I read The Alchemy of Rainbow Heart Music by Voidisyinyang

[CCD]

Form member Voidisyinyang published an eBook called The Alchemy of Rainbow Heart Music which despite being over 600 pages long & badly written (which he says is because it's written in a "right brain" way) I managed to read all the way through it. Basically nothing mentioned in it seems to have any sort of practical application except there was quite a bit about sitting in the full lotus position for an extended period causing all sorts of funny & very hard to believe things like inducing orgasm in people at a distance. Improving my flexibility (which I admit is lousy to begin with) is something I've been meaning to do for years, because I remember as a kid being pretty close to doing a full split & my lack of flexibility makes me feel old. I plan on practicing improving my flexibility either way, but if I can get & give orgasms out of it, all the better! And if I can prove it's a load of nonsense, that's also good. (admittedly orgasms would be better)

 

I've tried PM'ing void with questions, but he's asking for money. In the book he said that sitting in the full lotus is sort of like completing a circuit with a battery. Obviously just connecting your thighs to the opposite soles of the foot with a length of wire isn't going to do anything, but I was wondering what he'd say to touching feet & thighs with another person to mimic the effect of sitting in full lotus without actually having to do it. I'm not willing to pay him $20 for a long winded "No" reply, so I figured I'd ask if anyone here would be willing to give it a try, as I'm currently not able to do it myself.

 

I tried creating this thread once before, but it wouldn't go through. Then I tried asking about full lotus on a thread made by Voidisyinyang, but it got locked. Hopefully this one will stay up.

[senseless virtue]

5 hours ago, CCD said:

despite being over 600 pages long & badly written (which he says is because it's written in a "right brain" way)

 

Your spider-sense is buzzing wildly in alarm, but your conscious mind is unable to process that you have wasted your reading commitment on complete trite ramblings of a confused person.

 

5 hours ago, CCD said:

I managed to read all the way through it

 

What do you expect now? Personal congratulations or some achievement unlocked so that your computer says a melodic 'ping' and splashes you an image of fancy trophy?

 

5 hours ago, CCD said:

Basically nothing mentioned in it seems to have any sort of practical application

 

You should be thankful that there aren't any sufficiently practical instructions for messing yourself with flawed practice.

 

5 hours ago, CCD said:

causing all sorts of funny & very hard to believe things like inducing orgasm in people at a distance.

 

How funny would you find it if some creepy guy at McDonald's started giving you O@Ds without asking your consent or having much control over his so-called ability? #metoo

 

5 hours ago, CCD said:

if I can get & give orgasms out of it, all the better! And if I can prove it's a load of nonsense, that's also good. (admittedly orgasms would be better)

 

How about connecting with live human beings in the traditional manner and having consensual and grounding sexual fun instead of seeking to distort spiritual teachings into stupid sexual tricks?

 

In general, compensating the lack of sexual activity and mundane happiness with spiritual bliss seeking is a recipe for disaster.

 

5 hours ago, CCD said:

I figured I'd ask if anyone here would be willing to give it a try

 

Haha, you are pretty funny how you tried grooming and prepping the Bums with your talk. No chance.

 

5 hours ago, CCD said:

I'm currently not able to do it myself.

 

You should consider yourself lucky. You currently are very fortunate indeed!

[C T]

@virtue Well said, but be sure it wont be as well received as it should. 

[senseless virtue]

@C T Are you saying that I should have enveloped my message in an O@D instead to make it effective learning?

 

Anyway, OP probably has his/her mind set about this matter already and I'm not seeking to change it. My cautionary remarks were more meant to the casual readers who browse this topic by chance. I hope you all ample wisdom and discernment.

[SirPalomides]

I’m really confused. You know the guy is a huckster and, worst of all, a bad writer, yet you still think he may be on to something, to the extent that your read his 600 page book? Don’t you think there are better things to do with your time? With all the teachings and advice out there, some good, some bad, much available for free , why fixate on this one?

[senseless virtue]

On 5/30/2020 at 2:51 PM, SirPalomides said:

I’m really confused. You know the guy is a huckster and, worst of all, a bad writer, yet you still think he may be on to something, to the extent that your read his 600 page book? Don’t you think there are better things to do with your time? With all the teachings and advice out there, some good, some bad, much available for free , why fixate on this one?

 

That's a good question. What drives people to experiment with their health and sanity?

Edited December 5, 2023 by senseless virtue

[Apech]

Even when I was young and flexible I never managed full lotus - I later found out through an X-ray for back pain that my L4and L5 are fused together (from birth) - which probably explains why. I think that it is advantageous if you can do it - certainly Buddhist tantra recommends having your knees below the level of the LDT.  This is to align the nadis and so on so you don't get problems arising from poor posture.  But not essential, half lotus, or chair sitting is ok - but cross legged with your knees next to your ears is not ok.

 

The Orgasm at a Distance thing is a bit controversial (there are a few threads on it) - my personal view is that while it is possible it should not be a goal - it might happen spontaneously but should be let go of immediately - especially if it is occurring with random people including underage girls (as in the case of Voidisyinyang) - not only is it unethical but also the subtle bodies of such beings are undeveloped/very mutable and should not be interfered with.

 

There is a heart centre 'orgasm' which occurs which is more or less benign and more loving than sexual - it has to do with joy and wonder and wishing the best for everyone and world.  This is free from the desire/lust or power control which impacts sexual feelings normally.  Sex is a natural energy closest to spirituality - nothing wrong with it of course - but be careful its very powerful and can distort you.

 

 

[forestofclarity]

Have you considered whether the person you are taking as your spiritual teacher (in whatever form) may have some issues of his own, possibly including some mental illness?  I'm not saying that he is or isn't---- I don't know him and I am not a doctor. But having spent a lot of time around mentally ill people, his posts parallel the thinking that I've heard from mentally ill people (a generalized lack of stability, a tendency to meander, making wild connections). 

 

15 hours ago, CCD said:

I tried creating this thread once before, but it wouldn't go through. Then I tried asking about full lotus on a thread made by Voidisyinyang, but it got locked. Hopefully this one will stay up.

 

I think you made some great points, but I have found that people tend to enjoy sarcasm and cutting wit less upon hearing it than they do upon saying it. 

 

5 hours ago, virtue said:

@C T Are you saying that I should have enveloped my message in an O@D instead to make it effective learning?

 

Anyway, OP probably has his/her mind set about this matter already and I'm not seeking to change it. My cautionary remarks were more meant to the casual readers who browse this topic by chance. I hope you all ample wisdom and discernment.

 

[CCD]

1 hour ago, SirPalomides said:

I’m really confused. You know the guy is a huckster and, worst of all, a bad writer, yet you still think he may be on to something, to the extent that your read his 600 page book? Don’t you think there are better things to do with your time? With all the teachings and advice out there, some good, some bad, much available for free , why fixate on this one?

I like how you think being a bad writer is worse than being a huckster. That's pretty funny.

 

As for why I'm fixated on this one, that's a good question. I don't know why. Probably because it sounds so easy to test in theory, but hard in practice. I've seen contortionists do crazy things like cramming themselves into small boxes with very awkward looking poses, or practically tie themselves up like a pretzel. Just being flexible shouldn't make someone some kind of zen master, so if the position can be maintained for a long time without discomfort, & doesn't result in a bunch of magical-sounding junk like remote orgasms, then it's debunked. If a contortionist really couldn't maintain a pose like that because it pinches the sciatic nerve (or whatever it is) despite being able to tie themselves up in a pretzel, then there might be something to it. The hard part is finding someone flexible enough.

 

And as I said before, I'm looking to improve my own flexibility (which will take forever) but otherwise don't have any interest in, or flat-out disagree with a lot of what he says in the book. So if I can sit in the full lotus for a few hours while drinking an ice cold diet pepsi & enjoying some cheese fries, then I've accomplished my goal. If I can sit in the full lotus for a few hours after a few lifestyle adjustment, & prove to myself that such a thing as the O-at-a-D is even possible & worth studying, then I've accomplished my goal. It's win-win.

[CCD]

10 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

Have you considered whether the person you are taking as your spiritual teacher (in whatever form) may have some issues of his own, possibly including some mental illness?

I don't have one myself, but Void's book reads like he's a schizophrenic.

[Cheshire Cat]

I can sit in full lotus for hours and I can tell you that it's just a comfortable posture for meditation.

It allows you to sit on a hard surface for a long period of time without pain. It's a fundamental skill if you are a buddhist wandering ascetic who has taken the vow not to buy a cushion. 

 

 

[ilumairen]

1 hour ago, CCD said:

I like how you think being a bad writer is worse than being a huckster. That's pretty funny.

 

I am pretty sure he was referring to your recognition of bad writing, and continued investment of your own time to the tune of 600 pages. If you were to suspect someone were a huckster, but the material was still well written, engaging, and had some merit on it’s own regardless of any hucksterism this would be one thing. But to invest valuable time in suspected hucksterism which is poorly written is another matter entirely.

 

1 hour ago, CCD said:

And as I said before, I'm looking to improve my own flexibility (which will take forever) but otherwise don't have any interest in, or flat-out disagree with a lot of what he says in the book. So if I can sit in the full lotus for a few hours while drinking an ice cold diet pepsi & enjoying some cheese fries, then I've accomplished my goal. If I can sit in the full lotus for a few hours after a few lifestyle adjustment, & prove to myself that such a thing as the O-at-a-D is even possible & worth studying, then I've accomplished my goal. It's win-win.

Improving one’s own flexibility seems a well grounded goal with some health benefit. 
 

Wanting to achieve the “o @ d” touted by someone who you flat out disagree with on many aspects of what they’ve presented has the ring of wizard’s first rule to me. 
 

And I will again take this opportunity to state, given what little was shared regarding the supposed “o @ d’s” I have very little reason to suspect I would be wrong to assert he misread and misinterpreted the experience of the young females involved. Nothing he wrote indicates orgasmic bliss to me. 

[senseless virtue]

2 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

I have found that people tend to enjoy sarcasm and cutting wit less upon hearing it than they do upon saying it. 

 

I find that these days people too easily attribute all kinds of ridicule as sarcasm. Getting under someone's skin is where the vitriol of sarcasm takes place. There hardly was anything insulting, contemptuous, or bad faith characteristic of sarcasm in anything I wrote so far.

 

Personally, I would see the edginess of my occasional humor more confrontational than cutting; at least I sincerely try to have that effect.

 

I understand if you found my third post here very hyperbolic and stylistically offensive, but you have to take into account that Voidisyinyang's biography in itself is so far out and begging of disbelief that sometimes I just wonder how it can actually be real and not originating in some creepy Internet meme. Yet, it certainly reflects how many people get into meditation for wrong reasons and get attached to warped side effects.

Edited May 30, 2020 by virtue

[ralis]

9 minutes ago, virtue said:

 

I find that these days people too easily attribute all kinds of ridicule as sarcasm. Getting under someone's skin is where the vitriol of sarcasm takes place. There hardly was anything insulting, contemptuous, or bad faith characteristic of sarcasm in anything I wrote so far.

 

Personally, I would see the edginess of my occasional humor more confrontational than cutting; at least I sincerely try to have that effect.

 

I understand if you found my third post here very hyperbolic and stylistically offensive, but you have to take into account that Voidisyinyang's biography in itself is so far out and begging of disbelief that sometimes I just wonder how it can actually be real and not originating in some creepy Internet meme. Yet, it certainly reflects how many people get into meditation for wrong reasons and get attached to warped side effects.

 

 

I asked him on several occasions to explain his music theory by citing practical examples. Not once did he cite examples, but instead he would ramble on about Quantum Mechanics and how his theories were the basis of some grand unified theory that only he and a few others comprehend. 

 

I guess I had better discipline myself and master full lotus. 

[ralis]

My concerns about full lotus is the possibility of developing blood clots and joint problems which can result from long term holding that position.

[doc benway]

18 hours ago, CCD said:

Form member Voidisyinyang published an eBook called The Alchemy of Rainbow Heart Music which despite being over 600 pages long & badly written (which he says is because it's written in a "right brain" way) I managed to read all the way through it. Basically nothing mentioned in it seems to have any sort of practical application except there was quite a bit about sitting in the full lotus position for an extended period causing all sorts of funny & very hard to believe things like inducing orgasm in people at a distance. Improving my flexibility (which I admit is lousy to begin with) is something I've been meaning to do for years, because I remember as a kid being pretty close to doing a full split & my lack of flexibility makes me feel old. I plan on practicing improving my flexibility either way, but if I can get & give orgasms out of it, all the better! And if I can prove it's a load of nonsense, that's also good. (admittedly orgasms would be better)

 

I've tried PM'ing void with questions, but he's asking for money. In the book he said that sitting in the full lotus is sort of like completing a circuit with a battery. Obviously just connecting your thighs to the opposite soles of the foot with a length of wire isn't going to do anything, but I was wondering what he'd say to touching feet & thighs with another person to mimic the effect of sitting in full lotus without actually having to do it. I'm not willing to pay him $20 for a long winded "No" reply, so I figured I'd ask if anyone here would be willing to give it a try, as I'm currently not able to do it myself.

 

I tried creating this thread once before, but it wouldn't go through. Then I tried asking about full lotus on a thread made by Voidisyinyang, but it got locked. Hopefully this one will stay up.

 

Like others, I would recommend avoiding the flights of intellectual fantasy Drew indulges himself in but that is your choice.

I've had training by lineage masters in Daoism and Bön Buddhism and no one has ever emphasized the need for full lotus. 

There are important points of posture during seated meditation but the specific position of the legs, other than crossed in some way, does not seem to be critical. 

That said, here is an excellent program of stretching to guide you to full lotus posture:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25711032-becoming-the-lotus

[forestofclarity]

I wouldn't say any post is necessarily offensive, but some are more likely to produce offense or negative feelings in others. Personally, I think confrontation, as a spiritual tactic, works with people who know each other and have some trust established. Online, I see it just produces arguments, bad feelings, etc. Which is not to say that I'm somehow above it all by any means.

 

Sometimes when people say outlandish things, they want attention, praise, honor, etc. I don't think that is the case here. I think there is a likelihood that he is suffering from a physiologically based mental illness. It is not uncommon in real life spiritual circles, and I imagine is even more prevalent online. And of course, spiritual practice itself can be quite destabilizing. People can approach it differently--- some will agree potentially reinforcing the delusions. Others may be polite, pretending what is being said doesn't sound like mental illness. Others may deride, which may not be the best strategy in such cases. No solutions here, just a different view. 

 

27 minutes ago, virtue said:

I understand if you found my third post here very hyperbolic and stylistically offensive, but you have to take into account that Voidisyinyang's biography in itself is so far out and begging of disbelief that sometimes I just wonder how it can actually be real and not originating in some creepy Internet meme. Yet, it certainly reflects how many people get into meditation for wrong reasons and get attached to warped side effects.

 

[silent thunder]

edited for contentment.

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by silent thunder

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

I can sit in full lotus for hours and I can tell you that it's just a comfortable posture for meditation.

It allows you to sit on a hard surface for a long period of time without pain. It's a fundamental skill if you are a buddhist wandering ascetic who has taken the vow not to buy a cushion. 

 

 

 

As a counterpoint, there are a a number of very high level masters, Wang li ping, Chun Yi lin, Yuanming Zhang,.... and a few others that speak very highly of full lotus and even the necessity of it in later degrees of cultivation.

 

There are other masters that have similar opinions above.

[JohnC]

19 hours ago, CCD said:

Form member Voidisyinyang published an eBook called The Alchemy of Rainbow Heart Music which despite being over 600 pages long & badly written (which he says is because it's written in a "right brain" way) I managed to read all the way through it. Basically nothing mentioned in it seems to have any sort of practical application except there was quite a bit about sitting in the full lotus position for an extended period causing all sorts of funny & very hard to believe things like inducing orgasm in people at a distance. Improving my flexibility (which I admit is lousy to begin with) is something I've been meaning to do for years, because I remember as a kid being pretty close to doing a full split & my lack of flexibility makes me feel old. I plan on practicing improving my flexibility either way, but if I can get & give orgasms out of it, all the better! And if I can prove it's a load of nonsense, that's also good. (admittedly orgasms would be better)

 

I've tried PM'ing void with questions, but he's asking for money. In the book he said that sitting in the full lotus is sort of like completing a circuit with a battery. Obviously just connecting your thighs to the opposite soles of the foot with a length of wire isn't going to do anything, but I was wondering what he'd say to touching feet & thighs with another person to mimic the effect of sitting in full lotus without actually having to do it. I'm not willing to pay him $20 for a long winded "No" reply, so I figured I'd ask if anyone here would be willing to give it a try, as I'm currently not able to do it myself.

 

I tried creating this thread once before, but it wouldn't go through. Then I tried asking about full lotus on a thread made by Voidisyinyang, but it got locked. Hopefully this one will stay up.

 

For full lotus, you have to get into it. I wouldn't attempt to 'hack it', by using wires or other people. From my understanding, it is more about opening up the lower energy point in your spine in the lumbar region, which starts to open up the whole body in flexibility. Master Chun Yi Lin speaks on this.

In the l4, l5 region? You would have to ask Master Lin about it, and he is somewhat accessible on his website or for healings, etc.

 

Generally the masters that I know of that proclaim it's benefits tend to also be focused on the small universe/MCO as the primary engine of cultivation.

I speculate that may be why. Further speculate that they are attempting to be as efficient as possible in energy cultivation as they are doing internal refinement rather than external.... input? At least initially.

 

The systems that I've seen that that are in that direction, tend to have you refine your body till your able to access the abundance of original/yuan qi all around us to bring in and start facilitating your cultivation. Basically do wei gong till you open up to a degree and have cultivated some dan, into MCO till you can pore breath.

 

Later stages, I've heard of collecting seeds of qi from different power spots... but this starts to be beyond my current energetic pay grade.

 

Best of luck,

John

[C T]

Padmasana (Lotus pose) is an austere yogic pose that integrates other aspects of meditative praxis to woo certain specific outcomes at 3 levels - the outer level settles the nerves; the inner level aims to awaken subtle energies; the secret level, once mastered, leads to mental quiescence. None of this falls within the intent of the OP, or if it did, it wasn't at all apparent. Without the important caveats, offering advice that supports his wishes to learn FL is, imo, not helpful. The OP's intention has been made clear - its not for progressing any spiritual or ascetic objective. He seems fascinated by something coarser, whimsical and floaty, whereas proper lotus, be it full or semi, is meant to refine, demands commitment to practice, and enables grounded practitioners to further root themselves in detachment from mundane concerns while simultaneously mastering their base desires. There is no other worthwhile significance for taking up this practice.

 

Many Asians are able to sit FL comfortably due to a genetic gift that also lets them squat with knees flushed against the chest, comfortably, without losing balance. It doesn't mean anything in itself other than affording them extra toilet time without getting pins and needles in the legs. 

 

 

 

[manitou]

I don't know about the veracity of his lotus claims, but I do know that I gave him $20 just to see what it was all about.  It wasn't specifically to do a lotus posture, but he referred to it as a reading.

 

I emailed him a photo of a drawing I did, shortly after my husband Joe died.  The drawings I do start with an eyes-closed squiggle, and then my right brain takes over from there.  He did come up with the feeling of death in the drawing.  There were many more specific things in the drawing that he didn't pick up on, but those things were so specific to Joe and I, that I wouldn't expect anyone to catch it.

 

He was also very nice to deal with, and he took the task very seriously, contacting me several times while he considered the drawing.  His reading wasn't awesomely impressive, but on the other hand he did pick up some things.  He said he had never done that kind of a reading with a drawing.

 

I was just curious.  At the very least, he will take you very seriously as he's doing it.

[Zork]

20 hours ago, CCD said:

Form member Voidisyinyang published an eBook called The Alchemy of Rainbow Heart Music which despite being over 600 pages long & badly written (which he says is because it's written in a "right brain" way) I managed to read all the way through it.

Give this man a cookie!

Now seriously, why on earth did you spend so much time reading this nonsense?

I mean there are many books on cultivation worth your time and not expensive. Why not read one of those?

[Cheshire Cat]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

 

As a counterpoint, there are a a number of very high level masters, Wang li ping, Chun Yi lin, Yuanming Zhang,.... and a few others that speak very highly of full lotus and even the necessity of it in later degrees of cultivation.

 

There are other masters that have similar opinions above.

 

It gladdens me to know that I have a skill of which some teachers speak very highly. If I were prone to superstitious ideas, I could even dare to follow such teachers. 

 

But we are who we are. Nothing special. 

[Nungali]

On 30/05/2020 at 7:55 AM, CCD said:

... was wondering what he'd say to touching feet & thighs with another person to mimic the effect of sitting in full lotus without actually having to do it. ...

 

Now he is on to something ! 

 

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boko-maru

 

 

[  "  What I had seen, of course, was the Bokononist ritual of boko-maru, or the mingling of awarenesses.

We Bokononists believe that it is impossible to be sole-to-sole with another person without loving the person, provided the feet of both persons are clean and nicely tended. " ]