Song of the Dao Posted June 24, 2020 It saddens me to always come back here and find people who are still so serious and get offended. Where is the spontaneity? I cannot help to think of this story by Zhuangzi, when Confucius and his students saw a man in the turbulence at the bottom of a huge waterfall and the rushed to help him, only to see him walking along the banks of the river below unharmed. Quote Confucius followed and asked him, saying, 'I thought you were a sprite; but, when I look closely at you, I see that you are a man. Let me ask if you have any particular way of treading the water.' The man said, 'No, I have no particular way. I began (to learn the art) at the very earliest time; as I grew up, it became my nature to practise it; and my success in it is now as sure as fate. I enter and go down with the water in the very centre of its whirl, and come up again with it when it whirls the other way. I follow the way of the water, and do nothing contrary to it of myself;-- this is how I tread it.' Confucius said, 'What do you mean by saying that you began to learn the art at the very earliest time; that as you grew up, it became your nature to practise it, and that your success in it now is as sure as fate?' The man replied, 'I was born among these hills and lived contented among them;-- that was why I say that I have trod this water from my earliest time. I grew up by it, and have been happy treading it;-- that is why I said that to tread it had become natural to me. I know not how I do it, and yet I do it;-- that is why I say that my success is as sure as fate.' So when I read the post here on how one should do this or that to get this or that I will playfully create the waterfall and as a result I see people thrashing about in the turbulence I have created. People are offended! No one can float with the turbulence! The people who come here and have all the answers, they are dead people, but everyone will worship them, the next guru. Instead of sharpening their instinct they seek quick answers from strangers. Should I drink water when I eat? Do it and see how you feel! Why listen to anybody but the Dao? If you want to be a great leader, you must learn to follow the Tao. Stop trying to control. Let go of fixed plans and concepts, and the world will govern itself. Look at how many on here are obsessed with control! How can you reach enlightenment that way? Also from Zhuangzi: Quote Those who would correct their nature by means of the vulgar learning, seeking to restore it to its original condition, and those who would regulate their desires, by the vulgar ways of thinking, seeking thereby to carry their intelligence to perfection, must be pronounced to be deluded and ignorant people. The ancients who regulated the Tâo nourished their faculty of knowledge by their placidity, and all through life abstained from employing that faculty in action;-- they must be pronounced to have (thus also) nourished their placidity by their knowledge. Spontaneity is non-interference by vulgar thinking. Am I thirsty when I am eating right now? Yes? So I take a drink. That is the Dao, that is placidity. If you think it is bad that you are drinking water when you eat, the spontaneity is dead, you have created dualism and you are far from the Dao. This is hard for yo uto hear because you want control, you want to know how to act and how to eat to reach enlightenment and live close to the Dao. But with all these rules and gurus you make good and bad and then the ten thousand things follow. And so you need a guru to try to help you out of the mess and they will help you for some money or some fame. Qi is not something to be manipulated. Only something to be understood. You do not use your thoughts to correct Qi, you let your body do it and get out fo the way. Again, spontaneity. So when I see topics like "Calligraphy as Cultivation" and "Is taoist breathing compatible with 6-pack abs?" and " waterdrop Best isolation of feet from earth material ?" I know I still have a lot of waiting to do for the Dao to return. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 24, 2020 34 minutes ago, Song of the Dao said: Stop trying to control. Perhaps you could utilize this in your contributions to threads and opinions you disagree with? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Song of the Dao Posted June 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, silent thunder said: Perhaps you could utilize this in your contributions to threads and opinions you disagree with? Seriously, explain how you think I am trying to control anyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted June 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Song of the Dao said: Seriously, explain how you think I am trying to control anyone. You are owed nothing. Nor am I. The center is everywhere. Good day mate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Song of the Dao Posted June 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, silent thunder said: You are owed nothing. Nor am I. The center is everywhere. Good day mate. People so often say things they cannot explain. It is a knee jerk reaction created by the conflict of their thoughts with reality. The center is not everywhere, another method for people to keep engaging in vulgar thought while excusing it with saying that mean nothing. The center is in the middle. Even stupid Lao Tzu knew this! Throw away holiness and wisdom, and people will be a hundred times happier. Throw away morality and justice, and people will do the right thing. Throw away industry and profit, and there won’t be any thieves. If these three aren’t enough,just stay at the center of the circle and let all things take their course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cleansox Posted June 25, 2020 17 hours ago, Song of the Dao said: It saddens me to always come back here That happens 😁 17 hours ago, Song of the Dao said: I know I still have a lot of waiting to do for the Dao to return. But if you have the time, start a thread. As you can see, it's a bit slow here but if you start a good one I'm sure the bums will come out of the woodwork. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted June 25, 2020 Seems like Song of the Dao is bothered and complaining about people who are bothered and complaining about his posts. If your main contribution here is to complain about others, it seems like a grouchy old mans kind of activity. You may want to consider posting and getting involved in threads that you like; can say something positive about. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Song of the Dao Posted June 25, 2020 5 hours ago, thelerner said: Seems like Song of the Dao is bothered and complaining about people who are bothered and complaining about his posts. If your main contribution here is to complain about others, it seems like a grouchy old mans kind of activity. You may want to consider posting and getting involved in threads that you like; can say something positive about. Doesn't the wind blow fiercely sometimes? Doesn't the rain come down in torrents in the humid spring? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 25, 2020 19 minutes ago, Song of the Dao said: Doesn't the wind blow fiercely sometimes? Doesn't the rain come down in torrents in the humid spring? Found this a bit interesting: https://mydescentintomadness.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/tao-te-ching-verse-23/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, Song of the Dao said: Doesn't the wind blow fiercely sometimes? Doesn't the rain come down in torrents in the humid spring? Yes, it does. Emulating the Dao, I imagine that I am a fierce wind or a torrential rain. I play the game of being stormy with people to see if they can flexibly and spontaneously bend with the natural forces I wield. (Ha! They can´t.) Eventually an even bigger wind comes along and blows my roof off. Oops. Such is the ever-turning Dao. Edited June 25, 2020 by liminal_luke 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Song of the Dao Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) Old Edited May 7, 2021 by Song of the Dao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted June 25, 2020 33 minutes ago, Song of the Dao said: I am not the one with 4,551 posts on this forum! Ha! Oh my... Quote And that is a horrible translation. Personally I prefer the Feng/English translation, but the sharing wasn’t about the translation. It was about the article which I do find rather interesting in a way which has nothing to do with the first line, but the duration of storms - in this instance correlated with forced activity. Quote This is just my natural response to the silliness here. Whay are you making it more than that? Express yourself completely,then keep quiet. Be like the forces of nature: when it blows, there is only wind; when it rains, there is only rain; when the clouds pass, the sun shines through. If you open yourself to the Tao, you are at one with the Tao and you can embody it completely. If you open yourself to insight, you are at one with insight and you can use it completely. If you open yourself to loss, you are at one with loss and you can accept it completely. Open yourself to the Tao, then trust your natural responses; and everything will fall into place. Which translation is this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted June 27, 2020 Forget you have a self includes forgetting others have a self and then there is only the functioning of the Tao, nobody doing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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