skyblue Posted May 22, 2020 I started reading into the Shurangam Sutra a while back and I chanced upon the Buddha's explanation of "True Mind". After reading the same part for a few times, I finally succeeded in experiencing the true mind myself. However, the experience is rather fleeting and many a times after I wake up after sleeping, it completely disappears. Today especially, the Heart Sutra music which I had put on while sleeping keeps playing repeatedly in my false mind when I try to get back into experience. Is there a solution, or is it that my cultivation is too shallow? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
senseless virtue Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) The words "get back into experience" suggest that you might not be having the correct view. The True Mind is not a state that you either get or not. It's just the natural way your mind actually functions. It's very difficult to correctly grasp the True Mind, Shunyata, the natural state of mind, view of ati, etc. on your own through wisdom texts. It's a good to have skepticism about your own insight, but I'm not calling it useless either to investigate. My opinion is that the best way to get into to the True Mind these days is to become familiar with Dzogchen Atiyoga or Trekchö teachings. There are both Bön and Vajrayana teachings on this topic. Edited May 22, 2020 by virtue 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) One relatively simple and accessible approach is derived from the Bön dzogchen teachings that virtue referenced. It is the practice of the 3 Doors as taught by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. I would recommend his book Awakening the Luminous Mind. The first half of the book teaches the 3 Doors practice and the second half focuses on the 5 Line Teaching of Dawa Gyaltsen, an 8th century dzogchen master. Once the True Mind is precisely identified and somewhat stable, the 5 line teaching is a formula to get there from any situation of distraction and disconnection. Sustaining is largely a matter of familiarity. We come back to this Mind over and over again. Best to start with short, high quality sessions then gradually increase the time spent in practice. The time in that state is far less important than the precision. Edited May 22, 2020 by steve 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) The sutra in question is a fairly substantial load to digest, and may not be the ideal guide for the purpose expressed in the OP. This is the general view, and a safe one to offer since you've not (yet) shared any insight into your familiarity with Buddhist teachings. Not that you have to, but at least it'd be helpful to ascertain your understanding as regards the meaning of 'True Mind' vs 'False Mind', specifically in relation to your personal experience of both these minds. Without this information, it may not be helpful to answer your query with any depth. It is quite possible, and fairly common too, that upon reading a sutra or commentary (of a sutra) one may, by sheer chance or karmic resonance, bump into a moment of inexpressible clarity (I like the phrase, "gap between thoughts") - this can happen to practically anyone, and not just in a focussed spiritual cultivation setting. Getting one's finger caught by a closing door can generate a similar fleeting moment of clarity (do not try!!). In fact, any form of sudden immersion in, or absorption of a profound experience that is beyond words and transcends the senses can produce these 'gaps'. Zen masters are well known for creating situations where such moments of awe-inspired speechlessness arise repeatedly for their students. In that instant, its as if the consciousness is suspended in limbo. You'd likely know this if you're familiar with Zen. Practically though, I'm more inclined towards seriously suggesting a deeply penetrative 50/50 Vipassana/Samatha practice route to enable the gradual onset and sustainability of this True Mind you mentioned. Edited May 22, 2020 by C T 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyblue Posted May 23, 2020 9 hours ago, C T said: The sutra in question is a fairly substantial load to digest, and may not be the ideal guide for the purpose expressed in the OP. This is the general view, and a safe one to offer since you've not (yet) shared any insight into your familiarity with Buddhist teachings. Not that you have to, but at least it'd be helpful to ascertain your understanding as regards the meaning of 'True Mind' vs 'False Mind', specifically in relation to your personal experience of both these minds. Without this information, it may not be helpful to answer your query with any depth. It is quite possible, and fairly common too, that upon reading a sutra or commentary (of a sutra) one may, by sheer chance or karmic resonance, bump into a moment of inexpressible clarity (I like the phrase, "gap between thoughts") - this can happen to practically anyone, and not just in a focussed spiritual cultivation setting. Getting one's finger caught by a closing door can generate a similar fleeting moment of clarity (do not try!!). In fact, any form of sudden immersion in, or absorption of a profound experience that is beyond words and transcends the senses can produce these 'gaps'. Zen masters are well known for creating situations where such moments of awe-inspired speechlessness arise repeatedly for their students. In that instant, its as if the consciousness is suspended in limbo. You'd likely know this if you're familiar with Zen. Practically though, I'm more inclined towards seriously suggesting a deeply penetrative 50/50 Vipassana/Samatha practice route to enable the gradual onset and sustainability of this True Mind you mentioned. 10 hours ago, steve said: One relatively simple and accessible approach is derived from the Bön dzogchen teachings that virtue referenced. It is the practice of the 3 Doors as taught by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. I would recommend his book Awakening the Luminous Mind. The first half of the book teaches the 3 Doors practice and the second half focuses on the 5 Line Teaching of Dawa Gyaltsen, an 8th century dzogchen master. Once the True Mind is precisely identified and somewhat stable, the 5 line teaching is a formula to get there from any situation of distraction and disconnection. Sustaining is largely a matter of familiarity. We come back to this Mind over and over again. Best to start with short, high quality sessions then gradually increase the time spent in practice. The time in that state is far less important than the precision. I'm sorry everyone. What I took as my true mind was merely the second stage of Thusness where everything is perceived as I. From what I have read, true mind is far beyond those. So yeah, it was a misconception. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted May 23, 2020 1 hour ago, CataclysmicSky said: I'm sorry everyone. What I took as my true mind was merely the second stage of Thusness where everything is perceived as I. From what I have read, true mind is far beyond those. So yeah, it was a misconception. No apology needed. It may not be entirely correct though to say that True Mind is beyond this or that stage. It may arise at any stage (in my experience, that is). It's vital to know that that which we seek is authentic, and not our subjective idea of what we think is that authentic state. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
