How to find the lower dan tian ?

[Master Logray]

2 hours ago, waterdrop said:

What about the other way around  ...  for instance doing a lot of buddhist meditation reaching enlightnment and healing the body via the mind ? 

 

According to Taoist writing, theoretically it can be done.  But Buddhist seems never develop the technique.  Because Enlightenment itself is very difficult and is the end itself.  And if one is to be successful taking the path, attachment must be removed, removing body attachment is naturally one of them.  It is a bit of ideological barrier. 

[Piyadasi]

24 minutes ago, freeform said:

he’s a perfect example of the pitfalls of spiritual practice

 

It is genuinely unfathomable to me why people have any respect for him or pay him any attention (other than to see the dangers and what not to do).

 

I imagine it's people who scoff at virtue themselves and are looking forward to experiencing the very same pitfalls as well...

[forestofclarity]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

These things are the mind  

 

Well, ultimately every experience is the mind (at least in my mind!) 

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

Well, ultimately every experience is the mind (at least in my mind!) 

 

 

[freeform]

6 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

Well, ultimately every experience is the mind (at least in my mind!) 

Sure

 

But I don’t mean it in that way.

It’s a big subject that I don’t wish to go into - but in a very inaccurate and over simplified way - the Qi of your channels are the Qi-level manifestation of consciousness.

 

[freeform]

21 minutes ago, Piyadasi said:

It is genuinely unfathomable to me why people have any respect for him

Because he panders to people’s preferences. People like pleasure, drugs, sex etc. And if a spiritual teacher tells you this stuff is super spiritual - then perfect!

[forestofclarity]

No? I thought it might be interesting to start a topic on the issue of Taoist views of consciousness (i.e., analogous to Yogacara or Mind Only). 

 

Just now, freeform said:

It’s a big subject that I don’t wish to go into - but in a very inaccurate and over simplified way - the Qi of your channels are the Qi-level manifestation of consciousness.

 

 

[forestofclarity]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

The Daoist approach is much simpler. It treats this belief as a sort of coagulation or contraction of qi... and by giving this Qi contraction some attention (not the thought-form, not the emotion or the reasons behind it - but only the 'energetic' blob of contraction) - the Qi will naturally begin to mobilise and any pathogenic information will be purged through your practice.

 

 Is this always expressed in the body? 

[CloudHands]

5 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

This is so true.

People don't realize the relationship between the mind and the body. The mind and emotions are completely controlled by the function of the organs. An issue in the organs will result in a specific issue in the mind. This is common knowledge in TCM but I remember when we learned this in university, most of my classmates just wrote it off as nonsense.

 

When the organs become strong, qi and blood flow unobstructed, then the mind becomes the same. A peace and contentment that just comes naturally.

We all know people like this, they are just happy, don't stress about things but are organised and motivated in their lives. Check their health and you will find their health is of a very good level.

The opposite is true too. If you find yourself short of temper, incessantly thinking about sex, depressed for no real reason, then no amount of therapy will help. A good TCM doctor can help, you mind will just become calm all by itself as the body heals.

 

Many men in their 40s think having a strong sex drive is a sign of good health, I laughed for quite a long time when i heard this. The kidneys become deficient, sex drive goes up and you cause them to become more deficient, before you know it you look old before your time.

 

I am much more interested in health and healing than I am in teaching qigong, I don't think I will ever teach qigong, just not my cup of tea, but helping people live healthier lives (it includes helping them see their current practice isn't helping them as much as they thought) is what inspires me. 

 

Hi

I have 3 more questions you may be able to answer :

Is it more about semen retention or sex arousal (bet on the last one) ?

Do you have a particular diet ?

Why are these sects teaching now to westerners ?

 

Thanks for sharing a these informations...

[doc benway]

27 minutes ago, Piyadasi said:

 

It is genuinely unfathomable to me why people have any respect for him or pay him any attention (other than to see the dangers and what not to do).

 

I imagine it's people who scoff at virtue themselves and are looking forward to experiencing the very same pitfalls as well...

 

I think one needs historical perspective to understand his appeal. Trungpa was one of the first teachers to bring Tibetan Buddhism to the West. Whether he walked the walk or not, the teachings he gave were revolutionary and empowering to the people connected with him in the early days. We see lots of examples of people who can share a powerful message but don’t necessarily live it themselves.

 

I’m not defending, he hurt a close friend of mine deeply. Abusers of spiritual authority need to be exposed and brought to justice. Nevertheless, he did turn a lot of Americans on to authentic dharma teachings.

[freeform]

1 minute ago, forestofemptiness said:

 Is this always expressed in the body? 

Are you asking if the stagnation/coagulation happens in the body?

 

The answer to that is - it’s usually expressed on a number of different levels - including physically in the body (for example some people will have physical tensions or adhesions that are ‘holding’ some emotional trauma)... there will be a Qi level counterpart and a shen level counterpart (and sometimes more).

 

[anshino23]

2 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

No? I thought it might be interesting to start a topic on the issue of Taoist views of consciousness (i.e., analogous to Yogacara or Mind Only). 

 

@forestofemptiness: We had a bit of a discussion on this topic in one of the threads I opened. Freeform was kind enough to give his opinion and view on the different approaches having himself learned from a "Top-Down" tradition to begin with and then contrasting that with his now on-going bottom-up approach. Here it is if you want to have a look and haven't yet  

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by anshino23

[小梦想]

15 hours ago, CloudHands said:

 

Hi

I have 3 more questions you may be able to answer :

Is it more about semen retention or sex arousal (bet on the last one) ?

Do you have a particular diet ?

Why are these sects teaching now to westerners ?

 

Thanks for sharing a these informations...

The worst thing a man can do for his health is be aroused all the time, ejaculating on a daily basis will destroy your health in time. Anything bad for your health, is also bad for cultivation. Follow the simple rule of age, if in 20s, 2 days between ejaculation, so if monday have some fun, no fun again till thursday. 30s, 3 days, 40s 4 days and so on.

 

No particular diet, but I try to eat very balanced. Finding a balance is important. I don't eat or drink very cold things, this is super important, people do not realize the damage cold things does to the body. All these woman drinking iced beverages all the time, men drinking a few ice cold beers every evening. Give it 10-20 years, the serious diseases will come. Read up on some basic TCM theory, will help you a lot. 

I do take herbs regularly to balance and boost my organs, I do these formulas myself, to boost spleen and kidneys, to remove heat, to boost yin, improve circulation and so forth. Benefit of having studied TCM I guess. Herbs in my opinion are 100% required to bring balance back to the body, if you don't know herbs, will struggle to heal patients. So, those of you who want to get better, go see a TCM doctor, without the herbs you won't get very far.

 

Not sure, they have always taught to westerners if they were sincere, not all masters are racist, though many are to some extent. Racist in the sense they won't teach anyone other than their own people. What can you do, just move on and hope you find one who doesn't care where you are from.

[CloudHands]

Ok so the teachings you have received matches TCM standard rules. Fine

[小梦想]

10 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

Ok so the teachings you have received matches TCM standard rules. Fine

I would not go that far, modern TCM and what we do aren't the same, the basic theory is the same yes, but many things don't mean the same thing to us as they do to regular tcm doctors.

We treat in different ways, use different formulas, many times contradicting what a modern TCM doctor would do. Understanding basic theory is required in all cases though, you just understand things differently when you have a higher understanding of qi and meridian flow.

[Earl Grey]

35 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

I would not go that far, modern TCM and what we do aren't the same, the basic theory is the same yes, but many things don't mean the same thing to us as they do to regular tcm doctors.

We treat in different ways, use different formulas, many times contradicting what a modern TCM doctor would do. Understanding basic theory is required in all cases though, you just understand things differently when you have a higher understanding of qi and meridian flow.

 

Interestingly, none of the herbal formulas of the Doo Wai system and its qigong match up with TCM, but having a TCM background likewise helps one understand where the divergences arise.

[waterdrop]

2 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

No particular diet, but I try to eat very balanced. Finding a balance is important. I don't eat or drink very cold things, this is super important, people do not realize the damage cold things does to the body. All these woman drinking iced beverages all the time, men drinking a few ice cold beers every evening. Give it 10-20 years, the serious diseases will come. Read up on some basic TCM theory, will help you a lot. 

 

You have solutions to people living in very warm weather     ?     is being in an room with an air conditioner good for you ?   is it worst or better than drinking cold drinks ?    what is your view on cold showers ?

[小梦想]

On 5/16/2020 at 4:39 PM, waterdrop said:

You have solutions to people living in very warm weather     ?     is being in an room with an air conditioner good for you ?   is it worst or better than drinking cold drinks ?    what is your view on cold showers ?

What do you mean? Living in hot environments ice cold drinks are still not good for you.

 

Aircon blowing on you isn't good either, any time areas of your body drop below normal temperature the blood flow and chemical reactions slow down. Basic physics apply to our bodies too.

Cold showers depends who you ask, I don't take cold showers and neither do any of the masters that I know. I know some western research suggests it's good for you, but I prefer my warm showers.

[Takingcharge]

On 15-5-2020 at 12:23 PM, freeform said:

 

Yes - the issue is that often it's almost impossible to use the mind to fix the mind...

 

So in Daoist systems, we fix issues of the mind (and of the body) with Qi.

 

The mind is the heavenly aspect, the body is the earthly aspect and Qi is the intermediary. By using Qi, there are fewer issues of attachment, aversion and self-delusion.

 

For example, trying to fix something as complex as "I'll never be happy without her" can go so many ways - but 90% of those are in reaction to that 'wound'. Meaning that the 'fix' is a kind of scar tissue that protects the wound...

 

So the fix might be: "I WILL be happy without her!" - goes and sleeps with lots of unsuitable partners, buys a fancy car, gets a hair transplant, pretends to be happy, blindly walks into a relationship etc etc.

 

The Daoist approach is much simpler. It treats this belief as a sort of coagulation or contraction of qi... and by giving this Qi contraction some attention (not the thought-form, not the emotion or the reasons behind it - but only the 'energetic' blob of contraction) - the Qi will naturally begin to mobilise and any pathogenic information will be purged through your practice.

 

You might not even realise that this wound has been let go of!

 

But here's the caveat. The internal arts are not therapy. So these methods can't be applied directly to a specific issue - your qi will choose what can be released next. And of course, there are skills that need to be developed for this to happen of its own accord (such as generating Qi, creating a gentle tendency to expansion (rather than contraction), opening the channels enough for pathogens to purge and so on.)

 

The situation is different in a medical system - where a therapist might be able to remove such wounds in a specific way.

 

The other caveat is that often such beliefs work in conjunction with others - so "I'll never be happy now she's left" can be a small part of a bigger wound that says "I'm not enough"... And what can happen is when "I'll never be happy" is released, there's an empty spot, and the bigger "I'm not enough" part will re-fill that spot with something else that would help to support it.

 

That's why training has to be consistent and combined with introspection.

i found this  interesting, i applogise if this is  a bit off topic but  this reminded me of an approach to therapy that hits those points you mention here right on the head. there are actually better ways to work with those issues availsble to regular people

 

in regression to cause hypnotherapy in the dave elman tradition.

 

what is done is what they call an affect bridge is created.  Whitch just means they , after preparing you and getting you consciously ready - they purposefully trigger and intensify the “negative” feeling responce… and “regress” ie with eyes closed follow it all the way back to the initial sensitising event.  Meaning  the originating point where you first felt this feeling ever and created this responce

 

You will move back in time though the many experiences asociated with this Where each time there was addded a layer on to this, resulting in the end product what you came to “therapy” for.  you will move bavk in time through the layers untill you reach the originating point.  Where you meet it with a loving compassionate closed mouthed smile.

the feeling is allowed to be felt untill it dissipates, and what emerges after that  will be the unmet need “the child” there has, you do it mainly with holding nonjudging love as the basis, sometimes something else is needed

 

conscious attention is brought back into what was a closed Off block, And the entire chain forwards in time evaporates, unmakes itself.  

the feel bridge will take you usually to the “symptom producing event” because that is where its current form was born, but that is not the beggining. That responce was born out of earlier present reactivity you follow it back to the start and address it there and the entire wound will be ubdone.  no holes wil be present and the problem will not rebuid itself. Sinds the entire string of knots gets undone

 

 

another process from another person.

 

Requires feeling the feeling and and then be asked where you can sense its  counterpart in your mind space, this will be some kind of representation like a dark spot or whatever it shows up as,  you will then gently invite it to dissolve back into the field it was born out off, —

you will get a no,  rather then forcing it to collapse, you will feel into the system and be guided to some different place witt another darkspot (or however it shows up) you will get another no —- and be guided to another spot, youl get a no — and you follow your way feeling through this chain untill you get to a spot that feels more, wide a bit more open but still a contraction - you will gently invite it to return dissolve back into the whole — you will get a clear yes.  Youl then follow it forwards and the darker spots will - now dissolve as well untill your back to the first one whitfh now dissolves snd the entire thread and its accompanied responce will be gone.

unsurprisingly these 2 processes have helped people heal from serious diseases.
 

just tought id share it here as it related to what you wrote.

id be curious to hear how this relates to what you wrote in the quote “ 

Are you asking if the stagnation/coagulation happens in the body?

 

The answer to that is - it’s usually expressed on a number of different levels - including physically in the body (for example some people will have physical tensions or adhesions that are ‘holding’ some emotional trauma)... there will be a Qi level counterpart and a shen level counterpart (and sometimes more“ 

 

  If nothing else its a way that adresses some of the issues you brought up and works them in a way that creates a positive result available to regular people 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Takingcharge