What is your favorite Taoist book?

[forestofclarity]

I was looking for something Taoist to read in my large collection of Buddhist books the other day. As it turns out, I have very few Taoist books, and most of them are boring academic treatments or obtuse Thomas Cleary translations. 

 

What is (are) your favorite Taoist book(s)? 

[thelerner]

At one time it was The Tao of Healthy, Sex, and Longevity by Daniel Reid.

[Sebastian]

I like these two by Master Ni Hua Ching in particular.

 

1) Internal Alchemy (I also love the cover of the first edition which you can see below)

 

 

2) The Power of the Feminine 

 

 

The first one was first published in 1992. The second in 2004 and was one of the first books that Master Ni wrote by himself with minimal editing, compared to some earlier books.  These are the opposite of dry or academic because they are personal in nature. You feel warm reading them, as the knowledge shared in the books was passed on for many generations.

 

[Nintendao]

 Seven Taoist Masters is a fun one, too.

 

Quote

History and legend are interwoven in this folk novel that both entertains and instructs. Written by an unknown author, Seven Taoist Masters is the story of six men and one woman who overcome tremendous hardships on the journey to self-mastery. These characters and their teacher, Wang Ch'ung-yang, are all historical figures who lived in the Southern Sung (1127–1279) and Yuan (1271–1368) dynasties. Wang is regarded as the greatest patriarch of the Complete Reality school, a highly purified branch of Taoism having a strong affinity with Zen Buddhism. The novel brings to life the essentials of Taoist philosophy and practice, both through the instructions offered by Wang—on topics such as the cultivation of mind and body, meditation techniques, and overcoming the obstacles to enlightenment—and through the experiences of the characters.

 

[awaken]

I love 悟真篇 Wu Jen Pien, a Chinese book. My English is poor, but My Chinese is pretty good.

 

先把乾坤為鼎器，次搏烏兔藥來烹。

既驅二物歸黃道，爭得金丹不解生？

 

For one thousand years, there are many people tried to explain this book.

But there're still few people really understand it.

I think 劉一明Liu Yiming's version is better than others.

Wuzhen zhizhi 悟真直指 is written by Liu. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by awaken

[doc benway]

My favorite is probably:

Original Tao: Inner Training (Nei-yeh) and the Foundations of Taoist Mysticism by Harold Roth. You can find many translations of Neiye for free, including right here in Sean’s thread, but Roth’s translations and discussion were well worth the price of the book.

 

Another book I found to be wonderful and very insightful, and which may be a tad controversial here, is When the Shoe Fits, a collection of Osho’s musings on Zhuangzi parables. I read it when I first began to be interested in Daoism many years ago and Osho’s interpretations really helped me to penetrate some of the esoteric and elusive concepts in Zhuangzi. Otherwise I’m not much of a fan of Osho...

 

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

I love 悟真篇 Wu Jen Pien, a Chinese book. My English is poor, but My Chinese is pretty good.

 

先把乾坤為鼎器，次搏烏兔藥來烹。

既驅二物歸黃道，爭得金丹不解生？

 

For one thousand years, there are many people tried to explain this book.

But there're still few people really understand it.

I think 劉一明Liu Yiming's version is better than others.

Wuzhen zhizhi 悟真直指 is written by Liu. 

 

I think there is an English translation available but I can’t comment on the quality of translation -

https://www.goldenelixir.com/press/trl_01_wuzhenpian.html

[forestofclarity]

As it happens, I have it and the Cleary translation. I haven't looked at them in some years, but last I did, I could not really make heads or tails of it. 

 

6 hours ago, awaken said:

I love 悟真篇 Wu Jen Pien, a Chinese book. My English is poor, but My Chinese is pretty good.

 

先把乾坤為鼎器，次搏烏兔藥來烹。

既驅二物歸黃道，爭得金丹不解生？

 

For one thousand years, there are many people tried to explain this book.

But there're still few people really understand it.

I think 劉一明Liu Yiming's version is better than others.

Wuzhen zhizhi 悟真直指 is written by Liu. 

 

4 hours ago, steve said:

 

I think there is an English translation available but I can’t comment on the quality of translation -

https://www.goldenelixir.com/press/trl_01_wuzhenpian.html

 

[doc benway]

For me, Osho opened the door of meaning in Daoism from a book perspective but practicing Dao meditation is really what I needed to make a deep connection. Most Daoist texts and poems are dense and esoteric, not intended for public consumption. Once I got a taste they slowly made more sense, eg Neiye, but even then the language can be abstruse and ambiguous.

[awaken]

先把乾坤為鼎器，次搏烏兔藥來烹。

既驅二物歸黃道，爭得金丹不解生？

 

For me, these words is very clear.

But it is really hard to translate.

 

乾坤 is 陰陽 Ying Yang.

鼎器 is 玄關 The secret gate.

先把乾坤為鼎器 means to put 乾坤 to 鼎器. Follow the rules of Ying Yang to train, and then get the secret gate.

次搏烏兔藥來烹

次 next

搏 fight

烏 crow

兔 rabbit

藥 medicine

來 come

烹 cook

 

The next step is to fight for crow rabbit medicine to cook. Where to cook? In the secret gate.

鼎器 means a pot, the secret gate. There we cook the crow rabbit medicine in the pot, the secret gate.

The crow rabbit medicine is light. The secret gate shows the light. 

Crow light shows in Yang. Rabbit light shows in Ying. No matter Ying  or Yang, Crow and Rabbit are both light. They just shows in different situations. These two lights are both medicine.

 

先把乾坤為鼎器，次搏烏兔藥來烹。

 

These two sentences means we follow the rules of Ying-Yang to train ourselves. Then the secret gate opens like a pot. In the secret gate, the light shows inside. Not just in Yang, also in Ying, shows  the different light. Crow medicine's light move like aura. This belongs to Yang 陽.

Rabbit medicine's light doesn't move. But it looks like a moon. Sometimes it shows in white color. Sometimes it shows in yellow color.

 

If someone have healthy body, their crow medicine's light may looks like rabbit medicine's light.

Therefore we can't judge only by the shape of light. We should judge by the environment, Ying or Yang.

 

The environment of Ying or Yang is judged by the situation of consciousness.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by awaken

[forestofclarity]

I have downloaded Seven Taoist Masters on my kindle and I am waiting for the Nei Yeh.

 

In the meantime, I got Daoism Explained by Hans-Georg Moeller. I have been listening to it on my bike ride. Very interesting. Check out the butterfly story:

 

Translation by Giles (i.e. Westernized):

 

Once upon a time, I, Zhuangzi, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of following my fancies as a butterfly, and was unconscious of my individuality as a man. Suddenly, I awaked, and there I lay, myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man. Between a man and butterfly there is necessarily a barrier. The transition is called Metempsychosis. (Giles 1926: 47; Moeller 2006: 44) 

 

Translation by Moeller (based on ancient Chinese commentary):

 

Once Zhuang Zhou dreamt – and then he was a butterfly, a fluttering butterfly, self-content and in accord with its intentions. The butterfly did not know about Zhou. Suddenly it awoke – and then it was fully and completely Zhou. One does not know whether there is a Zhou becoming a butterfly in a dream or whether there is a butterfly becoming a Zhou in a dream. There is a Zhou and there is a butterfly, so there is necessarily a distinction between them. This is called: the changing of things. (Moeller 2006: 48)

[doc benway]

29 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

I have downloaded Seven Taoist Masters on my kindle and I am waiting for the Nei Yeh.

 

In the meantime, I got Daoism Explained by Hans-Georg Moeller. I have been listening to it on my bike ride. Very interesting. Check out the butterfly story:

 

Translation by Giles (i.e. Westernized):

 

Once upon a time, I, Zhuangzi, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of following my fancies as a butterfly, and was unconscious of my individuality as a man. Suddenly, I awaked, and there I lay, myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man. Between a man and butterfly there is necessarily a barrier. The transition is called Metempsychosis. (Giles 1926: 47; Moeller 2006: 44) 

 

Translation by Moeller (based on ancient Chinese commentary):

 

Once Zhuang Zhou dreamt – and then he was a butterfly, a fluttering butterfly, self-content and in accord with its intentions. The butterfly did not know about Zhou. Suddenly it awoke – and then it was fully and completely Zhou. One does not know whether there is a Zhou becoming a butterfly in a dream or whether there is a butterfly becoming a Zhou in a dream. There is a Zhou and there is a butterfly, so there is necessarily a distinction between them. This is called: the changing of things. (Moeller 2006: 48)

 

I believe this was the first Daoist parable I ever heard, when I was a teenager. It really struck me in its simplicity, its beauty, and its ability to shake the very ground I stood on. I remember feeling WOW!

 

It’s actually a very brief excerpt from the second chapter of the Zhuangzi. Here is a link to James Legge’s translation online. The chapter is called “The Adjustment of Controversies” in his translation. Reading Zhuangzi is not easy but there are some great discussions about it on this forum to check out. You’ll find the Neiye is far more directly speaking of personal cultivation and less philosophy.

[MBZ]

The Tao of Pooh

[forestofclarity]

What I find interesting is the difference between the two translations. The Westernized translation, per Moeller, deals with very Western concepts--- the unchanging, soul-like "I" (a word that does not appear in the Chinese); the insightful moment of recollection (as opposed to forgetting); the doubting of what is real, the subjective POV, etc. The Western version is more about a transcendent soul that rises above the changes, whereas the Chinese version is more about leaning into the changes and immersing yourself into what is currently arising.

 

My first go around with tai chi/qigong reflected more of this Westernized mentality. I can see this in the questions I asked: how do I make this happen? How do I accomplish this? How do I direct the changes that I want? I am driving the chariot and whipping the horses in this example. 

 

But now I can see this may be an error. It seems the better attitude is not asking how to direct the changes, but to let go of the resistances to change. Things are already empty and impermanent, and letting go will allow them to do their thing, or return to the source. It is less a matter of gaining (like an insight) and more of a matter of losing (opening, relaxing, sinking). Letting go of tension/blockages/etc. so changes can happen. Becoming the empty space at the center of the wheel so the spokes can balance of their own accord. 

 

 

19 hours ago, steve said:

 

I believe this was the first Daoist parable I ever heard, when I was a teenager. It really struck me in its simplicity, its beauty, and its ability to shake the very ground I stood on. I remember feeling WOW!

 

It’s actually a very brief excerpt from the second chapter of the Zhuangzi. Here is a link to James Legge’s translation online. The chapter is called “The Adjustment of Controversies” in his translation. Reading Zhuangzi is not easy but there are some great discussions about it on this forum to check out. You’ll find the Neiye is far more directly speaking of personal cultivation and less philosophy.

 

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, forestofemptiness said:

What I find interesting is the difference between the two translations. The Westernized translation, per Moeller, deals with very Western concepts--- the unchanging, soul-like "I" (a word that does not appear in the Chinese); the insightful moment of recollection (as opposed to forgetting); the doubting of what is real, the subjective POV, etc. The Western version is more about a transcendent soul that rises above the changes, whereas the Chinese version is more about leaning into the changes and immersing yourself into what is currently arising.

 

My first go around with tai chi/qigong reflected more of this Westernized mentality. I can see this in the questions I asked: how do I make this happen? How do I accomplish this? How do I direct the changes that I want? I am driving the chariot and whipping the horses in this example. 

 

But now I can see this may be an error. It seems the better attitude is not asking how to direct the changes, but to let go of the resistances to change. Things are already empty and impermanent, and letting go will allow them to do their thing, or return to the source. It is less a matter of gaining (like an insight) and more of a matter of losing (opening, relaxing, sinking). Letting go of tension/blockages/etc. so changes can happen. Becoming the empty space at the center of the wheel so the spokes can balance of their own accord. 

 

 

 

 

I think we each bring a lot to these stories - intelligence, baggage, karma - and we need to begin with wherever we find ourselves, even translators. Your experience clearly shows your personal growth and it’s wonderful to see. I appreciate you sharing that. My experience with taijiquan was similar and it helped me to make that shift, as did meditation and even some readings. I think the changing perspective you describe can come from a variety of practices, both Buddhist and Daoist, and they seem to converge on this experience of emptiness or wu wei, depending on one’s preferred labels.

 

I also think it’s important to return to the classics periodically. As we change so do they, from our perspective, and we can go deeper. I never saw that better than with a taijiquan book called the Tai Chi Boxing Chronicle by Kuo Lien-ying. As my experiential knowledge of taijiquan matured, I was able to incrementally penetrate the lessons in the book over a period of years. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by steve

[Taomeow]

易經 

[forestofclarity]

I’ve been unable to penetrate the I Ching it even in English! 😂
 

52 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

易經 

 

[Taomeow]

58 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

I’ve been unable to penetrate the I Ching it even in English! 😂
 

 

 

You are in good company.  Confucius, at the end of his  long and most accomplished life, was asked on his deathbed if he had any regrets.  "Just one," he said.  "I regret I can't live another 50 years and dedicate them exclusively to the study of the I Ching."

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Taomeow

[forestofclarity]

If I were to look at it again, I would definitely want to learn it from a teacher. 

 

8 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

You are in good company.  Confucius, at the end of his  long and most accomplished life, was asked on his deathbed if he had any regrets.  "Just one," he said.  "I regret I can't live another 50 years and dedicate them exclusively to the study of the I Ching."