Martial Discussion Split from Taiji Fights

[Earl Grey]

 

 

 

Taken from the original thread at https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/50769-taiji-fights/:

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

So much of this is familiar with what I practice , but mine isnt known as Tai Chi .

 

 

I'd love to analyse this more  but dont want to derail further .  Earl, could you move these to a new thread for discussion ?

 

Cloud Hands , I have some experience in what you asked about , but cant really describe what I did as 'Tai Chi' . My situation was, I was on a forest protest and we got invaded by a bunch of redneck drunks from one direction and a bunch of loggers from the other .

 

What stood out for me in this thread , in relation to that was what Earl Grey said   ;   "There's a certain point that all your skills become one and it's hard to see where one style ends and another begins. "

 

 and also your ; 

 

 

13 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

My own experience is that it is like a zip file in your computer. All of what i learned compresses itself and only comes out or un archives itself when there’s actual conflict.

 

A guy who was about 188cm to my 171cm tried to attack me at a bar and the sensing hands came out instinctively, then did things I never even learned formally when he resorted to kicking and cheap shots. He never got a single hit in and was bruised for some reason because my body was on autopilot and I was apparently doing three things at a time without knowing what I did untjl afterwards.

 

3 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

There's a certain point that all your skills become one and it's hard to see where one style ends and another begins. 

 

I mostly did hard styles like Muay Thai and BJJ but I hadn't done them since 2009 when I had surgery, which is why I went into Taijiquan and other internal styles, and by the time I started learning Xin Yi (Yi Quan and Liuhebafa) and Baguazhang, I found them as no more than just extensions of the foundation I built in Taijiquan as I don't turn off Taijiquan to do Liuhebafa and so forth. 

 

 

So here is where @Nungali and I are splitting off to discuss the above videos and what I originally posted that caught his attention. 

[Nungali]

Thanks E.G.

 

But I am just about to go off line  - sun is over the hill and I fell to do some forking    (in the veggie garden ) .

 

I'll leave this for now ; in regard to the first video .  we have a move exactly like that step and apply pressure from knee to others  knee to disrupt balance  while doing other techniques using the arms at the same time  . Actually there are a few variations like it with similar 'stepping in' moves . 

 

'Moro'   flow footwork like this is  - Very interesting !  I will post vid later .

 

One thing that stood out for me is what often i see that 'tai chi step' with the heel down first  ( I asked friend who does tai chi but he couldnt answer ), that demo gave a good answer.  But I cant help noticing, why does the other guy step in with a locked leg and not a slightly bent knee ? Thats asking for it !    We dont step in heel first and lock the foot around the back of the others , and the other does not have a straight leg either  but it works   just by applying sideways outer pressure to the others knee .

 

I am a notorious toe stepper   as well       One technique I just developed  is to step on the lead toes and then quickly do a little  flick toe kick up wards to catch the base of the others kneecap with my big toe . A variation is stopping a kick  like that , except here , as the other kicks in, I do a quick flick kick with my heel so it catches the bottom edge of their kneecap as they kick in, my kick is kicking the kneecap up as their kick extends the leg and moves their kneecap into a more horizontal position, both forces work together to drive the kneecap up the leg .  ( You have to make sure you pre-empt their kick and you foot is above theirs and the end of their kicking motion, their foot will be below yours - of course ) .

 

More later - gotta go .

[Earl Grey]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

One thing that stood out for me is what often i see that 'tai chi step' with the heel down first  ( I asked friend who does tai chi but he couldnt answer ), that demo gave a good answer.  But I cant help noticing, why does the other guy step in with a locked leg and not a slightly bent knee ? Thats asking for it ! 

 

Aside from possibly demonstration purposes? I've also seen people in fights who get careless and step in with locked legs as in the heat of a conflict, nobody rises to the occasion, they sink to the level of their training. There's also the hunger to win, how crazy you are, and how focused you are, which to me, are crucial for a fight rather than a system or style. Some systems and styles help feed these more than others for each individual, and some individuals align with those practices better. One guy I know does Filipino Martial Arts and Javanese Pencak Silat, and it works for him because he's totally ruthless and aggressive when he does finger locks and scratches or destroying joints--until he met some of my friends in Bagua and Taiji who used sticking techniques and strafing to avoid letting him use his main advantage and strategy. 

 

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

We dont step in heel first and lock the foot around the back of the others , and the other does not have a straight leg either  but it works   just by applying sideways outer pressure to the others knee .

 

I've seen this in Aikido and Judo. One day, when I have time after having been given blessings from my teacher saying that I have finished and have a degree of proficiency that allows me to learn more from my own creativity and experimenting than he can with guiding me step by step, I will pursue Judo and Kyokushin Karate to add to my "mental zip file" of styles.

 

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

I am a notorious toe stepper   as well       One technique I just developed  is to step on the lead toes and then quickly do a little  flick toe kick up wards to catch the base of the others kneecap with my big toe .

 

I knew a guy from Indonesia who would stamp on the front toes while simultaneously doing a palm up strike to the chin or the nose. Crazy dude....

 

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

A variation is stopping a kick  like that , except here , as the other kicks in, I do a quick flick kick with my heel so it catches the bottom edge of their kneecap as they kick in, my kick is kicking the kneecap up as their kick extends the leg and moves their kneecap into a more horizontal position, both forces work together to drive the kneecap up the leg .  ( You have to make sure you pre-empt their kick and you foot is above theirs and the end of their kicking motion, their foot will be below yours - of course ) .

 

I think I get what you're talking about and sure wouldn't want to get caught on the receiving end of this, especially after having had ACL surgery before! 

[dwai]

Forward stepping is done heel first to ensure we are not committing to the step until it is “safe” to land. 
 

Reverse stepping is done ball of the foot first and for the same reason.
 

[Nungali]

The 2nd video .

 

This one is familiar too .  The nice Aikido way is to let them roll out backwards , but the way we do it is slightly different , move a bit different, the left leg is bent more and the other is taken down so they land on their back across your knee .

 

 

@1:14   sometimes I might strike first with the elbow . Or the left might come in with a 'floating ribs / kidney ' strike, right on others wrist then left from their ribs up to their elbow and 'crank' their arm  (as if you are making their fist punch itself into their face ) and then draw their arm back out and down, bringing their head down and then kick your big toe into their eye socket . if they see that coming and turn their head away, that will expose the point behind the jaw under the ear for the same kick .

 

Or, closer to what is shown in the vid , from a down cut with a sword  ...

go to 0:26 slomo -  except meet the down coming strike ( as you evade, of course, like in the above ) your left arm comes right over to meet your right (which is now twisting the others wrist) and jerks back to give a face elbow strike and then sort of rolls around to make a type of reverse headlock and you drop to one knee, breaking his shoulder across your knee .

 

 will catch up on these other posts before I post about the other vids ..

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, dwai said:

Forward stepping is done heel first to ensure we are not committing to the step until it is “safe” to land. 

 

Why cant this be done with the  ball of the foot ?    It is part of the practice of 'Rohai'  ( heron ) form ; 8th move , you step forward and as your foot touches the ground you quickly step back again and move into the classic Rohai stance.  Its  a practice to develop  a quick 'retreat' when you have started to move forward , or 1/2 way through moving forward . 

 

Does not a quick step back , when it is 'not safe to land' depend more on how weight is distributed and managed , other than what part of the lead foot touches the ground first ?

 

 

 

10 hours ago, dwai said:

 

 

 

Reverse stepping is done ball of the foot first and for the same reason.
 

 

  its rather tricky back stepping with the heel heel down first 

 

[Starjumper]

14 minutes ago, Nungali said:

oink, oink

 

Hey Oinkly, this is a Taoist forum, this thread is about tai chi, and not your lame ways.  Lumbering Lumoxes can do moves similar to what tai chi has, but it is always in their crude external style.  They have great difficulty learning the subtlety of the internal aspects, particularly when they are as old and crude as Numb Nutz.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Starjumper

[Nungali]

Thank you for the demonstration of who is actually    crude  here .  

[Starjumper]

3 minutes ago, Nungali said:

crying now

 

What's the matter, Turd Eye, don't you like your own medicine?  I repeat, this is a Taoist forum, this thread is about tai chi, not your lame shit.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Starjumper

[Nungali]

Oh dear , every time he opens his mouth trying to 'dis' me, he just further exposes how stupid he is !

 

THIS particular thread was made for the explicate purpose  to examine exactly what we are talking about here .

 

Thats why it was split off from the tai chi thread - you idiot !

 

Try actually reading the first post ;  

 

" So here is where @Nungali and I are splitting off to discuss the above videos and what I originally posted that caught his attention. 

[dwai]

17 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Why cant this be done with the  ball of the foot ?    It is part of the practice of 'Rohai'  ( heron ) form ; 8th move , you step forward and as your foot touches the ground you quickly step back again and move into the classic Rohai stance.  Its  a practice to develop  a quick 'retreat' when you have started to move forward , or 1/2 way through moving forward . 

Tai chi stepping is done to maintain a single plane (no bobbing up and down)...and often involves rapid acceleration using what is called "attaching steps"...the stepping is done on a single plane to avoid telegraphing during movement, and to propel the structure intact, the heel first approach is very necessary. Moving with the ball of the feet first is structurally unbalanced, unless one has the balance of a ballerina, for the tendency would be to be to topple forward (the way I see it). 

 

Boxers tend to step with their toes leading iinm, because it helps them generate power by pivoting on the ball of the front foot (for something like a hook for example). Taijiquan power isn't generated that way. Taijiquan power is full body power (at a basic level). 

 

I've had many years of Goju Ryu karate before I took up taijiquan, and we'd move exactly the same way in karate as well...heel first forward, ball first backward.

17 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Does not a quick step back , when it is 'not safe to land' depend more on how weight is distributed and managed , other than what part of the lead foot touches the ground first ?

It seems like the eastern martial arts in general seem to have a different philosophy when it comes to proprioception. Consider for a moment that most martial arts evolved to empty-hand combat down from weapons-based combat -- it makes sense to move heel-first, because you don't want the combined weight of your body and the weapon (which can weigh between 4-20 lbs) along with armor etc to topple you over. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. 

17 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

  its rather tricky back stepping with the heel heel down first 

 

 Actually we have that kind of stepping too...but the entire foot glides on the ground (no weight on the moving foot). We do move forward too in a similar way (but usually not the lead foot). 

[Nungali]

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

Tai chi stepping is done to maintain a single plane (no bobbing up and down)...and often involves rapid acceleration using what is called "attaching steps"...the stepping is done on a single plane to avoid telegraphing during movement, and to propel the structure intact, the heel first approach is very necessary.

 

Yes, we move the same way except do not see the heel first approach as necessary for it, from that explanation . 

 

One difference might be the unusual way our teacher stepped , very 'up and down' not at all like the 'sliding step'  one often sees in martial arts ( I call it 'dojo footwork) teacher, teaching an old 'fighting form / SD'  , training and fighting would be done outdoors, over rough and uneven ground and balance was considered 'core'  ( his teacher / Uncle  Hohan Soken would be made to train on a floating log - by his teacher Uncle Nabe Matsamura , sometimes he would jump on the log too and attack him ) .  He would snap into a position and from there ( for a micro second) one could never tell if he was going to continue stepping forward, sideward, backward, kick, jump, etc .

 

I guess what you are explaining cant really be explained in mere words , you would have to show me and physically demonstrate it

 

 

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

 

Moving with the ball of the feet first is structurally unbalanced, unless one has the balance of a ballerina, for the tendency would be to be to topple forward (the way I see it). 

 

yeah , but WHY is it 'structurally unbalanced ' ?  To me that answer is like  "it would not work properly otherwise '  ..... but  WHY  ?

 

 

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

 

Boxers tend to step with their toes leading iinm, because it helps them generate power by pivoting on the ball of the front foot (for something like a hook for example). Taijiquan power isn't generated that way. Taijiquan power is full body power (at a basic level). 

 

You cant get full body by using 'body torque '  ???   I am no sports physician , but it seems people like Bruce Lee could generate an awful lot of body power the way they moved .  

 

Also  one of my training partners that is in my club doesnt step in like that .... come to think of it, if he did ,   he probably has already worked out what I would do to him, which is why he doesnt do it .  In any case , he is probably a better person to ask about this toe up thing .

 

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

 

I've had many years of Goju Ryu karate before I took up taijiquan, and we'd move exactly the same way in karate as well...heel first forward, ball first backward.

 

Whaaaaat ?    Hang on ......

 

 

Just 1 of many I just rechecked

 

 

 

 

You would have to put an example of that in goju to convince me .

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

It seems like the eastern martial arts in general seem to have a different philosophy when it comes to proprioception. Consider for a moment that most martial arts evolved to empty-hand combat down from weapons-based combat -- it makes sense to move heel-first, because you don't want the combined weight of your body and the weapon (which can weigh between 4-20 lbs) along with armor etc to topple you over. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

I do weaponry too , no forms in weaponry I do have heel first stepping as in tai chi .

 

You COULD  be wrong 

 

 

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

 Actually we have that kind of stepping too...but the entire foot glides on the ground (no weight on the moving foot). We do move forward too in a similar way (but usually not the lead foot). 

 

[Earl Grey]

13 hours ago, Nungali said:

The 2nd video .

 

This one is familiar too .  The nice Aikido way is to let them roll out backwards , but the way we do it is slightly different , move a bit different, the left leg is bent more and the other is taken down so they land on their back across your knee .

 

 

@1:14   sometimes I might strike first with the elbow . Or the left might come in with a 'floating ribs / kidney ' strike, right on others wrist then left from their ribs up to their elbow and 'crank' their arm  (as if you are making their fist punch itself into their face ) and then draw their arm back out and down, bringing their head down and then kick your big toe into their eye socket . if they see that coming and turn their head away, that will expose the point behind the jaw under the ear for the same kick .

 

Or, closer to what is shown in the vid , from a down cut with a sword  ...

go to 0:26 slomo -  except meet the down coming strike ( as you evade, of course, like in the above ) your left arm comes right over to meet your right (which is now twisting the others wrist) and jerks back to give a face elbow strike and then sort of rolls around to make a type of reverse headlock and you drop to one knee, breaking his shoulder across your knee .

 

 will catch up on these other posts before I post about the other vids ..

 

It's a very natural movement once you get it, so it's no surprise it looks common to what you learned in Aikido, and your own natural instinct as a martial artist. 

 

In my own experience when I used to train in Silat and Eskrima, there would be a few extra beats like a quick strike to the bicep, then one to the face. 

 

And what you describe as alternate to what is in 0:26 is a rotation kind of movement I've seen used before during one of our applications, particularly when looking for control. I see it a lot in Wing Chun actually. 

[Earl Grey]

13 hours ago, Nungali said:

Why cant this be done with the  ball of the foot ?    It is part of the practice of 'Rohai'  ( heron ) form ; 8th move , you step forward and as your foot touches the ground you quickly step back again and move into the classic Rohai stance.  Its  a practice to develop  a quick 'retreat' when you have started to move forward , or 1/2 way through moving forward . 

 

Does not a quick step back , when it is 'not safe to land' depend more on how weight is distributed and managed , other than what part of the lead foot touches the ground first ?

 

In Liuhebafa and Bagua, at least how I learned, you can step both toe first or heel first, depending on the technique. Also, as I learned a special kind of Yang under Glenn and Eric, there is likely some differences between the Temple style that dwai does. 

[Earl Grey]

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

You cant get full body by using 'body torque '  ???   I am no sports physician , but it seems people like Bruce Lee could generate an awful lot of body power the way they moved .  

 

Also  one of my training partners that is in my club doesnt step in like that .... come to think of it, if he did ,   he probably has already worked out what I would do to him, which is why he doesnt do it .  In any case , he is probably a better person to ask about this toe up thing .

 

 

There's a training technique where we use cat stance and empty stance for a special kind of Zhan Zhuang, which when done long enough, makes you springy like Bruce Lee, powers your kicks, and improves your balance greatly. When combined with foot work and Bagua circle walking, it makes dodging and flowing a lot more natural. I'm not at that point yet as I don't have many training partners these days with my teachers out of town and other students now doing online work, but this is where shadow boxing really is crucial for when training, and I can't emphasize enough how important shadow boxing is across styles, whether they are internal or external. 

[Starjumper]

8 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

There's a training technique where we use cat stance and empty stance for a special kind of Zhan Zhuang, which when done long enough, makes you springy like Bruce Lee, powers your kicks, and improves your balance greatly. When combined with foot work and Bagua circle walking, it makes dodging and flowing a lot more natural. I'm not at that point yet as I don't have many training partners these days with my teachers out of town and other students now doing online work, but this is where shadow boxing really is crucial for when training, and I can't emphasize enough how important shadow boxing is across styles, whether they are internal or external. 

 

Come to Ecuador some day and we can share some of the nastier techniques, including power methods.

[Starjumper]

20 hours ago, Nungali said:

One difference might be the unusual way our teacher stepped , very 'up and down'

 

What a dolt, prancing around like a horse with an overblown ego. That must be to telegraph your intentions to observant people, something you're good at anyway.

 

20 hours ago, Nungali said:

\not at all like the 'sliding step'  one often sees in martial arts ( I call it 'dojo footwork) teacher, teaching an old 'fighting form / SD'  , training and fighting would be done outdoors, over rough and uneven ground and balance was considered 'core' 

 

A core of stupidity.  How ridiculous can you get?

[Nungali]

The third video;  at 1:10 is also a familiar move from some of our practices and  similar to a techniques in Aikido .

 

Imagine if  Sifu H's right arm was extended down with his elbow  rotated slightly outward and his palm just out from the others navel. Any rotation he does will send the other flying. Or he could lift his right arm up from this position and rotate the others wrist with his left hand  making him go up on tip toes and lead him to where he wants or 'surge ahead' and 'cartwheel throw' the other  ( a typical aikido application), or duck under pass through and twist to get a wrist take down, again as in aikido . 

 

It can be done from a grab (as they do in  aikido )   , then it can be  a twisting 'throw off'.  

 

The 4th video  interested me a lot , a see a lot of similarities in there but what really interested was the sequence  from 0:48 - a series of 'knock downs' against a flurry of punches (ending in the 'arm lock' throw ) .    In our  last form 'Crane' - Hakatsuru it has a series of arm movements like that as you are stepping back, 3 times , in a normal front stance but then the  next step starts as if you are moving back into a front stance again but you switch and move by stepping slightly more and rotating into a horse stance .

 

That series of moves ( and a few others in the form ) did not seem to have an application, or it was unknown or lost .  So I went on a hunting mission to find others who had learnt that form to piece it together . Anyway, what I came up with was a move very similar to what Sifu H is showing . I developed that as I  had started training   with a  Wing Chunger ( now on hold due to  CV)  who would come at me in a straight line with a series of fast rolling punches , the move seemed to fit in perfectly with that and be able to counter them, but also  it works in a curious way as well , I have seen Bruce Lee do a set up like this 'switching '  (albeit in 'fight choreography ' )   ; you do the same thing  to 'set up a pattern' 2 or 3 times and the opponent is expecting another one but you switch it at the last moment .

 

In hakatsuru , you move back on their  line of attack , deflecting but the last one into horse stance is moved  off line of attack and they pass you ,  and you do a 'shuto' (which in our style of not a 'knife hand block' but more of one hand deflects an attack while the other rolls over the top for a finger strike into the eye ) it all flows naturally and its like the other person just walks straight into it  . The footwork, movement, distancing, etc all work out neatly .  Except Sifu H ends it with slipping into an arm lock throw , which also looks familiar  as we do that in response to a different attack .

 

My conclusion is this type of Tai Chi , being a combat style  is similar to what I do as that is a combat style too and similar to SOME types of aikido that is also 'combat style '  ( not many people are familiar with this form of aikido, most aikido is NOT combat style at all .... since it got changed after the Japanese defeat WWII and American occupation of Japan ) and , basically  ANY system that is combat style .

 

Once I was watching those Mediaeval re-enactment battlers  ( done a tiny bit of that - fun )  one guy was great !   I saw many familiar  moves  at the time I was fairly new ( a few years) into Aikido  and I excitedly asked him afterwards if he had done any Aikido training and he responded ; 'Nah !  Look, after a while when you get familiar with combat you realise we are all constricted the same  way with the same skeleton and joints that move the same way and physical principles are constant  so it all  nearly comes out the same ."  With individual variation of course , I like  Sifu H 's variation; calm , powerful, centred, near effortless 

 

It was very interesting to watch those , thanks Earl .

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

29 minutes ago, Nungali said:

The third video;  at 1:10 is also a familiar move from some of our practices and  similar to a techniques in Aikido .

 

Imagine if  Sifu H's right arm was extended down with his elbow  rotated slightly outward and his palm just out from the others navel. Any rotation he does will send the other flying. Or he could lift his right arm up from this position and rotate the others wrist with his left hand  making him go up on tip toes and lead him to where he wants or 'surge ahead' and 'cartwheel throw' the other  ( a typical aikido application), or duck under pass through and twist to get a wrist take down, again as in aikido . 

 

It can be done from a grab (as they do in  aikido )   , then it can be  a twisting 'throw off'.  

 

Sigong Glenn would be very happy to have drinks with you and discuss this kind of thing all day since it's the same root technique that leads to dozens of variations.  I've seen the Aikido technique you discuss before from the few times I've attempted to learn before either the instructors left or I moved. 

 

31 minutes ago, Nungali said:

The 4th video  interested me a lot , a see a lot of similarities in there but what really interested was the sequence  from 0:48 - a series of 'knock downs' against a flurry of punches (ending in the 'arm lock' throw ) .    In our  last form 'Crane' - Hakatsuru it has a series of arm movements like that as you are stepping back, 3 times , in a normal front stance but then the  next step starts as if you are moving back into a front stance again but you switch and move by stepping slightly more and rotating into a horse stance .

 

That movement in the video was Cloud Hands primarily. It's a great technique that is common in Taijiquan, and can lead to things like Ward Off, Repulse Monkey, Single Whip/Parting the Horse Mane--at a certain point, the movements in Yang 108 and the variation I learned, you can go out of order and transition from one move to any move since it doesn't have to be chronological. For example, if I did a move, say for example #33, I could easily flow next into #87 or #2 as I could into #34, and it would really just be a matter of knowing flow and transition, which is even more pronounced in the significantly longer Liuhebafa which is about 500 moves, but also a lot of repetition and variation. 

 

34 minutes ago, Nungali said:

That series of moves ( and a few others in the form ) did not seem to have an application, or it was unknown or lost .  So I went on a hunting mission to find others who had learnt that form to piece it together . Anyway, what I came up with was a move very similar to what Sifu H is showing . I developed that as I  had started training   with a  Wing Chunger ( now on hold due to  CV)  who would come at me in a straight line with a series of fast rolling punches , the move seemed to fit in perfectly with that and be able to counter them, but also  it works in a curious way as well , I have seen Bruce Lee do a set up like this 'switching '  (albeit in 'fight choreography ' )   ; you do the same thing  to 'set up a pattern' 2 or 3 times and the opponent is expecting another one but you switch it at the last moment .

 

Sounds to me like chain punching, which from what I have seen and done with my old Wing Chun Sifu is usually done when the opponent is already in your control, pounding down into the head or the side after they've been trapped by footwork. 

 

Similarly, in Xingyi (not Xin Yi), this is also a lot like the Crushing/Wood Fist, a straight line and is what the style is known for that can cause people to fly if they develop enough peng and jin. 

 

37 minutes ago, Nungali said:

In hakatsuru , you move back on their  line of attack , deflecting but the last one into horse stance is moved  off line of attack and they pass you ,  and you do a 'shuto' (which in our style of not a 'knife hand block' but more of one hand deflects an attack while the other rolls over the top for a finger strike into the eye ) it all flows naturally and its like the other person just walks straight into it  . The footwork, movement, distancing, etc all work out neatly .  Except Sifu H ends it with slipping into an arm lock throw , which also looks familiar  as we do that in response to a different attack .

 

That's the great kind of awareness that these styles have: you can let an opponent stick to their programmed script and basically troll them if they don't have intelligent muscle, flow, or awareness to deviate from their conditioning. 

 

39 minutes ago, Nungali said:

My conclusion is this type of Tai Chi , being a combat style  is similar to what I do as that is a combat style too and similar to SOME types of aikido that is also 'combat style '  ( not many people are familiar with this form of aikido, most aikido is NOT combat style at all .... since it got changed after the Japanese defeat WWII and American occupation of Japan ) and , basically  ANY system that is combat style .

 

Happy to trade techniques and grab some drinks sometime whenever I make it out there to visit my Bagua Sifu and my relatives in Sydney. 

 

39 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Once I was watching those Mediaeval re-enactment battlers  ( done a tiny bit of that - fun )  one guy was great !   I saw many familiar  moves  at the time I was fairly new ( a few years) into Aikido  and I excitedly asked him afterwards if he had done any Aikido training and he responded ; 'Nah !  Look, after a while when you get familiar with combat you realise we are all constricted the same  way with the same skeleton and joints that move the same way and physical principles are constant  so it all  nearly comes out the same ."  With individual variation of course , I like  Sifu H 's variation; calm , powerful, centred, near effortless 

 

I view learning martial arts like learning languages: you communicate with your body and then learn to get creative, turning martial combat into martial arts just like poetry in motion. The same can be said for dance and of course, the mating dance game men and women play with each other....Except that former example is totally affected by people losing touch with their bodies and others from our sedentary urban lifestyles since the latter half of the 20th century at least.

 

41 minutes ago, Nungali said:

It was very interesting to watch those , thanks Earl .

 

 

Hey, we can discuss more of these any time; Sifus Eric and Glenn have more videos if you want. 

 

Interestingly, your local legend, Erl Montaigue, after passing, many of his students went to my Bagua Sifu, John Dolic, in Sydney.

 

More of Glenn's work to start: 

 

 

 

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

Come to Ecuador some day and we can share some of the nastier techniques, including power methods.

 

On my list to do as I am always happy to travel and meet other members of the board to both learn from and teach! Besides, I have a few friends in Vila Cabamba, though most have left already, some moving here to Manila of all places! 

[Nungali]

 

4 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Sigong Glenn would be very happy to have drinks with you and discuss this kind of thing all day since it's the same root technique that leads to dozens of variations.  I've seen the Aikido technique you discuss before from the few times I've attempted to learn before either the instructors left or I moved. 

 

 

That movement in the video was Cloud Hands primarily. It's a great technique that is common in Taijiquan, and can lead to things like Ward Off, Repulse Monkey, Single Whip/Parting the Horse Mane--at a certain point, the movements in Yang 108 and the variation I learned, you can go out of order and transition from one move to any move since it doesn't have to be chronological. For example, if I did a move, say for example #33, I could easily flow next into #87 or #2 as I could into #34, and it would really just be a matter of knowing flow and transition, which is even more pronounced in the significantly longer Liuhebafa which is about 500 moves, but also a lot of repetition and variation. 

 

 

Sounds to me like chain punching, which from what I have seen and done with my old Wing Chun Sifu is usually done when the opponent is already in your control, pounding down into the head or the side after they've been trapped by footwork. 

 

Similarly, in Xingyi (not Xin Yi), this is also a lot like the Crushing/Wood Fist, a straight line and is what the style is known for that can cause people to fly if they develop enough peng and jin. 

 

 

That's the great kind of awareness that these styles have: you can let an opponent stick to their programmed script and basically troll them if they don't have intelligent muscle, flow, or awareness to deviate from their conditioning. 

 

 

Happy to trade techniques and grab some drinks sometime whenever I make it out there to visit my Bagua Sifu and my relatives in Sydney. 

 

 

I'll PM you about that .

 

 

Quote

 

 

I view learning martial arts like learning languages: you communicate with your body and then learn to get creative, turning martial combat into martial arts just like poetry in motion. The same can be said for dance and of course, the mating dance game men and women play with each other....Except that former example is totally affected by people losing touch with their bodies and others from our sedentary urban lifestyles since the latter half of the 20th century at least.

 

 

Hey, we can discuss more of these any time; Sifus Eric and Glenn have more videos if you want. 

 

Interestingly, your local legend, Erl Montaigue, after passing, many of his students went to my Bagua Sifu, John Dolic, in Sydney.

 

More of Glenn's work to start: 

 

 

 

 

Cool ... we can trade 'neck breaking techniques'     

 

I forgot I said i was going to post more about 'legwork' techniques  .   I've posted these before and they demo a few good ones, the training is in a type of slo-mo   'flow' form / drill.

 

My Sikiran training was  loooooong ago   however . (Man could those guys kick !  One guy there could do a reverse crescent kick from a totally casual standing position and slap me upside the head with head it before I could even react .  I saw him try it on Albert (the head Sikiran instructor for Oz , at the time ) and Albert just swung his own leg straight up vertical, hard bocking the reverse crescent and then bringing his heel down in an axe kick glancing off the side of the others head  and then did a flurry of other kicks into I couldnt even tell what they where  and then he "What have I told you about using that kick ! "    (apparently instructor didnt like that kick as it left an opening , as he demonstrated ) .  Anyway  , Sikiran legwork

 

 

 

 

and ... start from   1:00

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Nungali

[Nungali]

... a bit of 'heel stepping with the toes up'   in that  !   ^     

[Earl Grey]

19 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I forgot I said i was going to post more about 'legwork' techniques  .   I've posted these before and they demo a few good ones, the training is in a type of slo-mo   'flow' form / drill.

 

My Sikiran training was  loooooong ago   however . (Man could those guys kick !  One guy there could do a reverse crescent kick from a totally casual standing position and slap me upside the head with head it before I could even react .  I saw him try it on Albert (the head Sikiran instructor for Oz , at the time ) and Albert just swung his own leg straight up vertical, hard bocking the reverse crescent and then bringing his heel down in an axe kick glancing off the side of the others head  and then did a flurry of other kicks into I couldnt even tell what they where  and then he "What have I told you about using that kick ! "    (apparently instructor didnt like that kick as it left an opening , as he demonstrated ) .  Anyway  , Sikiran legwork

 

 

 

 

I've seen this before. From a lot of FMA, I've encountered Illustrisimo and "Bahala Na" styles, Tabimina, and a few other names a I can't remember. The Filipino diaspora has people who don't normally interact with each other get together and led to some uniquely Fil-Am and Fil-Oz styles that fuse different styles together, as someone in the northern part of the archipelago would never know anything about how people fight in the southern part, and even within the same region, there are a ton of variations. One has you carrying the sticks or knives with the knife gripped like a sword and pointed upwards, the other hand gripped with the blade pointed downwards more for slashing. Another variation grips the sticks as though one were a walking cane in one hand and the other like a sword. Those are great for sowing confusion, and how they also extend their arms differently. 

 

...Maybe I should finish some FMA training here for a couple years after Xin Yi before I get into Judo and Kyokushin.

 

23 minutes ago, Nungali said:

and ... start from   1:00

 

 

 

 

Hey, I think I've met some of these guys when I lived in the Bay Area! Also, I've done some variation when learning a kind of variation of Silat that had a lot of FMA in it and vice-versa, since there's a lot of overlap, especially for southern FMA styles due to having more interaction with traders in the Majapahit times who carried the local styles between modern day Malaysia, Indonesia, and Philippines. 

[estrangero]

You're in luck EG.  There's a Kyokushin school in Mile Long in Makati.  Also I believe that Mr. Elrik Jundis has trained Visayan Corto Kadena Escrima.