Internal Arts and Mental Processing / Intelligence

[anshino23]

So something that intriqued me a few days ago watching Elon Musk talk on Joe Rogan was the way he processes information. By the look of it, his eyes move a lot as if he's recalling information or visualising things in detail on-the-spot, but it also reminds me of like very fast processing speed. 

 

Do people that have higher than average intelligence have more natural Qi development? Are their bodies just more efficient at organising information? Are they healthier than normal people? Is it a jing thing - with genetic factors (thus past-life merit/cultivation) being the primary cause of their intelligence? Or is it rather... that they have a more natural ability to enter samādhi and become fully absorbed as a consequence of above-average concentration; perhaps trained from childhood due to parental influences or just natural interest? 

 

Is it possible to enhance basic levels of cognitive performance through the internal arts ... and if so, to what degree? We read about samadhi and mental absorption and changing the physiology using internal alchemy; but while I can see it affecting your ability to concentrate and your intuitive capabilities quite dramatically (including but not limited to things like 'reading' people/energetics through the 'third eye') does it really enhance intelligence in terms of depth of mental processing, faster pattern recognition, logic, reasoning, etc.

 

A thing I remember my Buddhist friend was that once truly enlightened and one had entered the stream - one would have access to a sort of wisdom stream - which would allow you to, if you made yourself a fit vessel (such as through studying the material) much more 'prone' to mental insights into any topic of study you put your mind to. 

 

What's the limit? Is there one?

 

This may have been discussed before, but I'd be very curious to hear people's thoughts on this topic. Perhaps especially interesting to me at the moment because I'm spending all my time learning hundreds upon hundreds of facts and algorithms for my final medical school exam. 

[anshino23]

Not much of a conversation in that soundclip.  

 

But for those interested, here's the one I was referring to: 

 

 

[dwai]

Our mind is actually made up of four sub-components/functions. 

 

• Thought field (mind)
• storehouse of impressions (memory, feelings) 
• intellect (ability to perform abstract conceptualization, creativity and computation — the 1+1=2 kind of function)
• the identification mechanism (ego)

The what people generally consider intelligence is essentially faster than average recall of memory. 

 

The answer to your questions imho are as follows —

 

Some people are born with less mental muck (due to karma) and therefore have natural clarity. Because they have natural clarity, they are able to process stimuli better than others. 

 

Because they have clarity and thoughts are not scattered as much as in others, their jing/Qi is more focused. Think of it like a flashlight vs a laser. 

Now depending on how they use said mental clarity, defines how they are able to translate this in the spiritual world (or not). Because the ego is the identification mechanism, it tends to attach to stuff as “this is me, this is mine”. 

 

Here too karma plays a role. If karma is conducive, the individual would be able to take that mental clarity and become able to abide in awareness progressively for longer durations until they realize their true nature.  Or they could just remain as super successful individuals in the material realm. 

[silent thunder]

Interesting article addressing this, or skimming alongside it in Scientific American from a year ago.
Consciousness and Vibration. Coherence and Resonance revealing to be at the core of Consciousness.

 

Scientists in Neurobiology beginning to come around to the notion that if it has form, it has some rudimentary form of consciousness.

 

Fascinating read.  I love their approach to it, that 'The Hippies were right.  It's all about vibration."

 

 

 

 

 

[forestofclarity]

I don't think it is the case that people with high intelligence are necessarily in a better position. I have spent a lot of time with very smart people at some very top level institutions. Many of them were stuck in their heads. Many of them were stuck to the surface of things. Most of them probably suffered from some degree of depression. 

 

I would say any "internal art," whether tai chi or meditation, would enhance your mental functioning for a few reasons if performed correctly. One is increasing basic concentration. If you can be present or focus for a practice period, you will build your concentration. A second is spending less time is distraction mode. If you practice tai chi for an hour instead of surfing the internet, you will be affected differently (for a Western take, see https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/is-google-making-us-stupid/306868/). 

 

Third, I think it increases your efficiency. I can say from experience that meditation has helped me in my work life because I don't get distracted by irrelevancies--- I can separate how to think about something from how I feel about something. Many people cannot and end up making bad decisions. However, I doubt that practice alone can make up for one's potential, which is probably determined by your genetics, upbringing, karma, etc.  

 

 

 

 

[EmeraldHead]

IQ is an actual yogic siddhi. So NOT something you obtain by just amassing raw substance.

 

Did you see this pdf https://epdf.pub/the-complete-guide-to-genius-increase-your-iq-5ea6bb7d8c810.html ? It was going around a while back

Edited April 29, 2020 by EmeraldHead

[bax44]

Idk but Elon looked very socially awkward and maybe autistic/aspergers in that interview.

[freeform]

9 hours ago, bax44 said:

Idk but Elon looked very socially awkward and maybe autistic/aspergers in that interview.

 

Yes, I think he is mildly on the spectrum.

 

This usually means he can 'focus in' on a thought stream and ignore everything else very well - so he can go in-depth without getting distracted. Some people on the spectrum basically also seldom experience emotion - meaning much of the qi that goes into producing emotion is instead used to create thought.

 

In regards to cultivation and whether it can make you smart.

 

Yes definitely - there's one main causal chain behind it...

 

Jing -> Qi -> Shen

 

Then Shen -> Xing - it's at this stage where the Shen starts to fuel your Xing do people become smarter. And you'll see it quite obviously in people - they'll suddenly get very verbose - using all sorts of vocabulary and turns of phrase they've not used before. If their nature is more emotional, they'll become incredibly poetic - like it would be hard to decipher any concrete meaning from what they say, but it will all sound really profound and touching.

 

But this is all a mistake!

 

There are forms of Qigong that deliberately work on that.

 

But in a spiritual tradition getting smarter is considered an error, the conversion should carry on. Shen -> Xing -> Ling - which is the 'higher' state of Xing, or the spiritual aspect of your nature. That's what one wants to fuel.

 

But there are other mechanics at play also.

 

For example, once you habitually function from you LDT - you'll find you become much more 'level headed'... there's no extra verboseness or an increase in recall and processing... it's more that you see things as they are and with clarity... problems that might seem insurmountable if you're emotionally charged seem as simple as they actually are. There's less of a tendency to be reactive, and one feels much more centred and less pulled around in this direction or another by their thoughts and emotions.

 

Another function is when you stop 'leaking qi' (through over-thought and emotion and through desire, orgasm or unbalanced menstruation) - you basically have a lot of extra Qi that can be used as fuel. I remember hearing that chess grandmasters have to eat like 6000 calories not to lose weight during chess events... This food creates qi and qi fuels their thinking... So it's not a case of becoming smarter - it's just that you have more juice to be as smart as you can be for longer stretches of time.

 

And finally, in the Longmen tradition, there are a LOT of mental exercises designed to clarify ones ability to think. There are exercises for memory and recall, ones for concentration and focus, others for clarity of imagination etc. These are all designed to generate the correct mental qualities for meditation and other processes like 'the spiritual mirror'.

[anshino23]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

Yes definitely - there's one main causal chain behind it...

 

Jing -> Qi -> Shen

 

Then Shen -> Xing - it's at this stage where the Shen starts to fuel your Xing do people become smarter.

 

Does the Shen to Xing aspect have relationship to the different functions of intellect that people speak about or is it just a complete upgrade? I'm thinking more in terms of ... are there specific things that will naturally get upgraded like visualization or memory recall or processing speed, or how does it work exactly? Like would a person that has trouble wiht visualization suddenly have a newfound ability to visualise stuff like seeing things with open eyes? Or how does it work?

 

6 hours ago, freeform said:

And finally, in the Longmen tradition, there are a LOT of mental exercises designed to clarify ones ability to think. There are exercises for memory and recall, ones for concentration and focus, others for clarity of imagination etc. These are all designed to generate the correct mental qualities for meditation and other processes like 'the spiritual mirror'.

 

Very cool  

[freeform]

10 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

Does the Shen to Xing aspect have relationship to the different functions of intellect that people speak about or is it just a complete upgrade?

Yeah - it’s more of a general upgrade... whatever your nature is will be enhanced.

 

Things become sharper. Thoughts become clearer, more nuanced and more thorough (as in you can process a longer thought in one go). 
 

There’s more sensory depth. Creativity improves too - as a function of different ideas coming together and giving birth to a new baby idea.

 

Thinking feels more ‘intuitive’ - although I don’t think there’s anything esoteric going on. It’s just perfectly formed solutions, ideas, answers seem to pop up without too much purposeful mental effort.

 

I can imagine that if you keep at it (fuelling intellect) things might get even more interesting - like photographic memory, mathematical ability and so on.

[Creation]

16 hours ago, bax44 said:

Idk but Elon looked very socially awkward and maybe autistic/aspergers in that interview.

I recently saw a clip from that interview and the awkwardness was really difficult to watch.  I don't think it's because Musk lacks social skills per say.  Think of it like this: I know many very smart people who have perfectly good social skills in ordinary contexts, but when you ask them about their field of expertise, they reveal themselves to be one of two types of person.  One is the type of person who thinks you don't really understand something unless they can explain it to a random person on the street, that is, for whom simplifying something to it's essence is an important part of their personal understanding of it, and they will be able to talk about their field easily.  Science popularizes are like this, so were, for instance, Einstein and Feynman.  The other type of highly intelligent expert doesn't use intuitive simplifications in their thought process in this way, instead they rely on their unusually high mental processing ability to do their work.  These people just don't know how to talk about what is in their head to non-experts and less intelligent people, it's painful and awkward for them to even try.  Musk definitely seems to be in this latter category.  Check out his interview with Lex Friedman (an AI researcher at MIT) to see him in his element. 

 

What really struck me about Musk in the Rogan clip I saw was his benevolence and generosity of spirit.  He is not doing the things he does for money or fame. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Creation

[anshino23]

7 hours ago, freeform said:

But in a spiritual tradition getting smarter is considered an error, the conversion should carry on. Shen -> Xing -> Ling - which is the 'higher' state of Xing, or the spiritual aspect of your nature. That's what one wants to fuel.

 

Is it just a "choice" one makes at the Xing to Ling stage? Like... I'm just going to keep tranforming my Shen into Xing but not go into Ling? How does that choice work or what determines it? 

[freeform]

34 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

 

Is it just a "choice" one makes at the Xing to Ling stage? Like... I'm just going to keep tranforming my Shen into Xing but not go into Ling? How does that choice work or what determines it? 

 

Generally if you do Ming-based practices, you'll feed your intellect - To feed your Ling means you need to do other practices - whether alchemical, Energetic (along the lines of the secret of the golden flower or spiritual mirror type work) or Meditative practice. Generally reaching stillness (samadhi) is a key aspect of each one of these.

[anshino23]

Just now, freeform said:

Generally if you do Ming-based practices, you'll feed your intellect - To feed your Ling means you need to do other practices - whether alchemical, Energetic (along the lines of the secret of the golden flower or spiritual mirror type work) or Meditative practice. Generally reaching stillness (samadhi) is a key aspect of each one of these.

 

Alright thanks. I thought ming-based practiced were primarily for the jing to qi aspect, then the qi to shen would be more of alchemical and meditative work, but perhaps I misunderstood something. Because if Ming-based would be Jing to Qi primarily then that wouldn't affect the transformation of Shen to Xing as I understand it. 

 

Maybe I'll have to re-read White Moon again... unless you have any better resource for this  

[freeform]

2 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

I thought ming-based practiced were primarily for the jing to qi aspect

 

Not quite...

 

It's hard for me to answer because I'd be referencing information that I can't really talk about outside of my tradition.

 

But no - Ming practices (should) be the full jing-qi-shen deal... There are just many layers to Shen. Sorry I can't be more clear

[bax44]

3 hours ago, Creation said:

I recently saw a clip from that interview and the awkwardness was really difficult to watch.  I don't think it's because Musk lacks social skills per say.  Think of it like this: I know many very smart people who have perfectly good social skills in ordinary contexts, but when you ask them about their field of expertise, they reveal themselves to be one of two types of person.  One is the type of person who thinks you don't really understand something unless they can explain it to a random person on the street, that is, for whom simplifying something to it's essence is an important part of their personal understanding of it, and they will be able to talk about their field easily.  Science popularizes are like this, so were, for instance, Einstein and Feynman.  The other type of highly intelligent expert doesn't use intuitive simplifications in their thought process in this way, instead they rely on their unusually high mental processing ability to do their work.  These people just don't know how to talk about what is in their head to non-experts and less intelligent people, it's painful and awkward for them to even try.  Musk definitely seems to be in this latter category.  Check out his interview with Lex Friedman (an AI researcher at MIT) to see him in his element. 

 

What really struck me about Musk in the Rogan clip I saw was his benevolence and generosity of spirit.  He is not doing the things he does for money or fame. 

 

I can get on board with that. Although it seems to me Musk is sort of stuck In one reality tunnel, it’s obvious he grew up inundated with computers and technology and this is the basis of his reality. Maybe this is another reason why he comes off the way he does.

 

in my own experience the more cultivation and practices there is a certain point where you realize how limited language is in expressing whats coming to you intuitively for sure. So often not saying anything seems better.

Edited April 30, 2020 by bax44

[bax44]

55 minutes ago, ऋषि said:

 

IMHO, you are better than him because you dont need to invent any electric cars or long-term batteries

 

I guess sarcasm? LOL. cool.

[Earl Grey]

On 4/30/2020 at 11:06 PM, Creation said:

What really struck me about Musk in the Rogan clip I saw was his benevolence and generosity of spirit.  He is not doing the things he does for money or fame. 

 

My friend who has worked with him says exactly the opposite of this claim. 

[Miroku]

On 30. 4. 2020 at 5:06 PM, Creation said:

 

What really struck me about Musk in the Rogan clip I saw was his benevolence and generosity of spirit.  He is not doing the things he does for money or fame. 

Sorry man, but I kinda don't really think you get to be a billionaire who wastes money on useless space flights and also claim to be generous. Those tests could have improved lives of many people.

[senseless virtue]

On 4/30/2020 at 6:06 PM, Creation said:

What really struck me about Musk in the Rogan clip I saw was his benevolence and generosity of spirit.  He is not doing the things he does for money or fame.

 

Becoming a filthy rich influential person is entirely about consciously cultivating a sense of incredible self-worth, justifying the accumulation of wealth to others, and mastering the game of social expectations and virtue signalling. These people are no saints.

 

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

— Matthew 19:24

 

https://www.biblehub.com/matthew/19-24.htm

[Earl Grey]

10 minutes ago, virtue said:

 

Becoming a filthy rich influential person is entirely about consciously cultivating a sense of incredible self-worth, justifying the accumulation of wealth to others, and mastering the game of social expectations and virtue signalling. These people are no saints.

 

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

— Matthew 19:24

 

https://www.biblehub.com/matthew/19-24.htm

 

37 minutes ago, Miroku said:

Sorry man, but I kinda don't really think you get to be a billionaire who wastes money on useless space flights and also claim to be generous. Those tests could have improved lives of many people.

 

Sad truth: many rich people think they're poor because they aren't as rich as those in a bracket above them. It never ends. 

[senseless virtue]

Nevermind.

Edited December 4, 2023 by senseless virtue

[manitou]

Interesting thread.  I know next to nothing about internal alchemy, but I do know that there are certain internal 'things' I have to do to get the qi disseminated.

 

A masseuse comes here twice a month, and I get a massage.  I'm K-active and the build-up of energy can be uncomfortable.  I've worked with this man for about 6 months, and he is energy-intuitive.  He uses a third eye to know what part of the back, shoulders, etc. to manipulate to allow the K-energy to release.

 

This last session, something wonderful happened.  There are things I have to do, and most of it is stilling the mind and disengaging every single muscle in my body that I possibly can.  He does mental preparation of his own.  This time, there was a blissful circuit of kundalini energy, a sexual energy, that would connect between us.  At one point it was such a strong current, he had to break away and cry.

 

What a phenomenal blissful, spacious feeling we shared.  It seems like I'm learning how to project it to another, with a mental pumping action.

[Vajra Fist]

On 30/04/2020 at 8:55 AM, freeform said:

Then Shen -> Xing - it's at this stage where the Shen starts to fuel your Xing do people become smarter. And you'll see it quite obviously in people - they'll suddenly get very verbose - using all sorts of vocabulary and turns of phrase they've not used before. If their nature is more emotional, they'll become incredibly poetic - like it would be hard to decipher any concrete meaning from what they say, but it will all sound really profound and touching.

 

But this is all a mistake!

 

There are forms of Qigong that deliberately work on that.

 

What you describe is very similar to my experience practicing Xiang Gong. I'm a journalist, and I found my writing became 100 times more lucid. I can at times agonise how to start a story, but while I was practicing this qigong, ideas would just flow. Writing was neither tiring nor a chore, and I enjoyed it so much I even dabbled with a bit of fiction outside work 

 

Are there any drawbacks to this type of qigong? For instance, without building a foundation of jing-qi-shen, are you effectively burning jing to fuel greater mental acuity? 

[EFreethought]

On 4/29/2020 at 3:00 PM, dwai said:

Our mind is actually made up of four sub-components/functions. 

 

• Thought field (mind)
• storehouse of impressions (memory, feelings) 
• intellect (ability to perform abstract conceptualization, creativity and computation — the 1+1=2 kind of function)
• the identification mechanism (ego)

The what people generally consider intelligence is essentially faster than average recall of memory. 

 

The answer to your questions imho are as follows —

 

Some people are born with less mental muck (due to karma) and therefore have natural clarity. Because they have natural clarity, they are able to process stimuli better than others. 

 

Because they have clarity and thoughts are not scattered as much as in others, their jing/Qi is more focused. Think of it like a flashlight vs a laser. 

Now depending on how they use said mental clarity, defines how they are able to translate this in the spiritual world (or not). Because the ego is the identification mechanism, it tends to attach to stuff as “this is me, this is mine”. 

 

Here too karma plays a role. If karma is conducive, the individual would be able to take that mental clarity and become able to abide in awareness progressively for longer durations until they realize their true nature.  Or they could just remain as super successful individuals in the material realm. 

 

Does karma mean anything in a Daoist context? Most Daoists do not talk about it much, although Hindus and Buddhists do.