If i am 100% happy and accepting to present moment - why do anything ?

[Earl Grey]

Water drop, go read chapter 81 of the TTC, something often referred to by me and others about truth: you get what you need to hear, not what is pleasing to hear. 
 

CT and I disagree fundamentally on a couple issues, but we still get along. It’s a useful skill to learn rather than to write someone off completely and I am here to offer help, whether you believe me or not. I could even point out how after months of antagonism how many people went from being people I loathed to people I call friends here.

 

Keep practicing and let us know when you’re serious about in proving.

[waterdrop]

@C T i edited this before seeing you comment  - but maybe you replied before seeing my edit  -  i do think it was rude of you  and out of place     - but i wrote  im not good with words  or at least to lazy to explain myself with them  especially on arguments    - so to explain why its out of place is something i cant do well now so i wont

Edited May 12, 2020 by waterdrop

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, waterdrop said:

i edited this before seeing you comment  - but maybe you replied before seeing my edit  -  i do think it was rude of you  and out of place     - but i wrote  im not good with words  or at least to lazy to explain myself with them  especially on arguments    - so to explain why its out of place is something i cant do well now so i wont

\_(ツ)_/¯

[C T]

15 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

@C T i edited this before seeing you comment  - but maybe you replied before seeing my edit  -  i do think it was rude of you  and out of place     - but i wrote  im not good with words  or at least to lazy to explain myself with them  especially on arguments    - so to explain why its out of place is something i cant do well now so i wont

 

As explained, I wasn't being rude, but if you don't have the patience, I can see why it was perceived that way. 

More progressive members than me have been reaching out to offer help, and earlier on, I've expressed understanding and empathized with your situation, and why maybe someone like yourself might require a bit more patience to work on getting the right footing in terms of interacting with others. Nobody has the time to argue with you. If you value input, then be sincere with others who offer it. 

 

If you make the effort to explain your difficulty with communication, others will appreciate the situation and be more accommodating. But if you start throwing accusations around, I'm afraid it can get pretty lonely here pretty fast. 

[senseless virtue]

Finally 100% happy and accepting. Totally okay with everything.

 

Spoiler

 

Totally okay.

[ilumairen]

2 hours ago, waterdrop said:

 
Yes

 

 

sitting being aware of whatever arises  

 

 

 
i am always serious  -  if you mean the last question set  -  they are "dumbed"down a bit  but there is serious reason i ask them  and the replies to them and the reason for the reply will be taking VERY seriously   -  its hard for me to put into words exactly what i want to ask but if you give a good reply than i take it  and not only as an answer to what i ask but also in general  

but they are a ton of questions which will need time to reply to   -   they are just examples  (Example questions)  that can be nice to be answered but just examples of the question they are trying to make clearer  which is  :
 

or clearer  :    How do i know what decisions to make ?             (and more clear im aiming for the direction of answers in the line of  : "follow your  intution / higher self etc" )
 

 

Hi waterdrop,

 

Given the interaction here, I would suggest you don't seem 100% happy and accepting to present moment. And I wonder if this (100% happy and accepting) is some ideal you've picked up somewhere. What would this actually look like to you? And what value do you see in this as a position instead of just the outward manifestation of something deeper? 

 

Are you looking for how to find the something deeper? Or looking for confirmation of your present belief and understanding?

[waterdrop]

Quote

Given the interaction here, I would suggest you don't seem 100% happy and accepting to present moment

Never was happy in the first place  and now thanks to some replies here   ...  i am much less than what i was 

the question is "if i am "  not  "i am"
 

Quote

If i am 100%  fully  content with the peresent moment accepting whatever is .........  why would i do anything ? 

its a question  (a very very common one in buddhist forums btw  - asked again and again in different variations)  many ask it for the theoretical discussion it makes but i ask it to draw conclusions for my life and how to direct  it , since i am planing to up my practice intensity (which is very low atm - which makes me even more sensitive to trolls and rudeness)  -   but again to explain it will be hard for mea  especially when all the trolling going on which just makes me be more defensive and seems like many are looking for some fault so they can neat pick over it especially in threads it seems people are just going with the herd so once some troll like eaerl  diverts the subject  than things go down very fast

about your questions seem ok and in line but i dont think this thread is a place to continue serious discussion at the moment    - so im out

[idiot_stimpy]

If you're still experiencing suffering then you're not free.

 

To be 100% fully content with the present moment accepting whatever is, can be more than a lifetimes work.

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, waterdrop said:

 
Yes

 

 

sitting being aware of whatever arises  

 

 

 
i am always serious  -  if you mean the last question set  -  they are "dumbed"down a bit  but there is serious reason i ask them  and the replies to them and the reason for the reply will be taking VERY seriously   -  its hard for me to put into words exactly what i want to ask but if you give a good reply than i take it  and not only as an answer to what i ask but also in general  

but they are a ton of questions which will need time to reply to   -   they are just examples  (Example questions)  that can be nice to be answered but just examples of the question they are trying to make clearer  which is  :
 

or clearer  :    How do i know what decisions to make ?             (and more clear im aiming for the direction of answers in the line of  : "follow your  intution / higher self etc" )
 

 

 

Aha !   Now i get you .

 

But my answers to others in this area have not been popular as I find 'the masses' often dont get this .

 

I have seen a lot of people make blunders and a mess of things due to bad decisions ... when they never had to make those decisions in the first place . I mean, I thought I was making sense  and  it was obvious but no, a friend helped me realise that.  he looked surprised at me and said 'Thats what my father used to say ! "   What I said was " You dont always have to  try out things  and fail to see what works or does not, you can observe others and learn from their experience ."

 

This sounds obvious, but it isnt for a lot of people .  I pinned my XGF down on that one , we discussed it in depth , she insisted SHE needed the direct experience to learn , made terrible decisions and suffered from it ( as did her children ) , but just kept doing it .

 

Basically, it's 'smarts'.    Sufis talk about it ; 'learning how to learn' .   We need to learn this stuff as we go along .  We have the accrued observation of others actions as a demonstration  AND  more importantly, our own demonstrations ;  you sip a drink, you dont like it, you decide not to drink it , you do, so you drink more. You observe and analyse the results, on yourself and externally .

 

Basically, its a 'feedback loop' - you try something, you analyse for result, good or bad, you modify accordingly and reimplement then try again, analyse again, modify again , etc .   Some people seem to need to do the same action over and over again without analysis or modification .   If the system isnt intelligent , the loop won't work . 

 

 

- I hope that made some sense to you  .... I might have got confused myself in there       

[forestofclarity]

If you were a Buddhist, you would act out of compassion. As a Taoist, I imagine that the actions would just spontaneously arise. And yet, there is not necessarily a contradiction between the two positions. 

 

Some teachers have suggested giving it a shot. Lay around and try to do nothing as long as possible. See what happens. 

 

21 hours ago, waterdrop said:

If i am 100%  fully  content with the peresent moment accepting whatever is .........  why would i do anything ? 

 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, steve said:

 

Exactly...

If you are sitting on the beach, everything is fine, what more is there to do?

Being content and accepting of all situations, however, does not mean that nothing ever needs doing.

One needs to shit, eat, shelter from a storm, interact and connect with people, and help others in need.

When the need arises the motivation to act will be there, even in the presence of contentment and acceptance. 

Perhaps I should say especially in the presence of contentment and acceptance.

The reason is that we see more clearly in that frame of mind.

We know more accurately what is needed and have less impediment to acting with precision.

 

 

Yes.   I can understand and agree with the threads premise - but only 'in the moment ' . I do go into the state he explains , at times , but it doesnt last long as something eventually arises that 'needs to be done ' .

 

The 'trick' is to maintain that inner 'satisfaction and happiness'  while we move into 'action' .   Then life becomes not just contentment , but joy .  in action .

 

 

[waterdrop]

 @steve  

do you see other reasons for action in that state other than not dying and helping others ? 

[liminal_luke]

Logically, it makes sense that contented people wouldn´t do much, but if you look around you´ll see that´s not the case. Happy people everywhere are busy baking cakes and building houses and making scientific discoveries.  It´s the depressed ones that are in bed sleeping.

[waterdrop]

@liminal_luke 

to make it clearer im talking about happiness from meditation practice  from accepting all that comes in life  -  100% happiness 

so in that case of a truly happy person   and enlightened being  -  im asking  why is he doing what he does  - why is he active

 

[liminal_luke]

2 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

@liminal_luke 

to make it clearer im talking about happiness from meditation practice  from accepting all that comes in life  -  100% happiness 

so in that case of a truly happy person   and enlightened being  -  im asking  why is he doing what he does  - why is he active

 

 

I can´t figure it out either, Waterdrop.  All I can tell you is that the happy people here on the board, the people who´ve made a lot of progress with their spiritual lives from meditation  -- progress is arguably the wrong word but whatever -- those people do plenty. 

[doc benway]

40 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

 @steve  

do you see other reasons for action in that state other than not dying and helping others ? 

 

Yes, no limit to what arises in life.

The one who does all the doing is not so active when in that state of peace. 
Therefore nothing to interfere with whatever arises in each moment.

No one there to not want to do things... things happen. Like Nungali, that state comes and goes for me but is much more familiar and present than in the past.

 

32 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Logically, it makes sense that contented people wouldn´t do much, but if you look around you´ll see that´s not the case. Happy people everywhere are busy baking cakes and building houses and making scientific discoveries.  It´s the depressed ones that are in bed sleeping.

 

 

27 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

@liminal_luke 

to make it clearer im talking about happiness from meditation practice  from accepting all that comes in life  -  100% happiness 

so in that case of a truly happy person   and enlightened being  -  im asking  why is he doing what he does  - why is he active

 

 

You are speaking of unconditional happiness. It is the joy and wisdom of our natural and unconditioned state. So one thing important to understand is that the interference (presence) of the mind, the thinker that is asking your question, is the very obstacle to what it is trying to understand. The intellect can never understand this state, but awareness can experience it. We create a projection of our fantasies and use that as a reference point for this “state.” But the state we are referring to is literally beyond all reference points. We can’t describe it but can give instruction to  move towards the experience.

 

The experience occurs without the strong and defined sense of self involved, theoretically no sense of self but that is another abstraction and projection of fantasy unless you’re a Buddha or Immortal. When we think about what such a state is like, we make assumptions rooted in our unfamiliarity that don’t apply. If you are content, why NOT do something? And most importantly, who are you referring to that does or does not? That one is not engaged so the question doesn’t really apply in the first place. 

 

If we live in relation to others, to a society, things come up naturally and spontaneously. We embrace what comes up and let it breath. It takes care of itself in a natural way.

 

One certainly can lockup in a cave and do nothing. It is not such a natural thing for a person to do but it can be good training. One can equally live whatever life presents fully without being shut away. 

 

The other piece is that the unconditioned state has its own intelligence that far exceeds the intellect. In my tradition it’s called an Inner Refuge.  A part of this process is first making a connection, then developing confidence in its intelligence, and letting life flow.

[thelerner]

23 hours ago, waterdrop said:

If i am 100%  fully  content with the peresent moment accepting whatever is .........  why would i do anything ? 

whether happy or sad.. life happens and often requires an action.  Not just chopping wood and carrying water.. at some moment you're hungry and the rent is due.   That doesn't have to put you off your happiness but it requires action. 

 

I don't aim for 100%.  Batting 500 with a couple of walks is good enough for me. 

and damn better then my average. 

[wstein]

19 hours ago, wstein said:

Because it is in alignment with your (inner) nature to act. Strictly speaking this is not 'doing' but still is action of your mind and body. This 'non-doing' just occurs spontaneously and is not caused (nor inhibited) by your intent or choice.

 

17 hours ago, waterdrop said:

@wstein    can  you expand a bit on this point please

also is there a name for this (so i can google search on it) ?

I *think* this is part of non-doing, but I could be wrong as I didn't learn it from a person or internet.

 

When you are fully expressing your inner nature (inner divine) action happens around you. This may include your body or mind as they are not you, just a place you inhabit. Action spontaneously occurs when your inner nature is in alignment with your environment in a way that is it appropriate for you to act.

 

As a way to make this more tangible, what happens if you come upon a beautiful sunset or a loved one? Do you smile? Notice that you smile because of the alignment of how you align with the environment around you. There is no need to want to smile, nor any need to decide to smile. It just happens. When one is fully realized, there is only alignment and everything is a way you would have it be without any need to fix, change, improve, alter, force, overpower anything. The alignment flows freely form you and reality is thus as you would have it.

 

The biggest hurdle towards this end is to remove all the blocks that prevent you inner nature from shining forth.

 

Also should you move towards something that is not as you would have it be that way, it will be a way you would have it by the time you arrive there. It comes into alignment with you.

 

I know you are wondering how all that is possible. The answer is that this universe is a co-creation in which you are a participant creator. You are continuously creating all that is around you. When there is no obstruction blocking your inner divine from expressing fully into the universe, you always create something in alignment with your inner nature.

[waterdrop]

6 minutes ago, wstein said:

I *think* this is part of non-doing, but I could be wrong as I didn't learn it from a person or internet.

 

When you are fully expressing your inner nature (inner divine) action happens around you. This may include your body or mind as they are not you, just a place you inhabit. Action spontaneously occurs when your inner nature is in alignment with your environment in a way that is it appropriate for you to act.

 

As a way to make this more tangible, what happens if you come upon a beautiful sunset or a loved one? Do you smile? Notice that you smile because of the alignment of how you align with the environment around you. There is no need to want to smile, nor any need to decide to smile. It just happens. When one is fully realized, there is only alignment and everything is a way you would have it be without any need to fix, change, improve, alter, force, overpower anything. The alignment flows freely form you and reality is thus as you would have it.

 

The biggest hurdle towards this end is to remove all the blocks that prevent you inner nature from shining forth.

 

Also should you move towards something that is not as you would have it be that way, it will be a way you would have it by the time you arrive there. It comes into alignment with you.

 

I know you are wondering how all that is possible. The answer is that this universe is a co-creation in which you are a participant creator. You are continuously creating all that is around you. When there is no obstruction blocking your inner divine from expressing fully into the universe, you always create something in alignment with your inner nature.

Wow   , what a reply

-    so with your example   :  i get i can enjoy it when its there but   would i go to see the sunset ?      take my car and drive to the sea to enjoy the sunset ? 



(about co creation i heared about that that and lean towards that  strongly and might have seen semi evidence its real )

Edited May 13, 2020 by waterdrop

[qofq]

On 5/11/2020 at 4:21 PM, waterdrop said:

If i am 100%  fully  content with the peresent moment accepting whatever is .........  why would i do anything ? 

 

This can't be answered, and you'd benefit more from practicing with an authentic teacher than perseverating on this kind of ideation. 

 

"I've never tasted peaches, what will a peach taste like"  

 

You taste it and then you know.  

 

Only the Peach we're actually discussing here gets sweeter with every bite  =)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[senseless virtue]

The problem many people struggling with happiness and acceptance have is their own distorted view of self.

 

In your original state when you were born you held no one superior or inferior to yourself. You were pretty happy pooping yourself in the diaper and everyone else loved you for that, and why wouldn't they?

 

What changed? Somehow, the world has given you impression that others' approval of you is conditioned and this seems to have affected you deeply.

 

Other people can have any opinion and even rude behavior if they wish because they too are allowed to be neurotic and unhappy. It is the issue whether you can recognize this and not allow their decisions to be causes of upset and dictations that powerfully steer your own life into directions you don't like.

 

You have free will and you have all the choice and power to align with your inner truth. You can choose to feel yourself as completely worthy and precious, not any worse nor any better, as anyone else fundamentally is.

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, waterdrop said:

@liminal_luke 

to make it clearer im talking about happiness from meditation practice  from accepting all that comes in life  -  100% happiness 

so in that case of a truly happy person   and enlightened being  -  im asking  why is he doing what he does  - why is he active

 

 

 

For the joy of being alive .  Why be 100% with your new motorcycle .... and never ride it ?   Why have a fantastic GF and  never spend time with her ?  Why have a dog and not pat and play with it ?  Why be 100% happy alive and .... do nothing .  

 

Thiss however does not mean that I dont often slip into the state you   describe , it just isnt permanent , and even when I am in it , I am usually doing something ; appreciating the view , listening and learning about bird calls ... even the cyclic pulse of the crickets and bugs.

 

Maybe it all boils down to what we think the purpose of life is ?   Mine is to enjoy and experience it , to have a good life . 

 

Also, I have written here over the years a few times on this ; I cant see the point of achieving enlightenment  and going off sitting in a cave or a cabin or an apartment  and 'contemplating one's navel .  I am more a proponent of the Sufi approach ; the bricklayer studies Sufism and mysticism , maybe he retires for a while , or does a period in isolation , maybe he becomes enlightened . he doesnt go and do nothing now, just because he is happy and enlightened, what happens is he has become an enlightened brick layer ,  or a master  builder , now his village or city has an enlightened  builder  . . . instead of some ignorant , patch up ,  potentially dangerous and  uninspiring buildings . 

 

 

 

 

 

[ilumairen]

23 hours ago, C T said:

 

Earl Grey quoted my comment, and I found that there was something I wanted to respond to. I don't see why you have an issue with that, and also, what is so bs about replying to someone that I often engage with here? 

 

Perhaps the individual felt a bit like you were talking about them instead of with them. And this (and the contextual assessment of them) was what was found to be bs - not just a simple chatting with another about something as banal as say the weather?

 

 

[ilumairen]

22 hours ago, waterdrop said:

Never was happy in the first place  and now thanks to some replies here   ...  i am much less than what i was 

the question is "if i am "  not  "i am"
 

 

Thanks for clarifying. 

 

Quote

its a question  (a very very common one in buddhist forums btw  - asked again and again in different variations)  many ask it for the theoretical discussion it makes but i ask it to draw conclusions for my life and how to direct  it , since i am planing to up my practice intensity (which is very low atm - which makes me even more sensitive to trolls and rudeness)  -   but again to explain it will be hard for mea  especially when all the trolling going on which just makes me be more defensive and seems like many are looking for some fault so they can neat pick over it especially in threads it seems people are just going with the herd so once some troll like eaerl  diverts the subject  than things go down very fast

about your questions seem ok and in line but i dont think this thread is a place to continue serious discussion at the moment    - so im out

 

I'm glad to see you've made further posts since this one, and decided to stick it out a bit.

 

I'm going to oversimplify this pursuant to the reasons for your inquiry (and hopefully sidestep the theoretical discussion, which imo always seems to miss something). As you've mentioned Buddhist boards here, I'll continue with the idea of buddha nature. 

 

This buddha nature is within you. It is the source of what is referred to as happiness here. And if this is where your interest lies, and you are looking to increase and deepen your personal practice, I would suggest something which serves to connect you with this buddha nature. Then you will find the taste of "happiness" which is non-dependent on external circumstances for yourself, and have a "place to rest" when more unpleasant circumstances arise. 

[C T]

18 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

 

Perhaps the individual felt a bit like you were talking about them instead of with them. And this (and the contextual assessment of them) was what was found to be bs - not just a simple chatting with another about something as banal as say the weather?

 

 

 

My reply to Earl Grey indicated support to the OP, and also indicated that the reason I got interested here is because Im always willing to engage believing those who posed questions are sincere, which I said is what matters most to me. 

 

I'd assume that if the OP understood that straightforward comment, he would not form the idea that I was 'talking about him' but instead would feel heartened and reassured that he was being thought of as sincere. It was a positive assessment that he, being a tad sensitive (by his own admission... to being overly sensitive for reasons known to him), misunderstood. 

 

Anyway, I dont see what the issue is. Sub-conversations and cross references to other commenters within threads happen as a matter of fact. 

 

How should this filler be read? 

Quote

 

not just a simple chatting with another about something as banal as say the weather?

 

 

Did you perhaps think that I might consider you to be overly abrupt had you ended your comment thus: 

Quote

Perhaps the individual felt a bit like you were talking about them instead of with them. And this (and the contextual assessment of them) was what was found to be bs.