How to find the lower dan tian ?

[forestofclarity]

Not really. As I stated earlier, its just pixels on the screen. I think your language is strong, but I have no issues with it. I don't really know enough to have an opinion. I'm pretty confident in my teachers, but I'm always willing to learn. I think you sincerely asked why I drew the conclusion I did, so I sincerely shared it. If you have sincerely cultivated what seems to others to be a superpower, and you know its real, who cares what others think? 

 

To be honest, I'd rather hear what you and others have to say, which is why I suggested you overlook the people who disagree and share what you think will be helpful. 

 

8 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

But you seem to be taking it quite personally, why is that? 

 

Again, going back to the jhana debate. Why would 10 different people from 10 different schools all develop concentration but have different outcomes? A few reasons:

 

1. Different bodies/minds/karma. Different people have different capabilities. Similarly, if 10 people went to the same basketball school, I doubt they would all perform at the same level. Not every 1990s Chicago Bull was a Michael Jordan, and most of them were pretty good. 

 

2. Different degrees of training/intensity. Obviously, some one who trains basketball full time is going to be a better player than the person who trains part time on the weekends. But the weekenders are still playing basketball, just at a lower level. In the U.S., there are multiple levels: neighborhood, city, county, State, National, International. They're all playing basketball, just at different levels. 

 

3. Different areas of focus/techniques. Some basketball players are good at dunking, but poor at long shots. Some are the opposites. How can this be with the same people on the same team going through the same training? Well, the short guy is not going to focus on dunking. Mike Patterson has a video showing him taking a sledgehammer to the gut. Does that mean all internal arts people need to be able to do the same? 

 

It is the same thing with change blindness. Most people suffer from change blindness, but with training (i.e. learning some concentration and watching impermanence) you can overcome it. Same people, same eyes, why would it be different? Different focus. 

 

4. Different conceptual frameworks. A teacher once said to me, "Some of the wise people of India looked into the ultimate and called it a Self. Some looked and said there was no Self." What gives? Different ways to explain. 

 

Etc.  

 

4 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

Someone who disagrees with me, disagrees with what i said about dantian and qi development, would you mind answering the following?

How do 10 different people from 10 different schools all develop the dantian and fill it with qi, yet have 10 different outcomes? Same dantian, same qi, different results. 

 

Some schools only spend a few months working on the dantian and others spend many years. Do they achieve the same thing? Is 3 months just as good at 6 years. Will you have the same results? Both say their dantians are developed and filled, but surely this can't be. One of them has to be wrong in their statement, because both can't be right. 

 

[dwai]

On 5/11/2020 at 9:54 PM, 小梦想 said:

It's used to enhance treatment. The man in the video is a doctor, mainly treats patients and uses his qi for this purpose. Truth be told, most who can faqi, not the stuff dwai is sharing, the powerful electric qi, is used by chinese medicine doctors. 

I can't think of one lineage or master who can do this that isn't a doctor and uses it to treat patients.

I think one of the first "esoteric" things my teacher showed me after a few months of studying with him was the "electric" transmission. We don't call it "fa qi", it is a type of fa jin. We had our hands touching in the classic push hands bridge position, actually in the middle of a conversation,  and I felt an electric current-like sensation entering my hand (it felt like I'd touched a live wire). We can do that after becoming proficient in what is called "condensing breathing".

 

Master Liao likes to call 'jin' as "jing". 

 

https://taichitaocenter.com/how-condensing-breathing-creates-jing-power-new-video-course/

 

P.S. this is not a plug for the school or this teacher's video marketing, I promise  

 

Maybe what you're saying is different from that. The only way for me to know is to feel it from someone claiming to do electric qi emissions.  

 

Many senior students of our school are able to generate a field and apply in it for healing, or martially,  etc without any significant draining. The only time I've experienced draining is when we've worked on ling kong jin. Ended up feeling tired and woozy-headed. 

 

Usually, when I do this without touching, just generate the field around someone's problem area, the person receiving it will say that they feel a pulsing, vibrating sensation. Typically with injuries such as blunt traumas etc, it is very effective in removing the pain completely within a few minutes of doing this. Other times, when I send the transmission as a point, the recipient will say they feel an electric shock. We still consider these things as jin transmission, not qi transmission. 

 

To get an understanding of what our system teaches in terms of Jin development and Dantien etc, read the free chapter provided here (click on the look inside) --

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tai-Chi-Classics-Waysun-Liao-ebook/dp/B01MY1QDML

Edited May 13, 2020 by dwai

[小梦想]

9 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

Again, going back to the jhana debate. Why would 10 different people from 10 different schools all develop concentration but have different outcomes? A few reasons:

 

1. Different bodies/minds/karma. Different people have different capabilities. Similarly, if 10 people went to the same basketball school, I doubt they would all perform at the same level. Not every 1990s Chicago Bull was a Michael Jordan, and most of them were pretty good. 

 

2. Different degrees of training/intensity. Obviously, some one who trains basketball full time is going to be a better player than the person who trains part time on the weekends. But the weekenders are still playing basketball, just at a lower level. In the U.S., there are multiple levels: neighborhood, city, county, State, National, International. They're all playing basketball, just at different levels. 

 

3. Different areas of focus/techniques. Some basketball players are good at dunking, but poor at long shots. Some are the opposites. How can this be with the same people on the same team going through the same training? Well, the short guy is not going to focus on dunking. Mike Patterson has a video showing him taking a sledgehammer to the gut. Does that mean all internal arts people need to be able to do the same? 

 

It is the same thing with change blindness. Most people suffer from change blindness, but with training (i.e. learning some concentration and watching impermanence) you can overcome it. Same people, same eyes, why would it be different? Different focus. 

 

4. Different conceptual frameworks. A teacher once said to me, "Some of the wise people of India looked into the ultimate and called it a Self. Some looked and said there was no Self." What gives? Different ways to explain. 

 

Etc.  

Jhana is exactly the same in my opinion. You either achieve jhana or you don't. If you don't fully achieve the jhanic state, then you haven't achieved it. Saying you have is just deluding yourself is it not?

 

Basketball isn't quite the right simile here, but you are putting enthisis (can't spell it lol) on the wrong thing.

 

Having a dantian, full and open channels is the same as having a body for these basketball players, their ability to play basketball is similar to the various degrees at which people are able to emit qi.

 

Without their body, none of them can play basketball, without your dantian you can't emit qi as it should be.

 

There are many layers of emitting qi, many more advanced methods than electric qi, but electric is the base, the first level, after that there are 3 more levels of varying difficulty. This is standard throughout authentic taoist schools. This is standard in other non-taoist schools too, most people on here have just never had the chance to visit lineages scattered throughout china to see this for themselves.

 

If you want to compare it to something then you should compare it with something that is an absolute. Something that is black and white. Though I would have thought the jhanas as black and white, you either enter them or you don't. No inbetween really.

 

 

 

 

[小梦想]

6 hours ago, dwai said:

I think one of the first "esoteric" things my teacher showed me after a few months of studying with him was the "electric" transmission. We don't call it "fa qi", it is a type of fa jin. We had our hands touching in the classic push hands bridge position, actually in the middle of a conversation,  and I felt an electric current-like sensation entering my hand (it felt like I'd touched a live wire). We can do that after becoming proficient in what is called "condensing breathing".

 

Master Liao likes to call 'jin' as "jing". 

 

https://taichitaocenter.com/how-condensing-breathing-creates-jing-power-new-video-course/

 

P.S. this is not a plug for the school or this teacher's video marketing, I promise  

 

Maybe what you're saying is different from that. The only way for me to know is to feel it from someone claiming to do electric qi emissions.  

 

Many senior students of our school are able to generate a field and apply in it for healing, or martially,  etc without any significant draining. The only time I've experienced draining is when we've worked on ling kong jin. Ended up feeling tired and woozy-headed. 

 

Usually, when I do this without touching, just generate the field around someone's problem area, the person receiving it will say that they feel a pulsing, vibrating sensation. Typically with injuries such as blunt traumas etc, it is very effective in removing the pain completely within a few minutes of doing this. Other times, when I send the transmission as a point, the recipient will say they feel an electric shock. We still consider these things as jin transmission, not qi transmission. 

 

To get an understanding of what our system teaches in terms of Jin development and Dantien etc, read the free chapter provided here (click on the look inside) --

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tai-Chi-Classics-Waysun-Liao-ebook/dp/B01MY1QDML

It does sound really interesting. But sadly yes, the only way to really know is to meet.

 

One thing that has put me off these kind of practices is the fact that they don't work on everyone, a non believer would be unaffected. Does this hold true for your jin emissions? Not trap or trying to trick you, I am geniunly interested to hear.

 

I know of one taiji school, here in china, who develop dantians and qi to the same extent that our school does. There are some individual schools who have retained the knowledge, sadly, most don't, but they still think they do which is why we are having this conversation and thread.

 

Your school might be an exception, who knows.

[Lazgrane]

On 5/11/2020 at 11:18 PM, freeform said:

 

Interesting.

 

For me initially Yang Qi felt like a buzzing vibration (physical but subtle)... Later heat... later like an electric shock.

 

Yin Qi initially feels like very pleasant pressure waves then very strong and painful squeezing or expansion.

 

Hey I feel roughly the same. I figured those contract/expansion meant that there is a clog somewhere so I spent a lot of time trying to find and unblock them. And it worked! Whenever I unblock one of those I felt a very pleasant sensation, like a weight got lifted off my body.

 

I also felt Yang Qi in the form of buzzing on the skin/flesh and then prickling burn/shocks which I assumed it's when the Yang Qi got clogged.

[freeform]

5 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

Jhana is exactly the same in my opinion. You either achieve jhana or you don't. If you don't fully achieve the jhanic state, then you haven't achieved it. Saying you have is just deluding yourself is it not?

 

Sadly this is exactly how these arts slowly dissolve into myth and legend.

 

The reality is that these things are not as 'subjective', 'mystical' or subject to interpretation as people think.

 

Within genuine traditions, there are always specific 'signs' for the achievement of every major stage. These are specific, objective and not based on interpretation - meaning 12 jurors who know nothing about these arts, but know what sign to look for - can confirm or deny whether someone has achieved these major milestones.

 

But it's also worth saying that different traditions focus on different things and in different ways. For example not all traditions want to build the dantien and generate huge amounts of qi in the same way. But the genuine ones will always have certain very specific physiological changes associated with their particular route of development...

 

So the good news is that this stuff is "real" in a very real way

 

The bad news is that most people that think they've achieved some high state simply haven't - and will need to confront their delusion (I certainly had to do that over and over!) And humility coupled with a lighthearted attitude really helps with that!

[freeform]

4 hours ago, Lazgrane said:

 

Hey I feel roughly the same. I figured those contract/expansion meant that there is a clog somewhere so I spent a lot of time trying to find and unblock them. And it worked! Whenever I unblock one of those I felt a very pleasant sensation, like a weight got lifted off my body.

 

I also felt Yang Qi in the form of buzzing on the skin/flesh and then prickling burn/shocks which I assumed it's when the Yang Qi got clogged.

 

The thing with Yin Qi - when all the correct qualities are in place, and you release and relax more - the more the Yin Qi will start to pressurise, pull, compress and so on... To the point that it feels really horrible - like your tissue fibres being pulled, pushed and turned inside out. It's pretty gross - and sometimes horrendously painful.

 

The prickling and shocks can also happen as a result of forcing your spine into a certain position instead of using sung (like flattening your lower spine) - so people will feel pins and needles and these little painful electric shocks - often in the hands and fingers... that's an error. This is the nerves reacting to being stressed in some way.

 

The Yang Qi, electric shocks kind of ripple through your body - they move from one place to another (not just appearing as prickling in one spot). When the mind is fully absorbed and sung, the yang qi starts like the physical feeling of nervous excitement and over time changes to the feeling of electric ripples through your body - for example starting at the top of your clavicle, rippling through the ribcage into the kwa and down to the feet.

 

It's worth knowing the difference so you can work out for yourself whether you're feeling the release of tension and the result of incorrect posture 'holding' or actual correct practice.

[dwai]

 

 

 

 

 

3

9 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

It does sound really interesting. But sadly yes, the only way to really know is to meet.

 

One thing that has put me off these kind of practices is the fact that they don't work on everyone, a non believer would be unaffected. Does this hold true for your jin emissions? Not trap or trying to trick you, I am geniunly interested to hear.

It works irrespective of whether the recipient believes or not.  

Why won't it? Very often, the "effect" on a non-believer boils down to whether the non-believer acknowledges that there is some "woo woo" at play. After getting bounced 10-15 feet they'll claim it is just biomechanics. 

One 300 lb football player type once challenged my Master, claiming it was all bs.  My Master looked at him and said, "you look big and strong...I'll have to use two fingers on you." Then he proceeded to tap this guy on his chest with two fingers and he flew into the wall, through the drywall and brick in my Master's school during that time. The skeptic stumbled out of (what remained of the wall), shaking his dazed head, and mumbling "This can't be real...this can't be real" and ran away, never to come back again.

 

When my Master did that to me, all I could sense was the tap on my chest and then sliding off a wall several feet away. My mind couldn't register the time elapsed during which I flew several feet, like the mind had just disappeared. When real power transfer happens, that's how it feels (in case of martial). 

 

Another practice of ours is to do a daoist circle (bagua) meditation. Usually involves 8 people. When our master leads the meditation, sometimes he'll add extra yang into the circle, and a filling up starts to happen with a light, expanding, high frequency fluid, coming from the crown down. Sometimes he'll add extra yin into the circle, and a heavy, dense energy starts to fill us up, from the ground up. 

 

 

 

 

2

9 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

 

I know of one taiji school, here in china, who develop dantians and qi to the same extent that our school does. There are some individual schools who have retained the knowledge, sadly, most don't, but they still think they do which is why we are having this conversation and thread.

 

Your school might be an exception, who knows.

Well, our main teacher studied with a Daoist monk in Taiwan and was a personal friend of Cheng Man Ching as well. And though our system is "Taiji" it goes far beyond the "Quan" part. I've had very detailed instructions on prenatal meditations (both seated, standing as well as moving) which is unlike meditation I've seen in any other taijiquan school. There are very specific methods for working with and developing the 3 dantiens etc.

 

I think @forestofemptiness had a similar circle meditation experience with our primary teacher (grandmaster) many years ago. I remember he had recounted his experiences here, maybe he'll share.  

[小梦想]

4 hours ago, freeform said:

Within genuine traditions, there are always specific 'signs' for the achievement of every major stage. These are specific, objective and not based on interpretation - meaning 12 jurors who know nothing about these arts, but know what sign to look for - can confirm or deny whether someone has achieved these major milestones.

This I think is forgotten by most people nowadays. They want to do qigong, they want to do neigong, but want to do it at their own pace.

Each practice is there for a specific reason, each practice has a very specific result, which must be achieved before you can move onto the next. People forget this, they dabble in this, want to move on to the more advanced practices before their time, don't understand the reason for the practices in the first place.

Each practice has a specific goal, and you must hit this goal before you can move on. The way it works in an authentic lineage is like this. 

You are taught a practice, not told why you are doing it, but told to do it for as long as required. Your teacher will then evaluate your practice as time goes by. If he finds that you have achieved the desired result, then you will be taught the next practice to do. In many cases there is a test to pass, some method developed to see if you have attained the desired result.

ONLY THEN can you move onto the next practice, ONLY THEN are you taught the next practice. The length of time you are to spend on this practice is influenced by many factors, your health, your dedication, YOUR HEALTH (said it twice for a reason).

People do not realize that the state of your health will hugely influence the rate at which you progress. It can DOUBLE or TRIPPLE the time required to achieve the desired results of any given stage. Might even stop you achieving them altogether in which case your teacher needs to treat your health issues, or you won't get anywhere at all. This is a large amount of students btw, most are not healthy enough to succeed in developing and filling the dantain when they first show up. A good 80% of people won't ever get to the point of emitting qi without getting their health sorted out first, they are wasting their time.

 

Building the dantian and qi is hugely influenced by kidney health. If you have kidney deficiency, you can expect to take AT LEAST TWICE AS LONG as people who have healthy kidneys though without any assistance from your teacher, you might never succeed.

 

So, please tell me, how many teachers out there who are teaching dantian development and qi development, test whether or not you have achieved the required result before telling you that you can move on? I would hazard a guess that this number is very very low. Almost all teaching this don't have any dantian development themselves, how will they be evaluating your progress, how would they even know to evaluate your progress when theirs was never evaluated.

 

There is no such thing as doing this practice for 1 month, then moving onto the next, then after 3 months moving onto the next one. You need to achieve the desired result for the practice you were doing before moving onto the next.

 

People always go on about the need for electric qi, the need for qi emission. This is why it's done, to test students, to see if they achieved the desired results before moving on. 

It's done in stages.

First you activate the dantian, once this is done, you then start to fill it. When it's got a certain amount of qi in it, you are tested, required to emit this qi into another person. If you can do it, then you have achieved the desired result.

Now, you can have a practice added, one on top of the first, which helps you to learn how to pull your qi from the dantian into your channels. Later, you are tested again, now you should be able to emit qi into more people because you should have more and your ability to pull qi  out of the dantian has improved.

Now you have another practice added, you now do 3 in a row, build qi in the dantian, pull the qi out and fill the meridians, and the new practice is now doing something new. You get tested at this stage and then another practice is added.

Eventually, years later, you have now done all you need to have balanced qi, a well formed full dantian and open channels. Now you are required to emit qi without any help. If you can do this, then you are ready to move onto the other dantians.

Why is it done this way? Not because emitting qi is cool, not because it's about power, it's done because you require these skills to be able to work on the higher level practices.

 

The higher practices are fueled by qi, which means you need the ability to draw your qi form you dantian into your meridians to fuel the practice you are doing.

 

I cannot explain it any better than this. If people still don't understand why I say they aren't getting anywhere with their current methods if their teachers aren't able to emit qi, then I give up lol.

 

[CloudHands]

4 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

I cannot explain it any better than this. If people still don't understand why I say they aren't getting anywhere with their current methods if their teachers aren't able to emit qi, then I give up lol.

 

 

Hi little dream,

 

I got few questions, in your school : how much is it food/semen related ? What's the recommended died ?

[forestofclarity]

If you think something is black and white, you may wish to revisit some of the classics. There is little to gain from removing the blockages and opening the flesh and channels of the body if one does not do the same thing to the mind. 

 

There is active debate in Buddhist communities about jhanas, their type and definition. You will find different sources on this, from the Suttas through the varying Theravada and Mahayana commentaries. So to say this is a well settled matter is a bit premature. I have found that broadening one's base can be quite helpful in illuminating one's dark spots of knowledge. Of course, too much broadening dilutes the practice, so again there is the middle way. At any rate, jhana is usually related to Buddhist practice, and as I have unsuccessfully pointed out before, the Buddhas taught 84,000 dharma gates because their compassion is limitless. If they had taught one gate, as often claimed (typically being one's own gate of course--- odd how the authentic path typically lines up with one's chosen path), then their compassion would not be unlimited. 

 

In my experience, I have seen signs in myself and other people who promote the hard paths often have fixed and narrow beliefs about it. This makes sense, because on the hard paths, the mind is often fixed and narrowed in order to gain concentration. A hard belief, when challenged (much like a qi block I would propose) often provokes pain. Similarly, I have found many "hard" practitioners quick to argue but seemingly offended or hurt when challenged--- including me. But there is a price to such concentration, and it ends up closing off the very thing we're looking for in the first place. 

 

If it were me, and I learned to emit electric qi, I would be unbothered by online disagreements and challenges. Why? Because I would have the direct experience of the thing in dispute. People can tell me I don't have hands all they like. I can look or feel any time I want and see that they are there. 

 

 

16 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

If you want to compare it to something then you should compare it with something that is an absolute. Something that is black and white. Though I would have thought the jhanas as black and white, you either enter them or you don't. No inbetween really.

 

Well, things often vanish when they fail to adapt--- spiritual teachings are no different. 

 

If you have to rely on 12 jurors to confirm your path, what good is it? I don't need 12 jurors to tell me what my own name. In fact, if they told me a different name, I would still know the truth. It should be evident in one's own experience. And if that is not good enough, lesser forms of knowledge will not bridge the gap. 

 

10 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Sadly this is exactly how these arts slowly dissolve into myth and legend.

 

The reality is that these things are not as 'subjective', 'mystical' or subject to interpretation as people think.

 

Within genuine traditions, there are always specific 'signs' for the achievement of every major stage. These are specific, objective and not based on interpretation - meaning 12 jurors who know nothing about these arts, but know what sign to look for - can confirm or deny whether someone has achieved these major milestones.

 

 

[小梦想]

8 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

If you think something is black and white, you may wish to revisit some of the classics. There is little to gain from removing the blockages and opening the flesh and channels of the body if one does not do the same thing to the mind. 

I believe if you understood the nature of the mind and how it related to the organs and energy flow you would not make this statement. Especially not as it pertains to qi and dantian development.

Buddhism is known to ignore the physical body and in turn results in many many struggling to make any progress. But I am sure you know better.

 

8 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

If it were me, and I learned to emit electric qi, I would be unbothered by online disagreements and challenges. Why? Because I would have the direct experience of the thing in dispute. People can tell me I don't have hands all they like. I can look or feel any time I want and see that they are there. 

If it were you, but it's not. It's easy to say what you would do when you have a million dollars too, but you don't. Those without experience often talk of what they would do if they had this or that. The reality that faces you when you do achieve these things are always different to what you believed them to be.

 

8 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

Well, things often vanish when they fail to adapt--- spiritual teachings are no different. 

Diluting a practice so that the many can attempt to do them is no different than the lineage failing. We see this everywhere, so many systems teach diluted, half truthed practices to develop the dantian and qi, yet none make any progress. I would say this is a failure in itself. Worse than this, people think these diluted practices are the real practices, forever stuck in a cycle of not making any progress.

 

Ignorance is the worst thing possible. Thinking you know better doesn't make it so.

 

I am not here to argue, answered a question that was posed. The arguments ensued when people didn't like what they heard. They want a participation trophy, no two ways about it.

 

If you want to develop your dantian and qi, then you either do it properly or you don't. 

Coming here with Buddhist philosophy or Indian prana philosophy is trolling in my opinion. Nothing to do with the dantians, so I could ask the few who did the same thing. If you are so advanced, if you know so much, why lower yourself to online forums, why try and push your irrelevant knowledge onto people.

 

So many people come to china, learn for 3-5 years then go back and teach what they learned as a complete system. They write books and sell online courses. They barely learned the basics but sell it as a complete system. Then someone who spend more than 3 years here, learned more than just the basics call them out, tell them they are a bit  lost if they think what they are teaching is anything like the real practices, will lead to any of the actual results expected. 

This is especially relevant for taiji. Go to wuhan, learn taiji for 3 months or 6 months then back to your country to open a dojo (or watever the taiji equivalent is) and teach taiji calling themselves shifu. Someone who then spent 15 years at wuhan, stayed long enough to learn the internal practices too, say what those people are teaching are all but worthless in developing taiji, then are trolls?

 

Seems about right to me. But I get it, it's about the ego, telling someone they failed hurts their feelings. Telling someone they are wasting their time hurts their feelings. They'd rather live in the bubble thinking what they are doing is the real stuff. And truthfully, i don't really mind these people. 

The people that try and give advice and act like they are achieved become a problem, the ones giving advice on forums, the worst advise anyone looking to achieve some results can receive. Ofcourse they know better, ofcourse they have developed dantians and qi, it's easy, just 3 months of practice and bam, dantian development done, now you start with the middle dantian lol. 

 

[mla7]

Hey Xiao meng,

 

If you don't mind me asking, what is next for you after you have fully developed the ldt?

 

You mentioned practices to develop the middle and upper dantians.  What do these practices look like and what do they hope to achieve?

Edited May 15, 2020 by mla7
Grammar

[freeform]

10 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

There is little to gain from removing the blockages and opening the flesh and channels of the body if one does not do the same thing to the mind. 

These things are the mind  

[Sebastian]

31 minutes ago, freeform said:

These things are the mind  

 

True.... But there is also the overarching mind in terms of our perspectives, how we handle emotions, our existential views on life etc.

 

These matter a lot. You have the classic example of someone dying in a very long term relationship and their partner loses the will to live, and dies in months afterwards.

 

But not nearly as romantic, our perspectives in daily life matter a great deal. It's almost like we carry their weight energetically, and we cap our spiritual and energetic growth with them.

 

Examples

 

' But I'll never be a happy person again without her'

' Things will always be different now that my business failed'

' I will never be fully able to heal from this disease'

' I'll be forever crippled by my early childhood life circumstances'.

' I am a person with low... (insert anything: libido, intelligence, money, etc..)

 

Perspectives like this are insidious, and they will keep harming us energetically until we break the pattern. So healing the perspective is really important. For example a person may keep praying and asking for "health" but at the same time view themselves as a deeply unhealthy person. In that case, I'd say healing the perspective is more important.

 

Don't have time to finish typing this unfortunately, got class right now, to learn Chinese lol. But it was a sort of tangent anyways. The message was to first clean your ways of thinking otherwise you will be doing Qigong with dirty water. You can open your channels, or pipes in one instant - acupuncture can help, and various modalities, but if you don't clean your ways of thinking they will clog again. This is common sense, and I guess true in the plumbing world too lol.

 

But working on the body to address this issues can be used in conjunction, or even by itself it will directly affect the mind through the organ channels.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Sebastian

[Lazgrane]

There are many mental flaw that came about through energetic system flaws which are results of an unhealthy way of life. For these no amount of mental gymnastic will be able to heal you.

 

Hell even simple posture fixing/light exercises can improve blood circulation and brighten your mind up

[小梦想]

1 hour ago, mla7 said:

Hey Xiao meng,

 

If you don't mind me asking, what is next for you after you have fully developed the ldt?

 

You mentioned practices to develop the middle and upper dantians.  What do these practices look like and what do they hope to achieve?

I don't mind you asking at all.

I have been told what they are but they aren't things to discuss on a forum, I don't do them yet. I am waiting for my teacher to deem me ready (This includes many things, not just qi development) to teach me the higher level practices.

 

The lower dantian and qi are considered basic practices, even the point of emitting qi is considered low level practices, not even worth talking about in many traditions. Considered the foundation required to really start internal development. 

[小梦想]

2 minutes ago, Lazgrane said:

There are many mental flaw that came about through energetic system flaws which are results of an unhealthy way of life. For these no amount of mental gymnastic will be able to heal you.

 

Hell even simple posture fixing/light exercises can improve blood circulation and brighten your mind up

This is so true.

People don't realize the relationship between the mind and the body. The mind and emotions are completely controlled by the function of the organs. An issue in the organs will result in a specific issue in the mind. This is common knowledge in TCM but I remember when we learned this in university, most of my classmates just wrote it off as nonsense.

 

When the organs become strong, qi and blood flow unobstructed, then the mind becomes the same. A peace and contentment that just comes naturally.

We all know people like this, they are just happy, don't stress about things but are organised and motivated in their lives. Check their health and you will find their health is of a very good level.

The opposite is true too. If you find yourself short of temper, incessantly thinking about sex, depressed for no real reason, then no amount of therapy will help. A good TCM doctor can help, you mind will just become calm all by itself as the body heals.

 

Many men in their 40s think having a strong sex drive is a sign of good health, I laughed for quite a long time when i heard this. The kidneys become deficient, sex drive goes up and you cause them to become more deficient, before you know it you look old before your time.

 

I am much more interested in health and healing than I am in teaching qigong, I don't think I will ever teach qigong, just not my cup of tea, but helping people live healthier lives (it includes helping them see their current practice isn't helping them as much as they thought) is what inspires me. 

[小梦想]

1 hour ago, Sebastian said:

 

True.... But there is also the overarching mind in terms of our perspectives, how we handle emotions, our existential views on life etc.

You will find these things are shaped by our health. 

I see this often in clinic, people come and just by how they act and talk, how they express themselves, you already know which organs have issues.  Once you fix their organs, their personality and viewpoints change too, it's quite amazing to witness.

Many don't have the chance to see these things so they don't know, they just repeat things they heard from others who also don't know. Knowledge is too often hearsay that someone thought sounded reasonable to them and adopted this into their way of thinking, speaking of these things as fact,when in truth, they are just something you heard or read somewhere. No real evidence behind what they say, but they say them with authority.

Edited May 15, 2020 by 小梦想

[Cleansox]

50 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

 

An issue in the organs will result in a specific issue in the mind. This is common knowledge in TCM but I remember when we learned this in university, most of my classmates just wrote it off as nonsense.

This is an area which relatively recently have got well-deserved attention in the field of physiology. 

People are starting to chart how the organs affect functional networks in the brain, which is at the level of the most rudimentary basics. 

It will take a long time before WM align with the TCM view, but it is actually moving in that direction. 

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Sebastian said:

But working on the body to address this issues can be used in conjunction, or even by itself it will directly affect the mind through the organ channels.

 

Yes - the issue is that often it's almost impossible to use the mind to fix the mind...

 

So in Daoist systems, we fix issues of the mind (and of the body) with Qi.

 

The mind is the heavenly aspect, the body is the earthly aspect and Qi is the intermediary. By using Qi, there are fewer issues of attachment, aversion and self-delusion.

 

For example, trying to fix something as complex as "I'll never be happy without her" can go so many ways - but 90% of those are in reaction to that 'wound'. Meaning that the 'fix' is a kind of scar tissue that protects the wound...

 

So the fix might be: "I WILL be happy without her!" - goes and sleeps with lots of unsuitable partners, buys a fancy car, gets a hair transplant, pretends to be happy, blindly walks into a relationship etc etc.

 

The Daoist approach is much simpler. It treats this belief as a sort of coagulation or contraction of qi... and by giving this Qi contraction some attention (not the thought-form, not the emotion or the reasons behind it - but only the 'energetic' blob of contraction) - the Qi will naturally begin to mobilise and any pathogenic information will be purged through your practice.

 

You might not even realise that this wound has been let go of!

 

But here's the caveat. The internal arts are not therapy. So these methods can't be applied directly to a specific issue - your qi will choose what can be released next. And of course, there are skills that need to be developed for this to happen of its own accord (such as generating Qi, creating a gentle tendency to expansion (rather than contraction), opening the channels enough for pathogens to purge and so on.)

 

The situation is different in a medical system - where a therapist might be able to remove such wounds in a specific way.

 

The other caveat is that often such beliefs work in conjunction with others - so "I'll never be happy now she's left" can be a small part of a bigger wound that says "I'm not enough"... And what can happen is when "I'll never be happy" is released, there's an empty spot, and the bigger "I'm not enough" part will re-fill that spot with something else that would help to support it.

 

That's why training has to be consistent and combined with introspection.

[waterdrop]

What about the other way around  ...  for instance doing a lot of buddhist meditation reaching enlightnment and healing the body via the mind ? 

Edited May 15, 2020 by waterdrop

[freeform]

1 hour ago, waterdrop said:

What about the other way around  ...  for instance doing a lot of buddhist meditation reaching enlightnment and healing the body via the mind ? 

The number of very unwell Buddhist meditators and abbots I’ve met suggests that it’s not likely.

 

Most people don’t ever manage to achieve ‘meditation’ (Accessing samadhi, Jhanna or yuan shen) - let alone get enlightened. This includes monks that make this their life’s purpose.

 

There are esoteric lines within Buddhism that approach their practice much the same way as alchemical Daoism. And they use Qi, alchemical substances, herbs and use internal processes somewhat similar to Daoist arts. Very difficult to access though.

[waterdrop]

well the ones i have in mind are  vipasana-  mahasi sayadaw technique ,     chogyam trungpa rinpoche ,  and zen korean

defintly  many monks  even for years who are not really advanced spirtually  -   but i would guess for example in viapssana mahasi sayadaw there are a few enlightened people  (i think in other sects too)    and as far as i know they dont talk about " Qi, alchemical substances, herbs and use internal processes "

Edited May 15, 2020 by waterdrop

[freeform]

3 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

vipasana-  mahasi sayadaw technique

Ive spent time with another Burmese  Vipassana line. They do use a lot of body-based approaches - but in my experience their level of meditation and health was low (except from a few exceptional monks).

 

3 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

chogyam trungpa rinpoche

The violent alcoholic who abused his followers and fucked everyone he could? 
 

He was a picture of good physical and mental health! 
 

(I’m joking of course - he’s a perfect example of the pitfalls of spiritual practice)