Mental Rituals

[Mithras]

Quote

Some sources (All from Vasistha's Yoga):

Excerpt from the Story of Dasura
"He had been accustomed to the ritualistic performances
enjoined in the Vedas, and so he engaged himself in their performance, but
this time mentally. Yet, such is the power of such mental performance, it
purified the sage’s mind and his heart, and he attained pure wisdom."

Excerpt from the Story of Ahalya
"It was also demonstrated by the sage who wished to
perform a religious rite, but fell into a blind well while collecting the
materials for it; he performed the rite mentally and derived the fruit of
actual physical performance of the rite."

Story of the Sons of Indu

III:86 THE SUN said: (narrating the story to Brahma to the creator):

O Lord of lords, near the holy mountain in a place known as Suvarnajata, your sons had established a colony. In that place there was a holy man known as Indu, a descendant of the sage . He and his wife enjoyed every blessing except an offspring. In order to obtain this blessing they went to and engaged themselves in severe penance, living only on a very small quantity of water. They had resorted to the state of trees and stood unmoving.

Lord Siva was pleased with their penance and, appearing before them, asked them to choose a boon from him. They prayed that they might beget ten worthy sons who would be devoted to God and righteousness. Lord Siva granted the boon.

Very soon after this, the holy man’s wife gave birth to ten brilliant and radiant sons. These boys grew up into young men; they had mastered all the scriptures even when they were barely seven years of age. After a considerable time, their parents abandoned their bodies and became liberated. The ten young men were sorely distressed at the loss of their parents.

One day they got together and asked themselves: “O brothers, what is the most desirable goal here, which is proper for us to aspire to and which will not lead to unhappiness? To be a king, to be an emperor, even to be Indra the god of heaven—all these are trivial, since even Indra rules heaven just for an hour and a half of the Creator’s life-span. Ah, therefore, the attainment of creatorship is the best for us because of all lordships it alone will not come to an end for a whole epoch.”

All the others heartily agreed with this statement. They said to themselves: “Well then, we should soon reach brahma-hood which is devoid of old age and death.”

The eldest brother said: “Please do as I tell you to do. From now on
contemplate as follows, ‘I am , Brahma, seated on a full-blown lotus’.”
All the brothers thereupon began to meditate in the following manner: “I am Brahma, the creator of the universe. The sages as also the goddess of wisdom are within me in their personal forms. Heaven is within me, with all the celestials. Mountains, continents and oceans are within me. Demi-gods and demons are within me. The sun shines within me. Now the creation takes place. Now the creation exists. Now is the time for the dissolution. An epoch is over. The night of is at hand. I have self-knowledge and I am liberated.”

 

Meditating thus with all their being, they became that.

THE SUN continued: III:87, 88
Lord, after that, still deeply contemplating on their intention to be the creators of the universe, the ten holy men stood in contemplation.
 

Their bodies had withered away and whatever was left was consumed by wild beasts. But they continued to stand there in their disembodied state, for a long long time . . . till an epoch came to a close and there was the great scorching heat of the sun and the terrible cloud-burst which destroyed everything. The holy men still continued to stand in their disembodied state, with the sole intention of becoming the creators of the universe.

At the dawn of a new creation, these men continued to stand in the same place and in the same manner and with the same intention. They became the creators. They were the ten creators whom you saw; and you saw their universes, too. Lord, I am one of the suns that shine in the universes thus created by them.

 

 

This idea of "mental rituals" that is mentioned in Vasistha's Yoga, which I'm sure are also mentioned in other scriptures as well.  It can be boiled down to: Mental actions leading to physical boons. One of my ideas as to why this works (from a mainly vedantic perspective) is that this world is an illusion created by mental modifications/mind. So our day to day lives vs performing an action in our heads is no different. We just have to believe it.

Fun fact: It's scientifically proven that practicing a sport in your head actually makes you better at it; whether that be shooting hoops in your head or archery.

I found myself particularly fascinated by this idea as my current meditation is a ritual as well, I just didn't really know about it that way till now.

Effectively my practice (dazzling white skeleton) involves offering up ones flesh to demons or other entities(the ritual aspect) and then meditating on whats left: a clean white skeleton. Hence one of the meditation's selling points is that it gets rid of Karma and allows one to detach from the body, along with some other boons. Now if I were to perform a hardcore religious ritual, offering one's flesh up is as metal as it gets, so yeah haha.

 

This is generally a cool topic, what do you guys think? Where else have you guys seen this phenomenon of mental rituals? Have you had any experience of performing rituals mentally? Meditations as well that reflect this concept?
 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Mithras

[Nungali]

Its a significance aspect of western rituals as well .    Some refer to it as 'astral' 'doing a ritual in or on the astral' , but they are really 'mentalising' it  IME .  Its also good for practice and learning , if you have to perform a part in a ritual .  I used to do dawn meditation while riding my motorcycle to work , imagining / visualising myself doing the body postures and actions .

 

In some cases , where physical ritual is required , only ever  doing it mentally  might not be enough .  Ideally one would be involved mentally, physically emotionally and spiritually  .... 'enflamed' .  On the other hand , some ritual is perhaps only ever meant to be performed 'mentally'  , or partially mentally  ; eg,   one can  visualise offerings in the graveyard , or one can go to the graveyard and visualise .

 

 

[Mithras]

Huh that’s pretty cool. I really like this point:

 

Quote

Ideally one would be involved mentally, physically emotionally and spiritually  .... 'enflamed'

 

So here’s another general question: if one performed a mental ritual and they were all those things(quote mentioned above) in the ritual; and they were really into it/believed that it would net results: would he be able to yield results for most typically physical rituals?

 

[Mithras]

And speaking of which here’s another story regarding this matter:

 

Quote

A long time ago, the sage Bhrgu was performing intense penance on the peak of a mountain. His son Sukra was a young man at that time. While the father sat motionless in meditation, the young son attended to the father’s needs. One day, this young man beheld in the sky a beautiful flying nymph. His mind was disturbed with desire for her;so was her own mind disturbed when she saw the radiant young 

Intensely overcome by desire for the nymph,  Sukra closed his eyes and (mentally) pursued her. He reached heaven.There he saw the radiant celestial beings, gods and their consorts, the celestial elephant and horses. He saw the

creator  himself as also the other deities who govern this universe. He saw the siddhas (perfected beings). He listened to celestial music. He visited the celestial gardens in heaven. Finally, he saw the king of heaven, Indra himself, seated in all his majesty, waited upon by incomparably beautiful nymphs. He saluted Indra. Indra, too, got up from his throne and greeted the young sage  and begged him to stay in heaven for a long time. Sukra also consented to do so.

 

Sukra had completely forgotten his previous identity. After spending some time in the court of Indra,  Sukra roamed the heaven and soon discovered the whereabouts of the nymph he had seen. When they looked at each other they were overcome by desire for each other, for wish-fulfilment is the characteristic of heaven.

 wished for the darkness of night to envelop the pleasure-garden where he met the nymph. So it was dark.  then entered the beautiful rest house in that garden: the nymph 

followed. She pleaded, “Great one, I am tormented by desire for you. Only the dull-witted deride love, not the wise ones. Even the lordship of the three worlds is nothing compared to the delight of the company of the loved one.Hence, pray, give me shelter in your heart.” Saying so, she collapsed on his chest.

 Sukra spent a very long time with that nymph, roaming at will in heaven.He lived with that nymph for a period equal to eight world-cycles.

After this length of time, as if his merit had been exhausted,  fell from heaven, along with that nymph.When their subtle bodies fell on earth, they became dew-drops which entered foodgrains which were eaten by a holy brahmana, from whom his wife received their essence.  Sukra became their son. He grew up there. The nymph had become a female deer, and  begot through her a human child. He became greatly attached to this son. Worries and anxieties caused by this child soon aged , and he died longing for pleasures.

On account of this, Sukra became the ruler of a kingdom in the next birth and he died to that embodiment longing for a life of austerity and holiness. In the next birth he became a holy man. Thus, after passing from one embodiment to another and enduring all manner of destinies  Sukra practised intense austerity, standing firm on the bank of a river.

Thus contemplating while seated in front of his father, Sukra spent a long time. His body had become extremely emaciated. In the meantime the restless mind created scene after scene of successive life-spans, birth and death, ascent to heaven and descent to earth and the peaceful life of a hermit. He was so immersed in these that he regarded them as the truth. The body had been reduced to skin and bone, for it had been assailed by the inclemencies of every type of weather. It appeared terribly frightening even to look at. Yet, it was not consumed by carnivorous beasts, as it stood right in front of Bhrgu the sage  who was engaged in deep meditation, and as  himself had endowed it with psychic strength through the practice of yogic discipline.

this story is mainly about how Samsara can be created anywhere really, but it’s also a story regarding this very topic: the power of the mind.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Mithras

[thelerner]

On 5/30/2020 at 9:13 PM, Mithras said:

Effectively my practice (dazzling white skeleton) involves offering up ones flesh to demons or other entities(the ritual aspect) and then meditating on whats left: a clean white skeleton. Hence one of the meditation's selling points is that it gets rid of Karma and allows one to detach from the body, along with some other boons. Now if I were to perform a hardcore religious ritual, offering one's flesh up is as metal as it gets, so yeah haha.

 

This is generally a cool topic, what do you guys think? Where else have you guys seen this phenomenon of mental rituals? Have you had any experience of performing rituals mentally? Meditations as well that reflect this concept?
 

That reminds me of Tibetan 'Chod' meditation.  Where you offer up your body to a demon to help it and rid yourself of some karma.  I've got a guided meditation and it always feel to me like an extreme version of a metta meditation.  So loving you even sacrifice for a demon.

 

Here's one I've used.  I think it starts about 8:30 minutes into it

 

[Mithras]

This is cool. I'm still watching through it but it does relate to my own practice a lot. I used to ignore the giving up the body part a lot with instant dissolution. Now I use my body parts to make a nice feast. Hair chopped into rice or noodles, blood made into wine,  impurities into a sauce, etc. It's very grotesque but definitely effective for noticing the impurity of body. A very noticeable effect is that the ails of the body no longer seem like mine. Furthermore, I make each of the sense organs a "prize entree". Definitely helps a lot with changing the hateful relationship towards the body and mind that tends to get developed by newcomers, me included. Then once the feasting table is prepared I let whatever demons or beings that wish to feast, feast; and I serve as a guest for a while. Pretty quickly the food is all gone and then I focus on what's left of me: The skeleton. I usually undertake this part by adding each bone one at a time till the entire skeleton is there and meditate on the full image of the skeleton for however long I feel. Sometimes I just create the skeleton in my head instantly though.

It should be kept in mind that most/all of this is mentally created. Even the demons and so on are created by my imagination, however at a certain point its my mind can be partitioned and create a living object through imagination, so while it does take some thought on my part, it start's doing actions that 'I' don't really control. I suppose it's something I'm just starting to use.

My further understanding on this subject is that we don't really need physical interactions to approach these issues or problems. We can approach them right now in our minds, and get very real satisfaction/emotional benefit from it. This idea of mental rituals takes that one step further and says you can approach things in your mind, and get very real physical benefit from it. And in a way, we already see that with practiced meditation. It's also an idea that's prevalent in new age stuff like law of attraction; were they tend to decide things without the physical worlds input or reasoning. Though I find that it's not so much a law but a benefit we realize when we understand that the mental world and the physical world/all further divisions are no different from each other. Yet we are the ones that perceive that difference.

Here's a quote from the story of Lila, entailing her penance:

 

Quote

Thus resolved, Lila began to propitiate the goddess immediately,
without even discussing this project with her husband. Once in three nights
she used to eat, after devoutly worshipping the Lord, holy ones, the
preceptor, the learned ones and the sages. She was utterly convinced that
this penance would prove fruitful, and this conviction greatly strengthened
her application to the penance undertaken. Though she did not reveal her
intention to the king, she did not let her service to her husband suffer in the
very least on account of this penance. After one hundred such three-nightly
worship, the goddess Sarasvati appeared before her and granted her the
boons of her choice. Lila prayed: “O Divine mother, grant me two boons: (l)

when my husband departs from his body, let his remain in the palace,
and (2) whenever I pray to you, let me see you.” Sarasvati granted these two
boons and disappeared.

keywords being: "She was utterly convinced that this penance would prove fruitful"

Reminds me of a line from an article:
 

Quote

“O ye of little faith, if you have a modicum of faith the size of a mustard seed, tell the mountain to move and it shall move.” This is a passage from the New Testament. But a mustard seed of faith is not there, so why will it move? If you are already certain that it cannot move, what is the use of telling it to move?

Though faith without wisdom has the possibility to delve into insanity; so there's a rather subtle line where one gives so much power to their mind and faith that they end up letting themselves derive unintended negative consequences. It's kind of like how in the days of old, someone would curse someone else with some meaningful premise and then that curse would seem to manifest. Now and days that doesn't happen so much, someone road rages and say that you'll die a horrible death and you're like "No I probably won't"

Edited June 1, 2020 by Mithras

[dwai]

This is a great topic for discussion.  

My master tells me wrt. being able to apply spiritual power in the world, "You have to believe 100%. Even if you believe 99% and 1% doubt remains, it will not work."

I found that to be the case in my own experience as well, doubts block our abilities -- no matter what field it is. It will even block our own intelligence (which is a spiritual power too). 

 

[dwai]

1 hour ago, Mithras said:

And speaking of which here’s another story regarding this matter:

 

this story is mainly about how Samsara can be created anywhere really, but it’s also a story regarding this very topic: the power of the mind.

It also shows how reincarnation and karma work together  

[Mithras]

44 minutes ago, dwai said:

This is a great topic for discussion.  

My master tells me wrt. being able to apply spiritual power in the world, "You have to believe 100%. Even if you believe 99% and 1% doubt remains, it will not work."

I found that to be the case in my own experience as well, doubts block our abilities -- no matter what field it is. It will even block our own intelligence (which is a spiritual power too). 

 

Yep found this to be the case with my own applications as well. I'm applying this concept real time to a lot of things with life. Suddenly, things tend to be a lot luckier; found a job without much effort at all simply because I didn't worry about it and believed that it would happen, meanwhile my older brother who is more qualified than me can't get one even after applying to a few everyday. Positive reinforcement is the email's back and forth, positive feedback as employers review your application, etc. Then that start's getting rid of the rest of the doubts that you needed to do more to get a job.

In the topic of mental rituals, this idea of feedback loop also applies. Say I perform a ritual in my mind, do a long penance, or speak a mantra for a while. In all those cases, you may want to gain guidance from a deity; and in all those cases the best thing to do is to keep faith. Looking for the things that reinforce your belief instead of what counteracts it, furthermore the things that counteract it could be made into reinforcements. Keep this up, and chances are you'll meet that deity. The reason why it may take some years of mantras, or penance is that the feedback loop (faith/belief) works both ways. We may believe that we are this pitiful mortal so therefore we must show great effort to meet a deity, and we may have also heard of our associates who spoke a mantra constantly for 10 years to meet them. So in reality, its all a matter of what we let happen; looking deeper into the phrase "What do I let happen?" and you'll have something to contemplate on for a while.

[Mithras]

There's a lot of no doubt actions that we do in the physical world. For example moving a chair. I experienced it, I felt the chair, the strain, and now I see that it's somewhere else. 
 

There are still laws of nature though: chakra's, chi channels, gravity, etc. And furthermore elements like people becoming aware of things they had nothing to do with; for example that chair I moved is suddenly gone because someone else moved it.

imo these are just as changeable as small things like perspective, physical routines, etc. My perspective on why that is so delves from the topic at hand though so I'll leave it aside.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Mithras

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Mithras said:

Huh that’s pretty cool. I really like this point:

 

 

So here’s another general question: if one performed a mental ritual and they were all those things(quote mentioned above) in the ritual; and they were really into it/believed that it would net results: would he be able to yield results for most typically physical rituals?

 

 

 

My brain might be foggy or you might have worded your question unusually ?    The first part ;

 

"if one performed a mental ritual and they were all those things(quote mentioned above) "   -  if it was just a mental ritual then it would not be physical .  Any physical ritual would ( or should) have its mental component .  A mental ritual with a physical  component IS a physical ritual .   or you could do partial , as I explained above , in the graveyard  ... ie. part f the physical requirements and the rest mentally .

 

The 2nd part , if I am reading it right ,  Working on those all 4 levels will increase chance of success.

 

(If I read you wrong, sorry ; maybe rephrase the question . )

 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Mithras said:

 

Yep found this to be the case with my own applications as well. I'm applying this concept real time to a lot of things with life. Suddenly, things tend to be a lot luckier; found a job without much effort at all simply because I didn't worry about it and believed that it would happen, meanwhile my older brother who is more qualified than me can't get one even after applying to a few everyday. Positive reinforcement is the email's back and forth, positive feedback as employers review your application, etc. Then that start's getting rid of the rest of the doubts that you needed to do more to get a job.

 

Ha Har !   Thats it !   Occasionally someone will scoff at me or my practice  and "  What makes you thnk that stuff will ever work ?"

 

 Ever ?   Its been working for years !   They want the proof , and I laugh becasue at other times such people might ask me , incredulously ; " How come you are so lucky ... how on earth did you get that  .... where is all the money coming from ... wow ! you live in an amazing place / location / house .... how come you got 3 GFs and they dont seem to mind ... how do you get away with that .....  how come dogs act that way when you around , how did you just go and pick up that snake  ...  etc etc

 

But 'magic ' ... nah!   Thats a load of crap .  Oh well   ..... we  know , so no need to prove anything .

 

A word about chod and white skeleton . I did my own ( first time ) 'dissolution man y years back and used the meditation of 'corpse eaten by dogs ... but visualised my corpse. That wasn't effective enough so I changed the visualisation to something I was more familiar with ; I was working in a hospital at the time as an orderly, and a few times I had to assist in an autopsy . So  ( after preparation, meditation, some yoga and breathwork I took 250 mg of pure white LSD and visualised going to my own autopsy .

 

Spoiler

During the process, the  doctor there used to cut across the top of forehead and down side of face  and pull the face down from the top ... he was rather rough at that . When that part came ( with the 'particular noise it makes ) and I saw my  the inside of my own face and the  structure left behind on the skull .....  blooop !  ...  straight out my body through the top of my head ! 

 

Intense !

 

The offering up of the body part , in my  tradition now ( Aboriginal shamanism ) has  become a type of ecstasy when I meditate on it ;

 

my body will go back to earth ( Uncle Bill ;  ' When I die, I go back to earth , like rock or tree , I will become the land " .  Everything I have built up in my body from taking from the earth , I will give back to it and feed it  ... and become the earth .  'Mum'  (  a highly personified / guardian  / aspect of 'nature' ) has given me all I asked for  in my life , so when I die, I give her all I am . I'm good with that .

 

 

" I love it tree because e love me too.

E watching me same as you."

-    Bill Neidjje

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Mithras said:

In the topic of mental rituals, this idea of feedback loop also applies. Say I perform a ritual in my mind, do a long penance, or speak a mantra for a while. In all those cases, you may want to gain guidance from a deity; and in all those cases the best thing to do is to keep faith. Looking for the things that reinforce your belief instead of what counteracts it, furthermore the things that counteract it could be made into reinforcements. Keep this up, and chances are you'll meet that deity. The reason why it may take some years of mantras, or penance is that the feedback loop (faith/belief) works both ways. We may believe that we are this pitiful mortal so therefore we must show great effort to meet a deity, and we may have also heard of our associates who spoke a mantra constantly for 10 years to meet them. So in reality, its all a matter of what we let happen; looking deeper into the phrase "What do I let happen?" and you'll have something to contemplate on for a while.

 

I agree with this, but have also experienced the opposite . That is , I became very doubtful and rational ; " Its all a projection from my mind ."  Then 'the deity'  warns me, if I get too much like this , they may depart and then tell me a demonstration is coming  ;  so and so  is going to come up to you and say this ;   ... .. ........ 

 

It was just so ridiculous  and so unlike 'so and so ' to say any thing like that  ... but F me - it happened within 10 mins . So I stopped doubting .  Often I have thought something will not work , and then it has  ..... < shrug>

[Mithras]

Oops I tend to write stuff in my head first then write it down; so it reads confusing. The way you explained it was perfect; better than I could put it. But what I was meaning was that if someone did something mentally, and believed in it same way as a physical ritual, would there be any difference? Meaning they emulate the pain of offering flesh, and feel fervor and greatness as if it was entirely real. Some people might call that kind of insane though, but i would think that the results wouldn’t differ so much. You can imagine it being like an imprisoned man just sitting in his cell to the outside world, but in his mind is some vast and ornate ritual that he truly treats as real.

 

Also Ha, I’m just starting to figure out ‘luck’. Fun to hear your stories :), just now getting into creating my own luck so it’ll be exciting times.

 

As for aboriginal ideas; they seem pretty cool. I especially like their idea of sacred time and cyclical time.  very cool stuff. Also unsure if you pasted in that Bill Neidje quote the right way but it seems interesting.

 

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

I agree with this, but have also experienced the opposite . That is , I became very doubtful and rational ; " Its all a projection from my mind ."  Then 'the deity'  warns me, if I get too much like this , they may depart and then tell me a demonstration is coming  ;  so and so  is going to come up to you and say this ;   ... .. ........ 

 

It was just so ridiculous  and so unlike 'so and so ' to say any thing like that  ... but F me - it happened within 10 mins . So I stopped doubting .  Often I have thought something will not work , and then it has  ..... < shrug>

Huh never really experienced much like this. Though I’m glad to hear your experience. It’s cool to see that it can go both ways, in vedantic faith they’d still call stuff like that self effort, just of past lives, and it’s experienced like actual luck/tendencies. 
 

As for deities, never really encountered any. Wonder if I should try to invoke one or other beings at some point. Guidance would be nice in the solo cultivation process. Though, from time to time it feels like I’m being cheered on or guided. Otherwise life feels very silent. Thoughts are mostly left to me and no one else to share them with. Save for internet connections, no one else to talk to about these things or ask, but I suppose solitude is something we have to accept with spiritual practice.

 

Though I am trying to manifest a guardian spirit for that right now, but there’s no rush for it. Feel like it will happen, kind of like ordering something online. Once you’ve ordered it, you wouldn’t say that you don’t have it, just that you’re waiting for it

 

I am somewhat worried about creating projections and so on tho, but I’m sure with enough wisdom and good habits things should end up fine. I imagine once it’s ‘real’ i could approach it in the same way that deity approached you. Would be cool to hear anymore stories you have on this matter, and guidance. I’m no pro just a newbie lol

Edited June 1, 2020 by Mithras