Spinal Breathing Gives Kundalini Awakening

[freeform]

38 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

we should be hacking this stuff as much as we can to figure out what gets us the results that we want

 

 

Not trolling - I promise.

 

Just a funny example of someone hacking their body to get the results he wants. (He injected oil into his arms)

 

It's funny, gross and tragic - but it highlights how 'what we want' is often so completely delusional and based on a very narrow perspective - and we don't even realise it.

[gatito]

4 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Not trolling - I promise.

 

Just a funny example of someone hacking their body to get the results he wants. (He injected oil into his arms)

 

It's funny, gross and tragic - but it highlights how 'what we want' is often so completely delusional and based on a very narrow perspective - and we don't even realise it.

 

 

On the other hand, maybe he looks like this IRL:

 

 

and you don't realise it..? :-)

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by gatito

[freeform]

11 minutes ago, gatito said:

 

On the other hand, maybe he looks like this IRL:

 

 

and you don't realise it..? :-)

 

 

 

Impressive form - but developing a body like this, essentially stops any possibility of development in the internal arts!

 

And by the way - the pic I put above is no joke, and not photoshopped - this guy literally injected oil in his arms to make himself look that way

 

[gatito]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

Impressive form - but developing a body like this, essentially stops any possibility of development in the internal arts!

 

You seem to have misunderstood my response - entirely...

 

 

[Earl Grey]

6 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Impressive form - but developing a body like this, essentially stops any possibility of development in the internal arts!

 

And by the way - the pic I put above is no joke, and not photoshopped - this guy literally injected oil in his arms to make himself look that way

 

 

I always wonder what makes people do such things, not just injecting themselves with oil, but the mixing and matching of things for results rather than systematic progress. 

 

This Vice article on saline injections into one's own testicles, a part of a small subculture that actually exists, is what comes to mind when I see that image of someone injecting oil to make his muscles look big...

[freeform]

15 minutes ago, gatito said:

 

You seem to have misunderstood my response - entirely...

 

 

 

I probably did, yes

 

I wasn't sure who the 'he' that you were referring to is - Mikey or old oil arms...

 

Are you saying - what if I was wrong, and in fact, Mikey is super well-developed and I'm wrong?

 

[gatito]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

 

I probably did, yes

 

I wasn't sure who the 'he' that you were referring to is - Mikey or old oil arms...

 

Are you saying - what if I was wrong, and in fact, Mikey is super well-developed and I'm wrong?

 

 

No.

 

[freeform]

13 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

I always wonder what makes people do such things, not just injecting themselves with oil, but the mixing and matching of things for results rather than systematic progress. 

 

It's what I call 'self-making'... basically a way of creating a bigger/more powerful sense of self...

 

I discovered something profound. I became self enlightened. I hacked my body to achieve superhuman this or that... the focus is always on me and making the me bigger/better etc.

[freeform]

1 minute ago, gatito said:

 

No.

 

 

Ok.

[gatito]

2 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Ok.

 

You're welcome. :-)

[dwai]

 

 

 

 

On 4/9/2020 at 10:19 PM, Mikey_Power_Up said:

It seems like for me, that spinal breathing has been the only technique that gives a strong kundalini response with episodes where I've had an electric automatic gushing of upward river powerful flow.

Is feeling a flow rising up your spine the only evidence of Kundalini? MCO doesn't raise energy up the central channel, only circulates through the ren and du meridians, so not really intended to raise kundalini IMHO. 

 

Pranayama is one way to raise Kundalini, of course, but there are more esoteric ways, but it requires preparation (first the spiritual heart needs to be opened). Or if an adept/teacher initiates you by doing what is called a power transfer (aka shaktipat). 

 

 

[forestofclarity]

The one doesn't necessarily exclude the other. If you tap into a living lineage, you have a tradition that has been experientially verified by hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of practitioners that have come before you. Newer programs simply haven't been widely tested or verified. 

 

But at the end of the day, no program has a very high success rate. If they did, we'd have news reports of people skating off into the noosphere is mass numbers. 

 

2 hours ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

@freeform  I'm sorry but I put zero faith or superiority in 'path' or lineage. Why? Because we are dealing with subjective phenomena, most whose practices has been hidden, and most people attribute amazing qualities to "path" and "lineage" without direct experience of that practices peak experience.

I don't care if an Asian who lived amongst monks for 50 years final decides after 1000 years of secrecy the techniques can now be shared to the west and the rest of the world.  I don't care if a westerner creates "a system of stuff" that works.

I only care if it works...

 

[dwai]

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

The one doesn't necessarily exclude the other. If you tap into a living lineage, you have a tradition that has been experientially verified by hundreds, thousands, or even tens of thousands of practitioners that have come before you. Newer programs simply haven't been widely tested or verified. 

This! 

10 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

But at the end of the day, no program has a very high success rate. If they did, we'd have news reports of people skating off into the noosphere is mass numbers. 

 

 

It has more to do with the preparedness of the student than the lineages themselves. Today's seekers are unable to overcome the urge for ego gratification for long enough to really absorb the teachings.

 

There are of course those who quietly go about their lives even after 'attaining' their objective -- the noosphere it turns out, is not different from this samsara.   

 

[Mikey_Power_Up]

@freeform

 

 

Muscle boy wasn't willing to do the work!  By hacking mean that we have better data collection and analytical potential now than in the past. We do not need to depend on masters and lineages. We can test what works and what doesn't. A lot of us just have beliefs around what is the superior war to learn. I prefer 'good' information which is hard to judge, so I settle with what I respond well to, and then just giving it a go. I know so dangerous some might say, but my running belief is that the horror cases that ppl speak about as a warning are far and few between the cases of  mild or little results.

There seems to be a lot of fear mongering, and I think it results from public groups where a lot of ppl with delusional expectations jump into these practices and fry themselves far more than more 'stable' types of people. I remember being on a forum a few years ago for SFQ and there was always the super chi monster guys who were having these scary results, more than likely primed by their expectation and on psychological make up. 

I do agree with you and Grey that knocking loose some of our unconscious bits can be a bit dangerous both in 'energetic' practices and even mindfulness. That is the danger of having things being made available to the public, the risk is worth it, similar to how gun ownership is 'mostly' worth it in the US. Freedom is a dangerous thing, becoming more than who we currently are, or if you are an essentialist becoming who we really are, also, is probably not without its own risks. People should choose their own risk tolerance.

[Mikey_Power_Up]

3 hours ago, dwai said:

This! 

It has more to do with the preparedness of the student than the lineages themselves. Today's seekers are unable to overcome the urge for ego gratification for long enough to really absorb the teachings.

 

There are of course those who quietly go about their lives even after 'attaining' their objective -- the noosphere it turns out, is not different from this samsara.   

 

How do we know if the teachings are any good? 

Today's students are more customers than they are disciples, and as such demand the good stuff at an 'appropriate' time, not 30 years later into their servitude. I think the master/sifu/guru racket has been going on for thousands of years, probably even more so when the the 'great' ones couldn't be questioned.  The greatest egos I've seen have come from those who promote they are free from their own, yet demand to be exalted in the most humble brag/humble 'flex' of ways , by faith, belief and unquestioning.  Maybe as we shop for practices, we should ask for proof of concept. Don't show me you, show me your top 10 students!   

As an offshoot from my other question, I wonder if those who believe that all lessons should be free are willing to give up some of their autonomy for those lessons? If you are are not willing to pay for your lessons, which would  help the master pay their mortgage, rent or afford food, maybe taking an undying oath to them is a more suitable 'free' exchange? 

[ralis]

I want to refine what I have stated previously regarding the human energy field. The reason being is that evolution has locked up the system making it virtually unhackable unless one understands how to unlock from the bottom up. Why? The field is marvelously complex and wrong adjustments/tinkering upset the balance in the entire system. There are a few teachers that understand this both in Eastern and Western systems. 
 

I upset my system some 26 years ago and it took years and massive amounts of willpower to right the ship. 

[Mikey_Power_Up]

4 hours ago, dwai said:

Is feeling a flow rising up your spine the only evidence of Kundalini? MCO doesn't raise energy up the central channel, only circulates through the ren and du meridians, so not really intended to raise kundalini IMHO. 

 

Pranayama is one way to raise Kundalini, of course, but there are more esoteric ways, but it requires preparation (first the spiritual heart needs to be opened). Or if an adept/teacher initiates you by doing what is called a power transfer (aka shaktipat). 

 

 

I'm not really comparing MCO and spinal breathing directly, but more along which practices have given the more 'peak experiences' over the years. I can say that spinal breathing has done that, but intermittently.  

[Mikey_Power_Up]

5 hours ago, freeform said:

 

It's what I call 'self-making'... basically a way of creating a bigger/more powerful sense of self...

 

I discovered something profound. I became self enlightened. I hacked my body to achieve superhuman this or that... the focus is always on me and making the me bigger/better etc.

What is wrong with self-making?
Healthy self-making. 
Potential realized. 
Not necessarily oil in muscle type of self-making, but building the ME. 

[Mikey_Power_Up]

6 hours ago, gatito said:

 

I've no idea why they get "overload" but, as I inferred, TM isn't a "legitimate" practice.

 

However, I'm not going to hammer this issue further than that with you, especially as there's now lot's of info. out there that's easily accessible for anyone to do their due diligence about both AYP and TM.

 

Furthermore, if you "got results" that worked for you, W(ho)TF am I (or anyone else) to nay-say your "results". :-)

 

I no huge defender of TM, but it is well researched. There's research that shows its sticking points for some, and its positive attributes as well. What do you mean when you say TM isn't a 'legitimate' practice?  TM also seems to only be maybe 15% of what they teach.  

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

What is wrong with self-making?
Healthy self-making. 
Potential realized. 
Not necessarily oil in muscle type of self-making, but building the ME. 

 

The trap of self-aggrandizing is equally dangerous in both what he describes and what you attempt to differentiate. 

[Earl Grey]

24 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

I do agree with you and Grey that knocking loose some of our unconscious bits can be a bit dangerous both in 'energetic' practices and even mindfulness. That is the danger of having things being made available to the public, the risk is worth it, similar to how gun ownership is 'mostly' worth it in the US. Freedom is a dangerous thing, becoming more than who we currently are, or if you are an essentialist becoming who we really are, also, is probably not without its own risks. People should choose their own risk tolerance.

 

Freedom has a price, but remember that when using the gun analogy, you're not the only one paying for it if something happens. Likewise, when working with energy, a good practice can heal your family as a splash effect or can cause more headaches if psychoses manifest for example. 

[Earl Grey]

4 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

I no huge defender of TM, but it is well researched. There's research that shows its sticking points for some, and its positive attributes as well. What do you mean when you say TM isn't a 'legitimate' practice?  TM also seems to only be maybe 15% of what they teach.  

 

Eric Isen came from TM. Sure, the organization now is quite corporate in feel, but that doesn't mean there aren't any good people in it. So while I don't mind if someone came from it or came to an awareness from it, I generally don't say much if someone wants to pursue TM as I have my own methods of mantra chanting practice from a different lineage--driving in my own lane and staying there while they remain in theirs as well. 

[dwai]

47 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

How do we know if the teachings are any good? 

see the students...it is hard to find out for sure...

47 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

Today's students are more customers than they are disciples, and as such demand the good stuff at an 'appropriate' time, not 30 years later into their servitude.

why? Why should a teacher share something simply because the student can pay? 

47 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

I think the master/sifu/guru racket has been going on for thousands of years, probably even more so when the the 'great' ones couldn't be questioned.  

it’s no racket at all...teachers have always taken payment — used to be called Guru Dakshina (payment could be in cash or kind). No good teacher would take on the karma of “free” or they’d not call themselves teacher.  

Only exception  is when the teacher is liberated - then they are not bound by karma (but that seems beyond the scope of this discussion)....

47 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

 

The greatest egos I've seen have come from those who promote they are free from their own, yet demand to be exalted in the most humble brag/humble 'flex' of ways , by faith, belief and unquestioning.  Maybe as we shop for practices, we should ask for proof of concept. Don't show me you, show me your top 10 students!   
 

yup..but the question then is, how would you gauge said students? what would the signs of their “attainment” be? 

47 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

 

[dwai]

54 minutes ago, Mikey_Power_Up said:

I'm not really comparing MCO and spinal breathing directly, but more along which practices have given the more 'peak experiences' over the years. I can say that spinal breathing has done that, but intermittently.  

What do you mean by “peak experience”? Why should MCO and kundalini be similar in terms of experience? 

Different purposes, different experiences...

 

[Mikey_Power_Up]

56 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

The trap of self-aggrandizing is equally dangerous in both what he describes and what you attempt to differentiate. 

Perhaps, but it isn't certain that a person ends up aggrandizing themselves.  They might just become a better version who is aware of their power, worth and limitations. Teaching self-awareness with self-making might be an awesome combination. Perhaps a lifelong never ending black/white mirror journal., wins/losses,  good me/bad me, reality vs inflation...