Damo Mitchell Free MCO Course

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

I've spoken quite highly in this thread about Damo, but I'd also like to offer a counterpoint.

 

I do find him quite absolutist. For instance, he is quite disparaging of other styles and systems. Even major traditions that have produced many enlightened masters over the years are treated almost with disdain.

 

I won't get into the specifics, because it was said on a private Facebook group, but the implication is that only what he teaches is correct, and everything else is wrong.

 

I don't doubt his path is a true one, and perhaps even one of the most direct and powerful that is publicly available. But I also don't think it's the only one  

 

Yes after having been in a cult when I was younger I always get uncomfortable when someone says only my way is right and every other way is wrong.

[Vajra Fist]

13 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Yes after having been in a cult when I was younger I always get uncomfortable when someone says only my way is right and every other way is wrong.

 

Having had the same experience, I fully agree. Thankfully if Damo ever intends to be a cult leader, he'd be utterly shit at it. Inflatable pink flamingoes would probably factor into it somehow.

[Bindi]

On 25/10/2021 at 12:08 AM, freeform said:

Yup - completely agree.

 

Some people say that there’s a universal path and all traditions are basically the same. I completely disagree with that… there are clearly a lot of crossovers between certain paths… but equally there are many differences.
 

I have little experience outside of alchemical Daoism and some meditative practice in Buddhism - and I almost always mention that everything I say is from that perspective.

 

Since we’re talking about the Xian Tian attainment on a microcosmic orbit thread, I think it’s clear we’re talking about Daoist alchemy.

 

I’m using a specific definition of ‘realisation’ - one defined by @dwai… we’ve basically had this discussion continuing for a few years now, so we’re not talking about all paths in general.

 

The main disagreement seems to stem from ‘realisation’ vs ‘actualisation’… One is realising your true nature - the other is manifesting this true nature through all layers of existence. The argument Dwai puts forth is that everything is already perfectly actualised - you just need to realise it. Mine is a bit more basic - my tradition, my teachers, and many generations of masters in my lineage unequivocally disagree. And I’ve shared plenty of reasons why.

 

Not even entering into the argument of whether this view is correct or not, it is the traditional Daoist perspective. Komjathy states this clearly in Daoism, a guide for the perplexed, where he writes, "a transcendent spirit is created [his italics], not given. From a traditional Daoist perspective, immortality is not an ontological given; it is actualised through Daoist training (p. 128). As it so happens I do agree with your (and traditional Daoism’s) perspective. 
 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Bindi

[freeform]

9 hours ago, Bindi said:

Not even entering into the argument of whether this view is correct or not, it is the traditional Daoist perspective. Komjathy states this clearly in Daoism, a guide for the perplexed, where he writes, "a transcendent spirit is created [his italics], not given. From a traditional Daoist perspective, immortality is not an ontological given; it is actualised through Daoist training (p. 128). As it so happens I do agree with your (and traditional Daoism’s) perspective. 
 

 

 

Yes - while some traditions focus purely on releasing, letting go, dissolving etc. - Alchemical Daoism has an element of both letting go and building, creating, birthing and so on.

 

It's quite confounding for those heavily invested in their own tradition (that they see as universal) - so I completely understand the 'how can that be so' type of reactions.

 

Far worse is when there's no disbelief - but some twisted form of ‘agreement’ instead. This way Daoism just gets redacted, filtered, manipulated and contorted into something supporting their truth. Alchemical Daoism just becomes another branch of non-dualism or neo-vedanta, or shamanism, or sex magick or christianity etc.

 

 

 

Why not just let a tradition be what it is? Even if you disagree with it. Even if you know better? Why bother with all the hassle and the mental gymnastics of hammering a square peg into a round hole?

 

Now I'm confounded

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by freeform

[Shadow_self]

20 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

I won't get into the specifics, because it was said on a private Facebook group, but the implication is that only what he teaches is correct, and everything else is wrong.

 

I don't take him in this way at all... from what I gather.....he's just unapologetic about the amount of false teachings and methods that float around in the public domain

 

Let me give you an example...I recently had a look into some other traditions, such as Tibetan lines.....my research (and discussions with a quite well versed practitioner)  indicated, that the most common things you come across.... visualize this deity etc etc...is extremely overemphasized to the public and does not serve the functions many people state it does (that's not to say it serves no function...but what it does vs what you are told it does are miles apart)  ….moreover... much like Daoism.... a lot of the actual methods are kept secret for those initiated into lineages...

 

Though in In saying that...I've been shown that there are genuine practices for  tsa lung & trul khor on YouTube of all places! so there's probably others for different practices like Tummo & Phowa buried in there  but the point is...whats fed to the masses is not always as it seems, nor what it is depicted as

[forestofclarity]

4 hours ago, freeform said:

Yes - while some traditions focus purely on releasing, letting go, dissolving etc. - Alchemical Daoism has an element of both letting go and building, creating, birthing and so on.

 

I think most traditions have some mix. From a Buddhist POV, I would use "effort" and "effortless" methods. However, the former is usually a method to develop the latter. Interestingly, I have heard that certain Tantric forms also develop a body that is to survive death. However, such practices seem to be aimed at full time practitioners. I wonder if internal alchemy is similar. It appears quite different from the Mahamudra/Dzogchen styles of practice.

 

2 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

I don't take him in this way at all.

 

I have the same impression FWIW, but I wouldn't go to him for anything other than neigong. 

 

 

 

 

[refugeindharma]

12 hours ago, Shadow_self said:

I don't take him in this way at all... from what I gather.....he's just unapologetic about the amount of false teachings and methods that float around in the public domain

 

Agreed, he definitely holds a strong stance and opinion on cultivation matters, and I think that's quite good instead of being wishy washy.

 

You just have to take him and it for what it is, I've never gotten the feeling that he's preached "everything else is wrong", he definitely has certain practices or traditions that he does not necessarily agree or align with but I've not gotten the impression that it is his way or the highway.

[S:C]

On 26.10.2021 at 8:52 AM, Frederic said:

It took years to integrate this experience because all previous motivations where no longer relevant, yet the ego still had (and still has) a lot of habitual movements, so searching, grasping and stuff like that often happens.

Sounds great!

How did you manage this? 

(feel free to pm if you like.)

[Frederic]

On 1-11-2021 at 10:03 PM, questionmark said:

Sounds great!

How did you manage this? 

(feel free to pm if you like.)

 

I'm not sure how to answer. Life happens. What helped is that every time some grasping occurred, that after a while I would realize it happening (sometimes after months, but time became shorter and shorter). It is an ongoing process. Further more different teachers or teaching materials often come at exactly the right time to help with integration. Tim Freke was a big one for me. Now new material and teachers show up and a whole new path of exploration and deepening presents itself.

 

I've noticed that a lot of motivations came from a feeling of lack. And from that flowed grasping and striving. In essence a running away from feeling something in myself. trying to cover something up. Over time motivations changed to enjoying practicing for the sake of it, or exploring Self because it interests me. I feel that after all that I'm right now just beginning to be able to practice properly! If you want to discuss this further you can PM me.

[el_tortugo]

6 hours ago, Frederic said:

Over time motivations changed to enjoying practicing for the sake of it, or exploring Self because it interests me.

 

This is so crucial I think, and likely one wouldn't really "get it" until it just happens. Motivation from a feeling of lack and practicing with a sense of grasping and striving is miserable looking back. This shift is one of the things that found me back here at the Bums. 

 

 

[moreira Filho]

On 18/06/2020 at 10:58 AM, freeform said:

Yeah - this happened before my main teacher. When I asked him if I’d done any lasting damage from that, he just laughed and said not to worry... which means I probably did 

 

That’s alright - life is constant damage. Nothing to worry about.

Hi. What is your primary nei gong teacher and system? Thanks

[freeform]

20 hours ago, moreira Filho said:

Hi. What is your primary nei gong teacher and system? Thanks

Hi

 

My teacher prefers to maintain anonymity, and he no longer accepts new students - so I respect his wishes and don’t give away any personal info.

 

My system is primarily from the Dragon Gate tradition.

[moreira Filho]

5 hours ago, freeform said:

Hi

 

My teacher prefers to maintain anonymity, and he no longer accepts new students - so I respect his wishes and don’t give away any personal info.

 

My system is primarily from the Dragon Gate tradition.

Hi. Thank you for the info. Any student became available for teaching? Or any school open for students? 

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, moreira Filho said:

Hi. Thank you for the info. Any student became available for teaching? Or any school open for students? 

 

You can find teachings from the Longmen/Dragons Gate sect here

 

https://damomitchell.com/

 

https://online.nathanbrine.com/

 

Personally, Id recommend the former...

[freeform]

On 03/02/2022 at 3:32 PM, moreira Filho said:

Hi. Thank you for the info. Any student became available for teaching? Or any school open for students? 

What @Shadow_self said

 

You could also add Wang Li Ping to that list… though I have some reservations.

[Cleansox]

Www.ianduncan.org 

[EFreethought]

@Shadow_self: Why do you prefer Damo over Brine?

 

@freeform: Why the reservations with Wang Li Ping?

 

[freeform]

12 minutes ago, EFreethought said:

Why the reservations with Wang Li Ping?

He doesn’t teach the foundation training… so most people that train with him simply have short lived experiences rather than full transformation.

 

Same problem with Nathan Brine… he has an extensive background in martial arts and other internal work (which I imagine helped build his foundation) - but he jumps right into alchemical work - that will never go far without the abundance of dense qi as well as the open channels and strong conductive body that foundation work builds.

[Shadao]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

He doesn’t teach the foundation training… so most people that train with him simply have short lived experiences rather than full transformation.

 

Same problem with Nathan Brine… he has an extensive background in martial arts and other internal work (which I imagine helped build his foundation) - but he jumps right into alchemical work - that will never go far without the abundance of dense qi as well as the open channels and strong conductive body that foundation work builds.

Why this "skipping" of theirs?Isn't it a known maxim that you should always learn the basics first?

[freeform]

1 minute ago, Shadao said:

Why this "skipping" of theirs?Isn't it a known maxim that you should always learn the basics first?

It’s a known maxim if you want to become a true master of the art… but the reality is that the vast majority of people just want a taste of alchemy - like having it as a hobby or an interest.

 

Its hard to teach the foundation… it’s hard to practice the foundation - it’s boring, uncomfortable and takes years. So many masters will teach what they enjoy teaching instead - and it’s up to you to make it work or treat it like a hobby.

 

I lived with my teacher for years to build the foundation - full time practice with one day off a week. It’s a pretty big commitment for me - as well as for my teacher and his family.
 

People have lives and teachers have only so much bandwidth. The people for whom this is their life’s work - they’ll find a way of building the foundation… or they won’t…
 

 

[Shadow_self]

1 hour ago, EFreethought said:

@Shadow_self: Why do you prefer Damo over Brine?

 

 

Because of what @freeformmentioned....Neither Nathan nor his teacher tell you that you'd want years of foundations before the higher level stuff really clicks..and they don't teach it...Now I know Wang Liping pushes out a massive Qi field that does a bit of the work for you so that the other stuff "happens" on retreats...but without daily practice...these things will  certainly fade

 

And the thing is..the foundations aren't overly complicated...they are fairly straightforward to start once you've been given the right instruction...The bigger issue is the explanation imo...and I diverge from people on this...by way of explanation, some are connected to the practice in a way that the other students never can be...That doesn't mean you tell people what to feel...but rather how things work and what you are trying to do...essentially understanding cause and effect...

 

Usually what might be withheld is the signposts so that expectation isn't a factor..

 

Also..foundation work is physically hard..painful even and  mostly boring (depending on your mental makeup) 

[Cleansox]

Not that boring... 

 

You just do something over a long period of time. Like watching paint dry, or a plant grow. While doing something hard and painful. 

 

Sounds weird when put in writing. 

[Shadao]

8 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

You just do something over a long period of time.

9 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

While doing something hard and painful

Ah, so it's like a day in school.

[EFreethought]

On 2/7/2022 at 3:57 PM, freeform said:

He doesn’t teach the foundation training… so most people that train with him simply have short lived experiences rather than full transformation.

 

Same problem with Nathan Brine… he has an extensive background in martial arts and other internal work (which I imagine helped build his foundation) - but he jumps right into alchemical work - that will never go far without the abundance of dense qi as well as the open channels and strong conductive body that foundation work builds.

 

So in other words: Is the ultimate answer to sit in meditation for a few hours every day for a few years?

 

I read part of "Opening the Dragon Gate" recently, and it seems like that is what Wang Li Ping did to start out.

 

[Cleansox]

52 minutes ago, EFreethought said:

 

So in other words: Is the ultimate answer to sit in meditation for a few hours every day for a few years?

No. 

In some traditions, you start with "Opening shit up" and laying the foundation, which can be standing and moving methods. 

 

The russian group was very adamant on that, and you will find that idea in other traditions as well.