Post-Industrial, post-crash, Taoist village.

[Encephalon]

Your Taoist/Buddhist friend wins the lottery and builds a small village in the Canadian Rockies.  

What is it like?  Who's there?  Off-grid?  Vegetarian?  How would you spend your day (besides raising food and practicing chi kung, of course)?

 

[Taomeow]

Ah, if only.  

 

44 minutes ago, Encephalon said:

 

What is it like?  Who's there?  Off-grid?  Vegetarian?  How would you spend your day (besides raising food and practicing chi kung, of course)?

 

 

1. It is modeled on a tribal village somewhere where people still live like that.  E.g. this one in Svaneti, Georgia (the country):

 

 

2. Who's there.  That's the tough part.  In some places, people who organize such communities interview all potential residents before allowing them to join.  So a set of expectations/requirements/desirable traits/unacceptable traits would have to be worked out by the founding mothers and fathers, and that would have to be brainstormed very thoroughly and agreed upon in advance.  I'm guessing most projects would fail at this stage.  (I know because I was part of such project at one point.)  Which is better than failing later due to hidden problems and interpersonal tensions that start popping up after the commitments have been made. 

 

3. Off grid would be ideal.

 

4.  No way.  Whoever wants to be a vegetarian for whatever reason can be a vegetarian.  Whoever wants this to be a requirement, expectation or preference ought to join a monastery of the corresponding denomination, not a village.

 

5. I would spend my free time foraging, fishing, hunting and making medicinal and tonic herbal remedies. 

[SirPalomides]

In Georgia from what I hear there are lots of jokes about people from Svaneti, casting them as particularly wild, tough, crazy, etc.

[SirPalomides]

1 hour ago, Encephalon said:

Your Taoist/Buddhist friend wins the lottery and builds a small village in the Canadian Rockies.  

What is it like?  Who's there?  Off-grid?  Vegetarian?  How would you spend your day (besides raising food and practicing chi kung, of course)?

 

 

I would hope for a council form of administration, and community of goods. From each according to ability, to each according to need. Artists, artisans, craftspeople who are willing to share their knowledge. A willingness to shelter those in distress. Off-grid or not would not be important to me, though this might depend on what shape society has taken around us. Vegetarian, no. I would spend my day writing probably- I would hope for a lot of artistic collaborations.  

[Taomeow]

13 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

In Georgia from what I hear there are lots of jokes about people from Svaneti, casting them as particularly wild, tough, crazy, etc.

 

That's not nice of them, but then, inferiority complexes play out as superiority stances all over the world.  The Svans are a pretty cool people from what I know, and have been for a very long time, they're ancient.  The Greek geographer and historian Strabo wrote that “the Svans are a powerful people and, I think, the most courageous and brave in the whole world. They are at peace with all neighboring nations.”  Pliny, Ptolemy, Appius, Eustathius of Thesalonia all wrote about hospitable, enlightened and strong Svans.  But modern history is the history of denigration of everybody by everybody... 

 

In any event, I didn't mean we would be Svans, I just have this idea that any village created as a retreat for the modern people who haven't lived a tribal life ever before is better off modeling its ways, or at the very least its architectural arrangements, on those of the people who maintained the traditional ways, to the extent possible.  I wouldn't want any high tech domes Buckminster Fuller or whatever else "futuristic" style slapped in the face of those mountains.  To say nothing of the horrible feng shui of most of them, there's also practical considerations -- e.g. it would be impossible to heat up any of those in winter without going high tech and on grid, or even to discourage spiders from having a ball on an unreachable ceiling.  To say nothing of many more features of the "theoretical" dwellings based on ideas rather than immersion experience that I would consider all-around idiotic, no matter how aesthetically appealing.       

[liminal_luke]

47 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

1. It is modeled on a tribal village somewhere where people still live like that.  E.g. this one in Svaneti, Georgia (the country):

 

 

 

Sign me up!

[SirPalomides]

Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to pile on the Svans. They are, I believe, stereotyped as examples of pure Georgian culture, untainted by the problems of modern civilization- this stereotyping can be both complimentary and insulting. You can see a similar role played by Bedouins in Arab culture, and cowboys in American culture, etc- depending on someone's mood, they can be admirable specimens of ruggedness and authenticity, or dangerous hicks. I suppose this kind of snobbery and stereotyping goes back to the first time anyone formed themselves into a village and looked back out at the newly minted outsiders.

[ralis]

4 hours ago, Encephalon said:

Your Taoist/Buddhist friend wins the lottery and builds a small village in the Canadian Rockies.  

What is it like?  Who's there?  Off-grid?  Vegetarian?  How would you spend your day (besides raising food and practicing chi kung, of course)?

 

Good to see you back after a somewhat long hiatus!
 

In thinking about post-crash the first thing that comes to mind are the masses of desperate persons that will form roving gangs. Isolation does not in anyway afford protection from armed white supremacist gangs. 
 

Short growing season would be a real problem at higher elevations. I live at 7k ft elevation and it can be difficult if one has no experience. Cannabis requires a long flowering time beginning first day of summer which can be as long as three months. 

As Robert Heinlein put it, “specialization is for insects” which is a problem for most that have a specialized education and career. 
 

A well made knife is my best friend. Not razor sharp, but utilitarian  
 

Perform minor surgery which includes setting a broken bone. 
 

Sanitation. 
 

Deliver a baby. 
 

Build a house, walls etc. using materials at hand. 
 

Adapt to severe weather/cold and blizzards. 
 

CPR

 

Grow food without the use of chemicals/fertilizers and pesticides. 
 

Learn to deal with the forces of nature; mountain lions, grizzlies, rodents. I have been hiking in Wyoming in July when berries are ripe and grizzlies are feasting which was a scary experience. If anyone tells me that they aren’t scared in that scenario, they are lying! 

Use a compass without a map. 
 

Learn orienteering so as to not get lost. 
 

All the above are learned by experience and not some weekend or lengthy workshop. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by ralis

[Nungali]

What would I do ?   Hang out with this guy   ^  .

 

 

reminds me of a joke :

 

A man asks a woman if she was going to be trapped on an island alone with one man,  indefinitely  , who would it be ?

 

"" John Wayne "

 

"Why him ?"

 

"Well, he is big and strong, can hunt and fish, chop firewood , fight off baddies and dangerous animals , is righteous and a gentleman  , defends the meek   ....  " 

 

Man;  " Hmmmm , come to think of it , I would choose John Wayne too . "

 

[Encephalon]

Cut and pasted from my previous article, the following skill sets have been prioritized for "eco-villages" of all kinds, Taoist or otherwise.  I believe most architectural considerations will mandate extreme insulation, as we would want to reduce as much as possible energy expended on heating or AC.  Obviously, rammed-earth or underground design maximizes the most prevalent building material available. 

And, of course, humanure will prevail.  No way around this.  Gotta close that loop!

 

Passive solar design

Organic bio-intensive food production

Animal husbandry

Permaculture and aquaculture

Natural and preventive medicine as well as “ditch” medicine

Book-binding and printing

Low-cost short wave radio

Computer-free mathematics

 

(Greer, J.M. 2016)

 

Further specialization as defined by Lewis Dartnell for a post-industrial reboot included –

Clothing

Water power

Transportation

Advanced chemistry (biodiesel, hydroponics, medicines)

(Darnell, L., 2014)

https://www.amazon.com/Knowledge-Rebuild-Civilization-Aftermath-Cataclysm-ebook/dp/B00DMCV5YS/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+knowledge&qid=1589566534&sr=8-1

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Encephalon

[qofq]

back to basics

 

very minor solar powered electrical conveniences 

 

Edible Forest Gardening and traditional craft and preservation techniques by day

 

familial/communal music time and home distilled spirits by night

[thelerner]

On 6/2/2020 at 2:11 AM, qofq said:

back to basics

very minor solar powered electrical conveniences

Edible Forest Gardening and traditional craft and preservation techniques by day

familial/communal music time and home distilled spirits by night

I like that. 

 

Originally I was going for a hobbit hole kind of village, but to be more realistic and down to earth, I'd start on the outskirts of town with a building.  3 or 4 stories.  A housing Co-op, owned and run by tenants.   Room for 8 or 10 families.  I love the idea of an Edible Forest Garden.  Have enough room for a substantial well thought out edible garden as well as for expansion.

 

Be green, but not obsessively.  Solar and good insulation.  Maybe shared cars too.  You wouldn't have to work there, but a certain amount of hours and jobs would have to be required, as well as some pot lucks and shared meals scheduled. 

 

<I suppose if its post-apocalypse being further from town would have advantages.  Matter of fact location would be extremely important.  Better to have it built and going before a crash.  A nice size pond or small lake for water and fishing.  A stream or river, nearby forest.  A climate without too much extremes. >

Edited June 4, 2020 by thelerner

[qofq]

20 hours ago, thelerner said:

 

<I suppose if its post-apocalypse being further from town would have advantages.  Matter of fact location would be extremely important.  Better to have it built and going before a crash.  A nice size pond or small lake for water and fishing.  A stream or river, nearby forest.  A climate without too much extremes. >

 

Don't forget to take into account climate models for the coming decades as that could really swing the choice of location.  I wish I was more of a scholar, as I would put all this relevant data together in a digital format.  But, I mostly feel and improvise my way through life.

 

Heck, It's taking every thing I got right now to just remain centered in all this societal fray. 

 

Banana clip... or Banana tree...

Banana clip... or Banana tree...

Banana clip... or Banana tree...

 

I need more Genuine Taoist Allies.

 

 

[Sanity Check]

It would be a steampunk technology friendly village utilizing its own cryptocurrency.

 

Steam power is cleaner with longer longevity than solar, wind, nuclear, etc.

Cryptocurrencies are useful for protecting local economies from dangers of hyperinflation, etc.

 

Science and technology would intermingle with taoism and esoteric study.

 

 

[senseless virtue]

1 hour ago, Sanity Check said:

Steam power is cleaner with longer longevity than solar, wind, nuclear, etc.

 

And how exactly are you planning to produce this "clean steam power" if not taking the energy first from solar, wind, or nuclear sources? Also, using steam is pretty inefficient as far energy conservation and utilization goes.

[Sanity Check]

13 hours ago, virtue said:

 

And how exactly are you planning to produce this "clean steam power" if not taking the energy first from solar, wind, or nuclear sources? Also, using steam is pretty inefficient as far energy conservation and utilization goes.

 

 

 

The perfect steam engine is one which only requires sunlight and water to produce power.

 

A system or mirrors heat water past boiling to produce steam. The steam is expelled to produce power, then re-collected and re-harvested within a closed loop. So the water can essentially be re-used.

 

This format could only function during the day and so would need to be built to 2x or 3x nominal energy requirement. With a bank of batteries to provide energy at night. Even with this daytime only arrangement, the technology would be flex fuel friendly and could be modified to use wood, gasoline and other things as alt energy sources.

 

There are steam engines more than 100 years old that are still functioning today. The technology is underrated. Their main drawbacks are size and constant noise. Size isn't so much an issue for a village and thanks to modern technology soundproofing is a real thing. Which could open the door to steam engines for domestic power production.

 

 

 

The sun cooker above describes the basic principle.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Sanity Check

[ralis]

16 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

It would be a steampunk technology friendly village utilizing its own cryptocurrency.

 

Steam power is cleaner with longer longevity than solar, wind, nuclear, etc.

Cryptocurrencies are useful for protecting local economies from dangers of hyperinflation, etc.

 

Science and technology would intermingle with taoism and esoteric study.

 

 

 

Will you be wearing steampunk 19th century outfits? Hate to break it to you, but cryptocurrencies are not solid investments given the extremely fluid nature of that market. Also cryptocurrency mining is using massive amount of electrical power and therefor more CO2  emissions. Are you a libertarian? Neoliberal?

[Sanity Check]

1 hour ago, ralis said:

 

Will you be wearing steampunk 19th century outfits? Hate to break it to you, but cryptocurrencies are not solid investments given the extremely fluid nature of that market. Also cryptocurrency mining is using massive amount of electrical power and therefor more CO2  emissions. Are you a libertarian? Neoliberal?

 

 

There are small towns and villages who created their own cryptocurrency for local use like aurora coin. Elon Musk and Virgin Galactic have discussed how a human settlement on mars might best be served by launching its own natively utilized cryptocurrency. For a small taoist village it could be worthwhile to try as an experiment.

 

Crypto mining targets cheap electricity. That usually describes untapped, surplus, sources of hydroelectric energy being generated by dams. The only time crypto mining utilizes dirty energy that is coal or fossil fuel based, is when its being subsidized by a government for the purpose of boosting local economies or creating jobs.

 

I try to 100% ignore generalized labels like libertarian and figure out the facts of things. That's my party. It seems to have near zero representation in global populations and be utterly dead these days.

[zerostao]

I almost called dibs on the address 64 baguazhang circle.

Currencies, forget it.

Reckon I'll continue along the path of forest hermit.

Or may consider the right bunch of nomads.

 

Edit> choice of Canadian Rockies offers strategic defense by its geography. Still, I think your gonna want some security force.

It's a beautiful ideal. I think a true Shangri La is possible.

Edited June 19, 2020 by zerostao

[ralis]

14 hours ago, zerostao said:

I almost called dibs on the address 64 baguazhang circle.

Currencies, forget it.

Reckon I'll continue along the path of forest hermit.

Or may consider the right bunch of nomads.

 

Edit> choice of Canadian Rockies offers strategic defense by its geography. Still, I think your gonna want some security force.

It's a beautiful ideal. I think a true Shangri La is possible.

 

Intentional communities usually fall apart after the dream fades and the real work begins. Auroville, Israeli Kibbutzim and The Farm have had success but not without myriad problems, whereas most have fallen apart due to ideological, financial and a host of other problems. A Marxist communal model most likely works well and must be kept to a small scale.

[zerostao]

I've been to a few communal communities called "the farm".

If you're referring to Stephen and Ina Mae's tennessee farm, I've been there several times. I was included in a few green party sessions, mid to late 90's on the farm. I began venturing down that way, along with mcminnville and murfreesboro late 80s, haven't been there since 2007. Ram Dass' name was dropped there often by Stephen and others. From the beginning, the farm, intended to be outwardly directed and influential. Which seems to differ from encephalon's ideal of being tucked away in the canadian rockies.

" a host of other problems " includes ego, jealousy, and other components of human nature which are not removable even in communist environments. The Guru complex will manifest.

I know you're well read ralis, I think we've covered some of Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah. Also relevant is Sigmund  Freud's Civilization and its Discontents.