Quick question on detox in cultivation

[Paradoxal]

Hi! I'm new around here, but I have trained in western magic for ~5-6 years and martial arts for ~3 years. I started neigong martial cultivation around a year ago, and am still in a detox phase. Over this past year, I've averaged 30-60 minutes a day of internal practice, with a few breakthroughs felt. I spent the majority of my youth on various psychiatric medicine, and only got off it all when I was around 20. Is it possible that this is what's causing my detox period to take this long? From the research I've done, it usually wouldn't take over a month even in those on medicine. Would 20 years of pills take 20 years to detox? If anyone has any experience or knowledge in this regard, I would greatly appreciate input! 

 

Thank you for reading!

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[Paradoxal]

Much appreciated on the welcomes and links to the rules! I have anonymously lurked around quite a bit on here before, as I've found answers to many of my questions in threads on TDB. The main things I seek is food for thought, possible solutions, or resources to check, though I'm happy with any responses I get. I've been taught to learn everything I can, afterall.

[RiverSnake]

From a chemical perspective, if you want to flush the toxins from your body i'd do a water fast....perhaps several. 

 

On a more serious note, if you have mental/emotional imbalances, then doing energy work or magick carries a higher risk because there is a circuitry imbalance in your system. This means that when power flows through your system it has a higher potential of triggering agitation. As a result, stabilizing practices can be extremely important to practice in the beginning so that you become more durable. PM me if you'd like some help.  

[Paradoxal]

First off, thank you for the reply! 

 

Water fasts are something I did before I started cultivating, though I stopped due to my energy consumption during cultivation. 

 

What kind of stabilizing practices do you suggest? 

[freeform]

What do you mean by detox? What are you experiencing?

[Paradoxal]

19 hours ago, freeform said:

What do you mean by detox? What are you experiencing?

 

Stuff leaving the body through excrement triggered by energy work. If you're asking for specifics, it's hard to exactly describe it, but it's like the sweat is thicker than normal? A massive level of exhaustion, quite a few headaches, B/O problems, allergy-like symptoms. It seems to happen the most after using my cultivation technique, but does sometimes happen after microcosmic orbit or turtle shell breathing. From the research I've done, this should be a pretty standard thing when building a foundation, but I've never heard of it lasting for more than a year before. That said, very few people have been on the level of psych-meds that I've taken throughout my life, so I wonder if the extended length is par for the course?

 

As a small example, at a few times throughout my childhood, they put me on enough experimental medicine to make me forget how to talk. For most of my school years, I was taking enough medicine to stunt my IQ by around 40 points. I had issues with going berserk (blacking out, screaming about killing people, and attacking anything in sight; it took 5 grown men to hold down myself as a fourth grader), and none of the western medicine was really doing much to stop it. They removed me from said medicine around the time I turned 20 due to potential kidney and liver failure. After I started studying magic, I found the "cure" in that it was an issue with the amount of energy I had naturally combined with some negative influences, and after removing those influences, I've was relieved of said issue.

 

In addition, the summer that I begun cultivation proper, I had accidentally overdosed on gout medicine to the point that the doctors said I was lucky I didn't have total organ failure. Funny story there is that I overdosed on Thursday, went to the ER on Friday, left the hospital late Saturday night, and went to the class that taught me the basics on Sunday. Fate's strange like that, I suppose.

 

That was somewhat of a tangent, but I believe it is sufficient to explain the amount of contamination I started this journey with, as well as reasons for said contamination and symptoms of detox. On the bright side, with each day I practice, I can feel my mind becoming more and more agile. 

[freeform]

Sorry to hear you were pumped full of drugs as a kid - but glad you found your own way out

 

Yes you’re right your detox symptoms sound like standard purging symptoms - but as you say, they should not last so long... usually it will be a few ‘events’ within the first year or so of practice. Not several years and not constant at all - even with all the medication you received.

 

i knew a guy who trained with us - he used to be an ‘airbrush artist’ for an advertising firm in the 80s/90s - this involved 8hrs a day of using spray paints - for many years. When his purging started he would sweat strange bright colours, colour would collect under his nails and drip out from the edge, his eye whites would change tint etc. But this stopped within about three or four months.

 

i think to be on the safe side it might be a good idea to consult a Chinese Medicine practitioner - just to make sure there isn’t some toxic process going on.

[Paradoxal]

I see said past as being instrumental to forming the person I am now, and thus do not lament it too much. I'll probably go see a TCM practitioner once life stops giving curveballs, assuming the symptoms persist. One mistake I have made in my practice was underestimating the importance of the MCO, so I haven't actually worked on opening it until less than a month ago. After beginning on my MCO, a lot of my other symptoms have ceased being an issue, though the purging still seems to be happening. I'll give it a week or two to sort itself out and proceed accordingly.

 

Much thanks for the input on here!

[E. S. A.]

19 hours ago, freeform said:

When his purging started he would sweat strange bright colours, colour would collect under his nails and drip out from the edge, his eye whites would change tint etc. But this stopped within about three or four months.

What a sight to see. Never heard of anything like this. 
 

I wonder if maybe something in Paradoxal’s day to day life is causing a influx of toxins that is not allowing you to get pat this point.

 

I am very new to this myself and am very interested to see if I will have any of said effects related to my personal drug use.

 

Maybe a daily log would be useful? That’s what we do in ritual Magick. Very precise notes and observations that allow you to try to parse connections and then further try to discern correlation vs causation. What you ate, sleep schedule, etc... things you feel might have an outcome on your practice. 
 

Cheers,

E. S. A.

[freeform]

3 hours ago, E. S. A. said:

Maybe a daily log would be useful?

yes a practice journal is very handy for exactly that reason and more. It’s a useful tool

[freeform]

22 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

underestimating the importance of the MCO

I’d recommend you o find Damo Mitchell’s MCO course - it’s free and the only genuine teaching on the mco that I’ve come across in public.

[Paradoxal]

4 hours ago, E. S. A. said:

What a sight to see. Never heard of anything like this. 
 

I wonder if maybe something in Paradoxal’s day to day life is causing a influx of toxins that is not allowing you to get pat this point.

 

I am very new to this myself and am very interested to see if I will have any of said effects related to my personal drug use.

 

Maybe a daily log would be useful? That’s what we do in ritual Magick. Very precise notes and observations that allow you to try to parse connections and then further try to discern correlation vs causation. What you ate, sleep schedule, etc... things you feel might have an outcome on your practice. 
 

Cheers,

E. S. A.

The magic I practice is not ritual magic, but the art of making things happen without motion. Controlling the weather for the day with a thought would be a good example of it, but it's easiest to think of it as a soft luck modifier without the need for physical action. It doesn't require journal-ing, nor do I keep records of spells I cast or techniques that I learn. I've actually never kept a journal for anything, ever. It's one thing that's just against my personal values. I'd like to leave very little proof of my existence, if at all possible. Well, that's becoming less and less possible with each post I make online, so I may need to reconsider that value.

 

Indeed though, my house is not exactly clean. It's cleaner than when I started, but definitely not "clean". That said, I don't think it's at the point where it would cause this process to stretch like this. The only other thing I can think of is contamination in my energy, which would be a bit harder for me to notice, but I do not think is the case given the fact that my internal energy has only risen since starting and my external energy influence has stayed steady with slight improvements. 

 

42 minutes ago, freeform said:

I’d recommend you o find Damo Mitchell’s MCO course - it’s free and the only genuine teaching on the mco that I’ve come across in public.

 

I'll look it up, thank you! A lot of my issues with cultivation are in the fact that 20+ years of work was covered in a 6-hour seminar, so I've definitely got holes in my process. He did cover both micro and macro orbits, but I did not recognize how important they were to open until after I'd already had my fire rise, so I'm paying the price now.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Paradoxal

[Scholar]

You dont necessarily needs a detox, maybe theres no medication left in your body. What happens is that long term use of SSRIs will change tthe structure and quantity of your serotonin receptors to adapt to the medicine. When you stop, your brain need to readapt his receptors because you changed serotonin supply. You will feel these effects until your brain get totally adapted, it may be fast or it may take time.

[Cleansox]

14 minutes ago, Scholar said:

What happens is that long term use of SSRIs will change tthe structure and quantity of your serotonin receptors to adapt to the medicine. When you stop, your brain need to readapt his receptors because you changed serotonin supply. You will feel these effects until your brain get totally adapted, it may be fast or it may take time.

Good point. 

And fatigue, headaches and symptoms of autonomic dysregulation might be caused by the brains inability to activate functional networks, proper blood circulation and the glymphatic system. 

Meds, and the reason why one started on meds, can cause that. 

 

Proper basic practices will fix that though (If I ever get an PPD I will dedicate a thread to this subject). 

[Daniel]

On 6/27/2020 at 9:38 AM, Paradoxal said:

Would 20 years of pills take 20 years to detox? If anyone has any experience or knowledge in this regard, I would greatly appreciate input! 

Hi Paradoxal,

 

Sorry for the late welcome.  I'm new here too and still figuring things out. 

 

The simple answer is, yes, it can take a super-duper long time to detox off psychiatric meds.  The worst of them is Lithium, if I recall.  There's a detox advocate out there, I cannot remember her name, but, if needed/desired I'll locate her website.  About 2-3 years ago she was setting up her own forum and website specifically targeting the problems of detoxing off psych meds.

 

But more than that, if you had been taking psyche meds for 20 years, then, that means there's more to detox than just the chemicals.  The entire western psychiatric approach may have been toxic for you.  Just say'n...

 

( Disclaimer:  I'm not intending to discourage anyone from psychiatric treatment or psychotherapy, BTW.  But it's an undeniable fact that some people do *not* react well to western psychiatric methods and western psychotherapy. )

[Paradoxal]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

But more than that, if you had been taking psyche meds for 20 years, then, that means there's more to detox than just the chemicals.  The entire western psychiatric approach may have been toxic for you.  Just say'n...

It certainly was toxic for me. I was on lithium for multiple years as well. Quite frankly, it feels like a miracle that my liver and kidneys are still working. It was like there was a thick layer of mucus over my normal aura, if we're talking metaphysically.

I'd love a link to that website if you can find one!

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post!

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

( Disclaimer:  I'm not intending to discourage anyone from psychiatric treatment or psychotherapy, BTW.  But it's an undeniable fact that some people do *not* react well to western psychiatric methods and western psychotherapy. )

 

Oh boy, I could start a thread on that and how in this country (Philippines), their misunderstanding of how one is supposed to act western and follow the model is not only dubious, but does not work in a country where people basically want you to tell them what to do as opposed to a more Gestaltian model with Socratic influence to help reflect. It made my own psychiatric therapy in the US seem like a fantastic thing and it doesn't help with existing societal attitudes towards mental health in this country, so the narcotics problem and refusal to acknowledge the seriousness of mental health combined with a lot of superstition amongst Catholics and Muslims alike makes a really bad scenario. 

[Khamasie]

I have not been taken meds etc. But, just maybe as a reference.

 

My detoxification process also depends on the type of practice I do (just started Kunlun and got a different detox).

 

Mostly with "proper" practice, I would get this way sticky sweat. Like if apple juice or something is sticking to my hands. I've been having this (and only started) for the last 3 months, but my practice was not regular. And when reflecting on it now it seemed like the body has a lot more instore but because I've not fixed my diet (my family line has a very sensitive body to all substances) it will not let it all out and really open the tap to flush. What is happening now is that I'm slowly going towards a healthier diet too as my body detoxes slowly. Meanwhile, some emotional and mental problems, which ofc have a huge vote in what I pick as a diet, started to smooth out.

 

I've lately only looked at the future prospect of practice tbh till reading this post. But letting this information sink in remembers me that detoxification can take long and it can come in waves. E.g. when emotional and mental locks are present the body will not open up in once. Which is totally fine. As your health is also interwoven with the mundane life sometimes it might just be nice to take it slow get a step higher, integrate the changes in the mundane, step forward, etc.

 

3-4 months to detox air brush, that is freaking amazing to me (almost becoming jealous xD). Also that sounds like a ready person.

 

Good luck

[Daniel]

22 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Oh boy, I could start a thread on that and how in this country (Philippines), their misunderstanding of how one is supposed to act western and follow the model is not only dubious, but does not work in a country where people basically want you to tell them what to do as opposed to a more Gestaltian model with Socratic influence to help reflect. It made my own psychiatric therapy in the US seem like a fantastic thing and it doesn't help with existing societal attitudes towards mental health in this country, so the narcotics problem and refusal to acknowledge the seriousness of mental health combined with a lot of superstition amongst Catholics and Muslims alike makes a really bad scenario. 

Agreed.  It is a huge topic.  And that doesn't even include the problems associated with lack of consistent Mental Health insurance for many Americans.  I can't site any real data, but my own experience has been that Mental Health Insurance coverage changes each year as my employer tries to offset annual premium increases.  I've been told that this is not uncommon for small businesses.

 

But regarding psychiatry, medications and treatments are considered effective based on their statistical specificity and sensitivities.   At best, the last I reviewed the information, a clinical psychiatrist is able to help 75% of the time.  The other 25% are either misdiagnosed, mistreated, or both.  75/25 is good odds, therefore people should try it, of course.  But most medical Drs that I know do not openly speak about the 25% of psychiatric patients who don't get better or get worse.  They are too concerned with non-compliance and practicing defensive medicine ( aka trying to avoid medical board complaints ).

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Daniel

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

Agreed.  It is a huge topic.  And that doesn't even include the problems associated with lack of consistent Mental Health insurance for many Americans.  I can't site any real data, but my own experience has been that Mental Health Insurance coverage changes each year as my employer tries to offset annual premium increases.  I've been told that this is not uncommon for small businesses.

 

But regarding psychiatry, medications and treatments are considered effective based on their statistical specificity and sensitivities.   At best, the last I reviewed the information, a clinical psychiatrist is able to help 75% of the time.  The other 25% are either misdiagnosed, mistreated, or both.  75/25 is good odds, therefore people should try it, of course.  But most medical Drs that I know do not openly speak about the 25% of psychiatric patients who don't get better or get worse.  They are too concerned with non-compliance and practicing defensive medicine ( aka trying to avoid medical board complaints ).

 

 

 

Started a draft on a thread I just created. 

 

 

[Daniel]

7 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Started a draft on a thread I just created

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