yuan qi,yuan jing, yuan shen - transumtation goal ?

[waterdrop]

after seeing this video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiYOHjli80

is the goal to get yuan shen or yuan jing or yuan qi ?   or all of them  (make are qi,jing,shen become their respectable yuan versions) ?

Edited April 21, 2020 by waterdrop

[Master Logray]

Enhancing the earthly versions just gives longer and healthier normal life.  The "Yuan" versions are path to be an Immortal.

 

 

[EmeraldHead]

The yuan is to make the body live long. But you still reincarnate after uncountable years of living an epic life.To become an actual immortal you must reach the Dao. Only Dao is eternal. Only Dao can do things like teleport across. Prenatal can only appear when it splits, Postnatal can only project when it splits. Dao never split in the first place, it is the fundamental substance.

 

19 hours ago, Master Logray said:

earthly versions just gives longer and healthier normal life

earthly=postnatal? Only healthier, not longer. Postnatal 3 'treasures' don't bring longevity, they only extend to a normal lifespan free of normal diseases. But you do not become immune to poison, cancer or aging itself. There is not one example that defies this. Something like hours daily of tai chi and practicing wei wu wei for mind management take care (preserve) of the prenatal and such people can live longer than say the famous Chang with all his postnatal chi and electric fu.

You need pre to live longer. Although it cannot act in this world without postnatal. So the prenatal will maintain your spirit running here but you need a complete postnatal field to act as a grounding port. It's like can you run electricity across the country without copper wires? Well yes, you can use fibre optic cables which run on light inside glass tubes, so there is no dangerous electricity but you woN'T get heat or electricity to the other side - only information.

Edited April 22, 2020 by EmeraldHead

[waterdrop]

When they talk about "transmuting"    -     from what to what ?     ( when you practice qigong for example - what are you suppose to transmute to what ?  )

Edited April 22, 2020 by waterdrop

[Master Logray]

The Postnatal versions, fully mastered, can achieve longevity - which means may be up to 120 years with acceptable health, may be even some special powers, but nothing extraordinary. 

[EmeraldHead]

13 hours ago, waterdrop said:

When they talk about "transmuting"    -     from what to what ? 

nothing. that is napoleon hills nofap bullshit.

 

the elixir is not made or 'build'. it is found inside. postnatal cannot 'create' prenatal. prenatal cannot 'create' dao. It can only find it . . .

 

if you're asking about the body longevity arts which have nothing to do with finding the Dao/spirituality/etc then you also need to take into account the elixir medicine itself. the postnatal chi dan tien is merely a field for the elixir. proper elixir is made of physical body/substance. lower than post-natal jing on the scale of vibration. essence.

 

 

lots of old posts on this forum to read further. your original threads question is not specific at all.

Edited April 23, 2020 by EmeraldHead

[EmeraldHead]

11 hours ago, Master Logray said:

The Postnatal versions, fully mastered, can achieve longevity

to master postnatal haha funny guy. It will lead to prenatal on it's own, if mastered. But that is not for the curious.

[Master Logray]

13 hours ago, EmeraldHead said:

to master postnatal haha funny guy. It will lead to prenatal on it's own, if mastered. But that is not for the curious.

 

It depends on the individual school of practice.  Many are for pure postnatal only, seldom ventures into mind and spirit training. 

[Small Fur]

On 4/21/2020 at 4:58 AM, waterdrop said:

after seeing this video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiYOHjli80

is the goal to get yuan shen or yuan jing or yuan qi ?   or all of them  (make are qi,jing,shen become their respectable yuan versions) ?

 

 

First of all, I have not viewed the link you supplied so I am not addressing the content in there, just your question about the substances themselves and their processes.

 

The "goal" is what you make of it. It's easy to dismiss this, in fact many students when I say something so simple do dismiss this while acting in theoretical courteous agreement -  "Of course, right right" they nod their head vigorously, while lazily internally waiting for a seemingly more tangible answer that they really want to hear to be handed to them.  The world is full of answers- but what could be better than realizing that all the resource you have to Become already lies within you? This is not a PC statement or a clever statement, it's the transcendent recognition of self beyond illusion and it needs to be taken seriously. This chosen path cannot be resolved in understanding to transcendence by those who need mental answers and desire social satisfaction, this is the path for those who are able to find true resolve and harmony in being without in every moment- and I mean that in many deep, deep ways. It is not to say that one may not experience forms of measurable change through practice and cultivation, but if you believe these moments of flux to be the arrival of the 'goal' or 'the ultimate' then you will have already seeded misunderstanding in the experience that you just 'grasped'. A profoundly truthful recognition at any level or layer of form is always beyond measure because it transcends the human device even if it can be witnessed in and through us. So students who tell me they want a teacher who will make them feel something specific and tangible, who are thus driven by the experience of phenomena- these are the people who enjoy the perpetuation of phenomena, who ultimately, are afraid to be without. And these are the same people who easily fall prey to strong intellectual minds and are seduced by imagery (ie. academics, powerful and persuasive egos, the look of monastic robes, fancy romantic tai chi moves, amazing displays of qi projection, etc.,.), who get caught up in their own emotionality of fantastical occurrences (ie. psychotropic drugs, mystical occurrences, impactful collective experiences, etc.,.), and who continue to crave affirmation to espouse validation (ie. credentialing, titles, audience recognition, etc.,) and thus are easily led astray and seduced by persons, groups and experiences seemingly more prestigious and enlivened than they actually perceive themselves to be. This is the weakness of insecurity and highlights the importance of doing the internal work necessary for a deep self-knowing... after all, from what source do you think immortality and enlightenment arises- somewhere outside of yourself? is it just floating somewhere in the universe of dimension? do you think a school will grant you a title and in that moment it becomes so? will society thinking you are a guru make it true? do you mistake the heavens for the Unnamble Source?

 

So no matter what your lineage, who your teacher is, in order to walk this path truly, it must come from a guidance deeper and even more profound than the thing you think to be yourself.  There are levels of exploration that can be done in the comaraderie of peers, or for the joys of health, etc.,. and in some of those exploratory or beginning stages, the simple practice of tai chi, qi gong, or basic knowledge of Taoist esoterics can provide an excellent foundation. For those who are are committed, there is incredible benefit to be had through selecting an area of study with great depth beyond a general workshop or class- at this stage learning must be continuous and your lifestyle reflective of each piece of knowledge; thus diligence and discipline are required. At later stages (and by late, I do not mean external progression, but internal: who you are, not what you have yet appeared to do or not do- this is about a maturity of sincerity), a private mentorship with a true teacher and the appropriate application of meditation can be profound.  Thus the level, school, teacher or lineage you select may affirm to yourself the level with which you are ready to understand- assuming that instruction meets the substance of your willingness. Those who walk the true path deeply have already seeded in themselves a profound honesty- an honesty that will help them select or discover a true teacher, they will be sincere in their willingness and because of this they will  arrive and know in concert with the Tao in their own time, not even because of their true teacher or a great lineage, but because of who they are.

 

So the answer to this question is not for someone to tell you, not for the thing called "Taoism' to decide, or even your teacher. You come to the teaching because you are ready. And what you select- in consciousness and in ignorance, will continue your chosen path.  Ultimately, the true substance is not found in any matter of phenomena- you will discover once you arrive there that even the substances of these Treasures in their most pure essence are so subtle, that they too nearly surpass anything which could give it name, including their own given names.

 

On 4/22/2020 at 3:47 AM, waterdrop said:

When they talk about "transmuting"    -     from what to what ?     ( when you practice qigong for example - what are you suppose to transmute to what ?  )

 

When you are transmuting, in some ways, the pathway doesn't matter. I say this in part because you will notice that each school or scholar talks about the order slightly differently and yet each is still possible. The orders are different simply because of the starting point that is chosen.  Since the substances and mechanisms are entirely inter-related and inter-dependent, one will not go without having at least some affect upon the other- the degree and quality of effect dependent on the quality of teaching and practice.  The most basic understanding is to know that the energetic physiology of the physical system begins at the root- so this is jing and moves through the triple burner converting pre- and post- natal essences into qi through the middle dan tien before it arrives in the upper dan tien to nurture shen. This is the foundation of formations from the energetics of the mundane, especially when we are looking at how post-natal processes enable human life. However, even our systems exist in layers and dimensions, so again, the understanding of point of origin needs to be guided by a greater sense than just human dictates and esoteric sciences.  If you arrive in Original Consciousness, this will make sense (if you follow my posts, you will notice that they are focused on shen and not jing. There are many reasons for this but an essential one being that you can worry about the form all day, but the form really only becomes whatever it is because of our quality of Consciousness- form is ephemeral and transient, its only purpose or value is as a vessel to enable Consciousness in its many manifestations, hence this is why immortality is possible. So even if the root of the energetic body is in jing medically speaking, the root of both form and formless of any manifestation and its capacity for transformation is ultimately found in (yuan) shen. Hence, immortality only has the potential to begin after passing through the threshold of enlightened strata).
  
Thus, though the wealth of the post-natal substance can be arrived at through intense focus in still fortification and drive in conservation, as well as substantive knowledge of the medicines to enable longevity- to the degree that you are moved beyond having a substantively healthy form, you will begin to explore what is 'original'- the yuan. Here, at this point, there can be no "goal", as you spoke of. If you put the goal before you, you will obscure the very thing you seek. To be able to transmute and recognize what is so pure, requires that you have come to a peace of mind, heart and form. Desire must be arrested and greatly diminished if not entirely extinguished. What is pure is not tainted by semblances. Thus the pre-natal essence becomes through not only the principles of health that guide the bounty of rightful mortal living but also the processes of purification and release- here is where one starts the process of truly being without. Being without may be reflected in form, but more importantly is the source of your understanding and orientation to form, so that form in its infinite manifestations is immaterial from within the perspective of those who reside in Nothing. 

 

Caring for the Three Treasures exclusively in the post- or pre- natal state does not automatically guarantee that each will affect the other condition entirely.  There are many, many factors that influence what is longevity and immortality and how it manifests in an individual including the stage of life in which they begin their cultivation, the overall path of their soul across time and space, their existing quality of health and clarity at the time the cultivations begin; and at later stages- the choice of manifestation they select, the depth of embodiment, the core of their focus, their ability to influence time and space including that of their own soul or 'karma' , as well as how strong deep and pure their spirit is in connection to Yuan Shen and Tao. In general, those that have mastered nothing, need to just focus on good quality health and greater self-awareness, in short, being a good human being and becoming a more self-aware person; they can further their being through substantive theory and disciplined practice. Those that are able to cultivate longevity will not only have attained requisite knowledge, but live in an applied understanding and thus will set the later stage to begin the purification process. While those who began this lifetime in a state of purity, will likely have automatically attained a measure of longevity and can begin the process of the Golden Seed. Most people are in some complex mixture in between and all people will benefit from the understanding of the care of form more foundationally, while self-reflecting upon their spirit through forms of meditation no matter the semblance of their stage.  

 

I want to offer that those who are later in life and/or have not been regular in their practices, who feel that they may be behind or think they would fail to complete milestones in cultivation (ie. perhaps because of health issues, trauma, past transgressions, or simply because they feel so exceptionally 'ordinary', etc.,.) and thus are resigned to lesser 'achievements'- do not doubt and do give up: live every moment as deeply and completely as you know how in health, awareness and self-cultivation- for this is the way of every Being who has ever come into immortality- they realize the eternality of the moment and they live accordingly, for there is only this moment to be and become. Remember too, that from a much greater existential perspective the path of your spirit is non-linear, so all that you give to this moment transcends this exact place and time. This is one of the understandings you can come to realize and (yes, palpably- lol) experience when you reside deeply in presence. So do not look to a later time to become, do not assume impossibilities from fear and doubt. Carry a light heart, be present, live honestly: always.

 

-----

 

And so as for speaking, the next time you post a question to the forum ask yourself why you ask at all. Ask yourself what is worth knowing and why. Ask yourself to the utmost of the self you know, what is the answer. Then stop. Be still. Listen as infinitely long as it takes to understand- that is meditate and live in meditation- not dream, not human ideas of peace, but deep still inner awareness penetrating the silence. Be willing to move in both the knowledge and mystery that becomes each moment of what you are.  

Be content not to understand, instead be an honest person- discover whether your own questions are sincere, because the honesty of your understanding in reply depends on the quality of your sincerity in asking. Students and practitioners who do not recognize answers through the very simplicity of nature and being in the everyday, will limit their own understanding even when presented with the most profound of direct teachings. The answers are everywhere; existence in itself is an answer if you can recognize it and even more so, if you can penetrate it: there is only you who has yet to discover your own capacity to truly realize and become.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Small Fur