, but it gives me more possibilities in the treatment.

 

I recently ordered the "Deadman's Bible" as I call it. The Manual of Acupuncture by Peter Deadman. Its the most complete reference book you can have, and the biggest

 

http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Acupuncture-2...3876&sr=1-1

Edited March 12, 2008 by nils

[松永道]

Not necessarily. There are plenty of students at school (a TCM college) that are clueless when presented with Qigong practices/theories. Not to mention that the way the Ren channel is taught traditionally would not allow for bringing qi "down" that channel. On the other hand, after studying some Taoist texts one can start to understand why you can tonify the Ren channel by needling at a downward angle, when that would normally be a reducing method.

 

TCM doctors who are clueless about qigong are best avoided. Chinese medicine is basically Daoist technology at it's best, and the writings of some clueless government flunky at worst. In other words, quality varies vastly. Most TCM texts are stripped of spiritual underpinnings. TCM theory is, after all, a product of Maoist materialism. Not that the materialist doctrine every really understood it, basically they just kept the literally material therapies: massage, acupuncture, herbs. TCM has been recovering and has reintroduced qigong, teaches Chinese cosmology, etc but these classes are emphasized nearly as much as cookbook acupuncture classes.

 

What that means on the Chinese mainland is you have two types of doctors. Doctors who practice qigong, neigong, a martial art and effectively learn via master/student education and doctors who just read the books, pass the tests, get the degree. For the first doctors, qigong and medicine are inseparable modes of cultivation. For the second doctors, Chinese medicine is just how they can make money.

 

Theres a saying here that middle level doctors have the knowledge to see the reflections of qi. Just as the moon (yin) reflects the light of the sun (yang). If you have been educated, the moon can tell you where the sun is. Reflections of qi are physical symptoms. They point tell you where the illness is. High level doctors see qi directly. The illness is entirely obvious, as the sun on a clear day. This is only accomplished through cultivation. Dao is the original liberal arts tradition. Medicine, martial arts, music, they all conform the law of nature. The emphasis is not on knowing but understanding. Understand the dynamic of qi transformation through one and it naturally translates (think of the natural connection between musical and mathematical mind).

 

Chinese medicine is (mostly) a product of these high level doctors. However, the knowledge of cultivation has always been closely guarded so even many classic books of medicine were written by doctors considered mid-level. And in the end, even texts written by the greats will never get you there. You need cultivation to reassemble their understanding. Without your own body laboratory you'll know a lot of words, theories, and methods without ever understanding what they mean. You wont know the "why", because it's not a word, it's an expanded experience of life. Of course, understanding is irrelevant to basic application, and so uncultivated doctors still get results through tried and tested cookbook methods. And as it's a 2000+ year empirical tradition, it's at least a pretty good cookbook. Nevertheless, cooking by recipe is hardly an art.

 

I digress. It really strikes me as silly though that you have people learning TCM, a medicine based on qi, could have no clue about qigong. That's like being an oceanographer whose never been to the ocean.

[Taoist81]

TCM doctors who are clueless about qigong are best avoided.

 

This is something that cannot be left without comment. While much of what your post says has salt grains of truth to it (like Taoists did contribute much, but certainly not all, to TCM), there are very effective TCM practitioners that know very little about qigong. Much of the research that has proven TCM's effectiveness has been done by those who have very little understanding of the mechanisms involved. Many of our teachers do suggest that acupuncturists who do some type of energy work (not necessarily traditional qigong) will get better results, it is clear that it is not a requirement.

Most of what TCM does (with the exception of qigong treatment) is mechanical. Much like affecting the gears inside a watch by moving the hands. Needles and herbs have huge effect on the body, whether or not the person inserting them or cooking them knows anything about it. This is why a good doctor can give a prescription (good diagnosis is something that cannot be downplayed) and have an assistant do the treatment and get great results, even if the assistant is not an "adept".

 

 

As a Shiatsu Therapist, studying TCM is extremely helpful. Not that we use it all the time, but it gives me more possibilities in the treatment.

 

I recently ordered the "Deadman's Bible" as I call it. The Manual of Acupuncture by Peter Deadman. Its the most complete reference book you can have, and the biggest

 

http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Acupuncture-2...3876&sr=1-1

 

That is a really good book. It seems like it should have superceded the CAM by now.

[松永道]

This is something that cannot be left without comment. While much of what your post says has salt grains of truth to it (like Taoists did contribute much, but certainly not all, to TCM), there are very effective TCM practitioners that know very little about qigong. Much of the research that has proven TCM's effectiveness has been done by those who have very little understanding of the mechanisms involved. Many of our teachers do suggest that acupuncturists who do some type of energy work (not necessarily traditional qigong) will get better results, it is clear that it is not a requirement.

Most of what TCM does (with the exception of qigong treatment) is mechanical. Much like affecting the gears inside a watch by moving the hands. Needles and herbs have huge effect on the body, whether or not the person inserting them or cooking them knows anything about it. This is why a good doctor can give a prescription (good diagnosis is something that cannot be downplayed) and have an assistant do the treatment and get great results, even if the assistant is not an "adept".

 

I'll reword, a TCM doctor ignorant of qigong is best avoided by someone here at Taobums in favor of a doctor who practices self cultivation. And you're right, diagnosis cannot be downplayed. Diagnosis is absolutely essential. And here is one area where qigong separates high level doctors from mid level doctors. A mid level doctor bases his point selection on knowledge of the points and combinations, a high level doctor sees feels and addresses the problem accordingly. I never said mid level doctors can't be effective. What I am saying is there is more room for error depending on the complexity of the condition.

 

Frankly, if your teachers tell you that you'll get better results if you practice energy work and some of your classmates still don't, that's their freedom of choice, and it's my freedom to avoid their care. I want a doctor who strives to be the best healer she can be. I know I do now and will continue to.

[Taoist81]

I'll reword, a TCM doctor ignorant of qigong is best avoided by someone here at Taobums in favor of a doctor who practices self cultivation. And you're right, diagnosis cannot be downplayed. Diagnosis is absolutely essential. And here is one area where qigong separates high level doctors from mid level doctors. A mid level doctor bases his point selection on knowledge of the points and combinations, a high level doctor sees feels and addresses the problem accordingly. I never said mid level doctors can't be effective. What I am saying is there is more room for error depending on the complexity of the condition.

 

Frankly, if your teachers tell you that you'll get better results if you practice energy work and some of your classmates still don't, that's their freedom of choice, and it's my freedom to avoid their care. I want a doctor who strives to be the best healer she can be. I know I do now and will continue to.

 

With that clarification it seems we can agree on most points One really worrisome thing is that more and more chiro's etc. are getting certification in acupuncture without even basic diagnosis training.

Also, it really seems that the person most affected by practicing TCM without any internal work is the practitioner (which of course ends up affecting the patient). On prof. the other night was commenting on how acupuncturists that don't at least meditate end up losing all of their energy.

[mbanu]

A lot of practitioners run hot as a byproduct of their training (or perhaps too little grounding?). An understanding of TCM would help them recognize the signs and adapt their diet accordingly.

[松永道]

A lot of practitioners run hot as a byproduct of their training (or perhaps too little grounding?). An understanding of TCM would help them recognize the signs and adapt their diet accordingly.

 

I agree mbanu. It's a symptom of American culture to rush things. A lot of symptoms, weird sensations, etc could be avoided if people just slowed down. And when these symptoms do occur, an ungrounded psyches can make them even bigger issues. Chinese medicine is a fine framework for experience, especially at the beginning stages of qi development. It does a great job of plugging the holes (one daoist told me that ghosts feed off qi leakage) and establishing the Jing.

 

Jing development, from what I've seen, is what's most overlooked by western students. In many cases, being ungrounded is what draws people to qigong in the first place. Chinese medicine would describe as overactive 魂 (hun, yang soul, non-corporeal soul) and/or under active 魄 (po, yin soul, animal soul). Like a tree with branches too big for it's roots. There are two solutions, cut the branches down (stop being so spiritually minded), or grow the roots (develop the body). But to continue qi development when the Jing is insufficient leads to bigger problems.

 

Jing is like the power line, qi is the power. Too much power running through weak wires runs hot and will start a fire. Jing is developed through adequate sleep, good diet, a natural routine, and physical exercise. Oh and not too much ejaculation for us men (although sexual arousal develops Jing). Jing is yin and grounding compared to qi and it is also the source of qi. I know when I first awakened to the qi world I wanted to feel more, see more, heal people, go on spirit travel adventures, all that cool fantastic stuff; proper eating, exercise, sleep and routine were the least of my interests. But they are the foundation. What to build a skyscraper? Better make sure you've got a damn big foundation.

 

Ok I got side tracked. Back to Chinese medicine. Chinese medicine provides intellectual framework for normal body conditions from sick to healthy. Other Daoist work (Buddhist, yogic, I'm not picky) provide the framework for a healthy body to a cultivated body. Experience provides the understanding. Knowledge and understanding. Yin and yang. Yin transforms to Yang which transforms to Yin, back to Yang... a growing upward spiral.

 

Chinese medicine is definitely worth learning for any serious qigong practitioner. Maybe not the application, but certainly the theory.

[exorcist_1699]

Unless you deny the existence of qi, otherwise the most delicate theoretical system that built on it, ie, TCM, has to be comprehend . Qi ,when it is outside of human body , looks simple and pure ; however ,once it is materialized in human body , it changes into a complicated system . Many layers arise ; we have qi split into male and female, qi embodied in different functional organs: heart, liver, stomach... ;Also, we have to consider how qi moves in a time frame, ie, the effects of seasons and daily hours on it .

 

During your qigong practice, why sometime you can be sleepless for several nights without feeling tired; why sometime you can keep on eating endlessly without being stuffed; why taming the" white tiger" is crucial , otherwise, your effort , no matter how many years it has been , is doomed to be fruitless; why you always look young for decades , and others decade just in few years ; why understand the movement of the moon is important....all these issues are mentioned , more or less , in the writings of TCM , not necessarily directly, but sometimes in the form of medical cases.

 

The deeper theoretical insight you have, the higher level of pratice you get.

Edited March 15, 2008 by exorcist_1699