About Nazism, sheep and the virus propaganda

[Toni]

Tanzania president questions coronavirus kits after animal test

President Magufuli says tests were found to be faulty after goat, sheep and pawpaw samples test positive for COVID-19.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/tanzania-president-questions-coronavirus-kits-animal-test-200503174100809.html

[Master Logray]

On 5/4/2020 at 9:48 PM, Toni said:

Vietnam 0 deads? It makes no sense

 

Vietnam acted very early and efficiently.  Partly because they are also communist.  They know fellow Chinese Communist very well.  They know China must have covered up. 

[ilumairen]

On 5/3/2020 at 5:14 PM, Gerard said:

Indeed a real joke when heart disease kills 17 million people a year and no Govs. are confining everybody (keep the sheep in the pen) and asking you to self-isolate?
 

 

2 days after reading this I'm still struck by (what I find to be) the absurdity of the statement. 

 

You are smart enough to realize heart disease is not contagious, yes?

 

On 5/3/2020 at 5:14 PM, Gerard said:

I have also realised that I try to explain this whole strategy to a DUMB sheep is useless, I will be wasting my time because they are so dumb that won't be able to understand anything."

 

Yes "they are soo dumb" they (or at least I) find your above analogy a fail. 

 

Oh they don't impose social distancing for the deadly heart disease, so why would this mysterious and all powerful "they" do so with coronavirus?

 

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.. one is communicable, and the other isn't. 

 

 

[Toni]

one of the funny things of this pandemy is the test question. Do you really think these tests work?

[ralis]

9 minutes ago, Toni said:

one of the funny things of this pandemy is the test question. Do you really think these tests work?

 

You have accused me of lacking critical thinking skills, and yet you continue to post absurd questions. Research for your self instead of coming on here and bothering everyone.

 

Tests for viruses have been around for quite sometime given the correct reagents and correct test equipment, it should be a matter of a few minutes to have test results. The science of virology is not a new science.

[Toni]

many tests sold by chinese to european countries just don't work. Everybody knows this here. So besides a lack of critical thinking there is a lack of good info too. Man, you have a real problem, you believe everything, don't be so naive:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/world/europe/coronavirus-antibody-test-uk.html

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/none-of-the-uks-millions-of-made-in-china-antibody-tests-work

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229843/Britain-paid-16m-coronavirus-antibody-tests-China-DONT-WORK.html

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1260805/spain-coronavirus-tests-chinese-testing-kits-false-results

 

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/03/26/spains-600000-rapid-coronavirus-tests-dont-work-as-chinese-embassy-confirms-manufacturer-has-no-medical-licence/

 

There have been problems with tests also in other countries like Turkey and Netherlands.

 

You believe all the media stories and fairy tales, so now you are very worried someone in the forum is questioning these jokes

Edited May 5, 2020 by Toni

[ilumairen]

 

15 minutes ago, Toni said:

You believe all the media stories and fairy tales, so now you are very worried someone in the forum is questioning these jokes

 

I would suggest not attributing emotion to others; it doesn't seem to do anything to improve discourse imo, and you've honestly no idea what, if anything, the person you've dismissively applied emotion to is actually feeling in their own experience. 

 

In short, you are decrying fairy tales while creating one for yourself. 

[bax44]

 

[bax44]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by bax44

[ralis]

6 hours ago, Toni said:

many tests sold by chinese to european countries just don't work. Everybody knows this here. So besides a lack of critical thinking there is a lack of good info too. Man, you have a real problem, you believe everything, don't be so naive:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/world/europe/coronavirus-antibody-test-uk.html

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/none-of-the-uks-millions-of-made-in-china-antibody-tests-work

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229843/Britain-paid-16m-coronavirus-antibody-tests-China-DONT-WORK.html

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1260805/spain-coronavirus-tests-chinese-testing-kits-false-results

 

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/03/26/spains-600000-rapid-coronavirus-tests-dont-work-as-chinese-embassy-confirms-manufacturer-has-no-medical-licence/

 

There have been problems with tests also in other countries like Turkey and Netherlands.

 

You believe all the media stories and fairy tales, so now you are very worried someone in the forum is questioning these jokes

Nowhere did I state there  are no errors in the tests. I merely stated a few things regarding tests. I don’t know what your problem is, but just settle down and discuss. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by ralis

[bax44]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8289921/Scientist-advice-led-lockdown-QUITS-breaking-restrictions-meet-married-lover.html

 

 

Apparently their own advice and rules doesnt necessarily apply. or he realized they were just flat out ridiculous and borderline hilarious so he said fuck it.

Edited May 5, 2020 by bax44

[silent thunder]

...

Edited May 26, 2022 by silent thunder

[bax44]

https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/

 

In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”

“
In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide.”

Edited May 5, 2020 by bax44

[Phantalor]

20 hours ago, ralis said:

Tests for viruses have been around for quite sometime given the correct reagents and correct test equipment, it should be a matter of a few minutes to have test results. The science of virology is not a new science.

Exactly, but there are also Problems, with these, especially with tests for viral illness.

Most these tests search for Antibodies or antigenes, and not for the sickness itself, as a Virus uses mostly RNA wich has stability issues out of Cells and/or the Virus. There are indeed tests for the viral genetic code for some sicknesses, most of them are for ones that have no second vector or a low mutation rate, as these lower detection rate and accuracy (second host changes the RNA etc.)

 

Also some of these Tests that work and are approved have been developed over a span of decades (Test itself and verification of conformity (FDA/CE/GS/FCC and how it all is named) 

 

The test that is suggested as  the momentary most accurate is a qRT-PCR test at a cycling of about 40-49 cycles.

And here is the Problem, most reliable PCR results can be obtained at about 35 Cycles at max. for RNA, anything more can lead to problems with the reactands due to exessive heat (depending on the process you heat up to  100°C in some cases higher), which can lead to false positive or false negative Results (due to unspecific Binding of the Polymerase).

So given the Primers are right and they work as intended, the number of cycles is  high enough  to  allow false results, and that with a greatly hightened chance. Some Scientists said that as well. 

BTW. The few minutes you mention can at 40 Cycles be about 2-3 hrs (preparation time included)  which is still fairly short considering some clinical tests need around 2-3 Days

 

Only a short side info for the test question:

The Virus was first known around  sept. to nov. 2019 . The genetic Code had been cracked mostly around end of march 2020 (first parts were decoded around February). Going alone by this information, with inside Info on biotechnology you can assume truly reliable Tests may be available earliest around August. The ones out now are most likely to only detect the Virus in a specific state of infection, that was found at the beginning of the crisis.  

 

16 hours ago, ralis said:

Nowhere did I state there  are no errors in the tests. I merely stated a few things regarding tests. I don’t know what your problem is, but just settle down and discuss. 

sorry did not see that one while writing, its no attack against you i only want to do be a smartass and used your post as starting point  

 

SO to answer the Question about the tests:

The tests available atm. are rushed tests, that may detect the Virus but due to the limited knowledge about it, you may also get false positives, as it tests afaik for the RNA that transcripts AES2 and ToR2 Spike Proteins (correct me if im wrong), which it has in common with other corona viruses.

Truly accurate tests may be available earliest August 2020 in a number that allows Mass testing.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Phantalor

[Toni]

So if tests are not accurate i do wonder how they can make stats of infected people and how they know that the real cause of death of those who die is this virus

[Phantalor]

51 minutes ago, Toni said:

So if tests are not accurate i do wonder how they can make stats of infected people and how they know that the real cause of death of those who die is this virus

You are right and wrong, the news talk to easy on that. 

So first, you don´t die due to the Virus, but the Virus is the cause of death!

Sounds weird right?

 

The Virus itself does not kill you, it infects the cells in your body and reprogramms cells to produce more virus, which after a short time die and produce more Virus. 

Against that is your immune System, which either kills infected cells first or creates antibodies to coagulate virus particles and deactivates them. Which works fairly well if you are younger or dont have some other unseen inherent problems with your body.

 

But if you have problems or are older, your immune system may be driven to overdrive due to the virus. which leads to inflammation. Most likely in the first point of Virus infection (Lungs). This is a secondary disease, caused by the Virus. Also the prevalent Virus particles may lead to your own immune cells attacking your normal cells. And if your body is too weak or reacts too strong, it basically kills itself (Much like allergys but much more extreme).

 

How you find people die due to the virus?

Due to the weak immune system of these people you find this virus in all states (including the ones tests works on) in their body, even in their brain water and muscles, where you normally dont find virus particles. So the cause is truly accurate, but you don´t know exactly which coffin nail was the bigger one.

 

Edit:

The Statistics are well quite a touchy problem, if we go by the actual available tests, we can say they are not correct, by this its more likely that the number of infected is higher, than the statistics say. 

And given that the politicans want to show results that possibility is even higher. But at the same, they want  to show why they do the things they do, so the death toll may be true.

Also there are funny things in mathematics that are called statistics, so you have a test, you know an approx. clarity of the result, so you set an confidence intervall, and then you take the needed parameters and calculate. And depending on your model, you get fairly accurate numbers, we are still talking about a accuracy around +- 10000, but with millions of people, it gives you a good estimate. 

But even then do you want to take the risk to unintentionally kill your grandma?

Edited May 6, 2020 by Phantalor

[ralis]

1 hour ago, Phantalor said:

Exactly, but there are also Problems, with these, especially with tests for viral illness.

Most these tests search for Antibodies or antigenes, and not for the sickness itself, as a Virus uses mostly RNA wich has stability issues out of Cells and/or the Virus. There are indeed tests for the viral genetic code for some sicknesses, most of them are for ones that have no second vector or a low mutation rate, as these lower detection rate and accuracy (second host changes the RNA etc.)

 

Also some of these Tests that work and are approved have been developed over a span of decades (Test itself and verification of conformity (FDA/CE/GS/FCC and how it all is named) 

 

The test that is suggested as  the momentary most accurate is a qRT-PCR test at a cycling of about 40-49 cycles.

And here is the Problem, most reliable PCR results can be obtained at about 35 Cycles at max. for RNA, anything more can lead to problems with the reactands due to exessive heat (depending on the process you heat up to  100°C in some cases higher), which can lead to false positive or false negative Results (due to unspecific Binding of the Polymerase).

So given the Primers are right and they work as intended, the number of cycles is  high enough  to  allow false results, and that with a greatly hightened chance. Some Scientists said that as well. 

BTW. The few minutes you mention can at 40 Cycles be about 2-3 hrs (preparation time included)  which is still fairly short considering some clinical tests need around 2-3 Days

 

Only a short side info for the test question:

The Virus was first known around  sept. to nov. 2019 . The genetic Code had been cracked mostly around end of march 2020 (first parts were decoded around February). Going alone by this information, with inside Info on biotechnology you can assume truly reliable Tests may be available earliest around August. The ones out now are most likely to only detect the Virus in a specific state of infection, that was found at the beginning of the crisis.  

 

sorry did not see that one while writing, its no attack against you i only want to do be a smartass and used your post as starting point  

 

SO to answer the Question about the tests:

The tests available atm. are rushed tests, that may detect the Virus but due to the limited knowledge about it, you may also get false positives, as it tests afaik for the RNA that transcripts AES2 and ToR2 Spike Proteins (correct me if im wrong), which it has in common with other corona viruses.

Truly accurate tests may be available earliest August 2020 in a number that allows Mass testing.

 

Thanks for the technical explanation which adds much to this discussion. A team of researchers at Los Alamos National Labs published this research report which you might want to read.

 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1.full

[Phantalor]

1 hour ago, ralis said:

Thanks for the technical explanation which adds much to this discussion. A team of researchers at Los Alamos National Labs published this research report which you might want to read.

 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1.full

Interesting read, albeit a bit heavy it gives some key points that lead to some later Problems ... sadly i have to use the words like Influenza

So basically they confirm:

1. The Spike Proteins of the Virus mutate, even with only one Vector (the infected pets are not counted in), so the infectability of the virus has already increased and may theoretically get stronger over time or find other Hosts/Vectors

2. You can be infected with both Virus strains simultanious, but unbeknownst 

3. The Virus RNA can be exchanged between strains, which may lead to more diverse kinds of this virus

 

Which leads to some Problems similar to Influenza:

1. There may be no "the Vaccine" as multible strains are and potentially will be in existance

2. The Vaccine most likely has to be heavy in Adjuvances, which may! make it also more detrimental to health  

3. Developement of a vaccine will take longer as mutations have to be counted in

 

Thanks for the article, it was an interesting read ...

btw. at the moment elesvier and pubmed and some others let you access publications about Virus related themes for free ... js

[thelerner]

On 5/5/2020 at 6:04 PM, bax44 said:

https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/

 

In 1968,” says Nathaniel L. Moir in National Interest, “the H3N2 pandemic killed more individuals in the U.S. than the combined total number of American fatalities during both the Vietnam and Korean Wars.”

“
In my lifetime, there was another deadly flu epidemic in the United States. The flu spread from Hong Kong to the United States, arriving December 1968 and peaking a year later. It ultimately killed 100,000 people in the U.S., mostly over the age of 65, and one million worldwide.”

 

An interesting tidbit on the internet is that while H3N2 virus was very catchy, it was close enough to the virus causing the 1957 Pandemic so that people who'd caught that one had immunity to H3N2, otherwise it would have been much worse. 

 

https://www.biospace.com/article/the-1968-pandemic-strain-h3n2-persists-will-covid-19-/   A Good article

"Because H3N2 was closely related to the 1957 pandemic, many people were immune. This kept the 1968 H3N2 flu epidemic relatively mild, especially when compared to the 1918 Spanish flu. For some reason, however – possibly antigenic drift – the second wave of the H3N2 flu that struck in 1969 was more deadly.

Differences in immunity are evident as the virus mutated during its global spread, as shown by the different patterns of infection and death."

[bax44]

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-cuomo-coronavirus-stats-20200506-eyqui4b5lfdn7g6cqswkf6otly-story.html

 

66 percent of people hospitalized were staying at home. Make of that what you will.

[ralis]

31 minutes ago, bax44 said:

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-cuomo-coronavirus-stats-20200506-eyqui4b5lfdn7g6cqswkf6otly-story.html

 

66 percent of people hospitalized were staying at home. Make of that what you will.

Humans are the vectors for the spread of this virus and are all persons honest? Stay at home does not preclude contact with others. 

[bax44]

3 minutes ago, ralis said:

Humans are the vectors for the spread of this virus and are all persons honest? Stay at home does not preclude contact with others. 

 

uh huh.

[Toni]

Quarantines are useless except for making u sick due to lack of exercise and sun

[Toni]

very perturbing news:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8262351/Nurse-New-York-claims-city-killing-COVID-19-patients-putting-ventilators.html

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/09/nhs-staff-forbidden-speaking-out-publicly-about-coronavirus

[bax44]

27 minutes ago, Toni said:

Quarantines are useless except for making u sick due to lack of exercise and sun

 

Quarantine by definition is for sick people. The brillian leaders of the world have played quite the trick and convinced millions of healthy people to lock themselves up . It’s actually kinda impressive , sad, and hilarious all at once.