UDT Cultivation

[Daniel]

Please excuse the ignorant question:  Are there neidan practices which focus on UDT cultivation?

 

Is UDT cultivation dangerous?

[RiverSnake]

Possibly, i am not familiar with any. Balance is important.  

 

Yes UDT cultivation is dangerous. These things shouldn't be opened before the system is ready....doing so prematurely can cause insanity. 

[Paradoxal]

Forgive my ignorance and slight sidestepping on this matter as well, but what does UDT stand for? 

[Daniel]

@RiverSnake

 

Good to know.

[Daniel]

Hello Paradoxal, I don't intend to dodge your question.  However, since I have been instructed above that cultivating UDT is dangerous, I am hesitant to give out any information on it.

 

Also, I'm a beginner.  I know nothing.

 

You should be able to get info using google to search terms like "daoism UDT".  There should be some charts and information online that will help.

 

Further, if you are still having trouble locating information, I can look in some of my text books to see if there is a description which is both informative but not about cultivation in any way.

 

[Paradoxal]

Before posting my reply, I had already googled a few terms similar, but the one you suggested there did answer my question. Upper Dantian, correct? Much thanks! 

 

In that regard, I actually do know of one exercise that potentially cultivates it, but quite frankly, I would also agree that it is dangerous (potentially even self-destructive). From all the literature I've read and things I've been taught, it's usually best to start with the lower dantian, because it will work its way up on its own. I am still much a novice, however, so this is in no way a 100% declaration, rather, echoing of my own limited experiences combined with what I have been taught.

[RiverSnake]

11 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

Before posting my reply, I had already googled a few terms similar, but the one you suggested there did answer my question. Upper Dantian, correct? Much thanks! 

 

In that regard, I actually do know of one exercise that potentially cultivates it, but quite frankly, I would also agree that it is dangerous (potentially even self-destructive). From all the literature I've read and things I've been taught, it's usually best to start with the lower dantian, because it will work its way up on its own. I am still much a novice, however, so this is in no way a 100% declaration, rather, echoing of my own limited experiences combined with what I have been taught.

 

Healthy systems of cultivation have safeguards built in so that you don't accidentally open anything before the time is right. Additionally, trusting your intuition and learning not to apply force at the wrong time is key.

 

There are many different systems of cultivation, one path is not suitable to all practitioners. Certain people can grind pretty hard on 3rd Eye cultivation and not have any adverse effects because of there natural constitution.....others....you jus give them one jab in that area and there gone with the wind. Gradual practice to create the right internal space where these processes can safely unfold is key.  

[Cleansox]

3 hours ago, Daniel said:

Please excuse the ignorant question:  Are there neidan practices which focus on UDT cultivation?

Working with niwan/muddy pellet is an integral part of most energy based spiritual arts. 

 

What differs is the how. 

 

Most schools won't start there, but there are exceptions to that as to anything else. 

And, following @RiverSnake's post, starting with grounding oneself in the body and work up through the different aspects of oneself is generally safer. 

[Daniel]

Hello Cleansox,  Thank you for your helpful advice.

 

My lineage is not a cultivation path.  However, buried under all the rules and devotionals, I'm starting to notice a UDT cultivation path hidden deeply there.

 

The more I contemplated on it, the more destructive it was to my Self.

 

( sigh )

 

Further, I am a tiny bit smart in Math.  In studying Quantum Mechanics I noticed the same thing, a UDT cultivation path hidden deeply there.

 

The link between the two is, both rendered insanity for me as I contemplated on them as cultivation paths.

 

To test my theory, that my own religious practice, and contemplation of q.m. are both UDT cultivation paths, I went ahead and combined them and practiced both simultaneously this weekend.  Insanity was the result.

 

I'm coming back from it now, it will probably take a week or two to recover.  However, there remains a problem.

 

My brain at this point cannot be exposed to any of my own religious practices, nor can it be exposed to Math in any way or else....

 

Ziiiiiiiiiiip.  I jump right back to insanity.

 

It would be a bigger problem if it weren't for the Pandemic.  I'm a tutor, for middle school students.  Guess what I tutor...

 

Hebrew language and Math to middle school students.  Gratefully, due to the pandemic, my insanity isn't affecting my work.

 

That's why I was sking about UDT, thinking potentially that I could reinforce mySelf. 

 

My Take away is:  I need to start at the ground floor, build a foundation brick by brick no matter how long it takes.  And then if/when the pandemic subsides, I'll be able to go back to tutoring without feeling my sanity drift away.

[Daniel]

13 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

Before posting my reply, I had already googled a few terms similar, but the one you suggested there did answer my question. Upper Dantian, correct? Much thanks! 

 

If I recall, a description of the UDT can be found in a discussion of the 9 palaces in The Routledge Encyclopedia of Taoism

compiled by Fabrizio Pregadio.  I have it in my collection, and I am happy to provide the relevant entry/entries here if there is interest.

 

Disclaimer:  my memory is still bungled and botched from this weekend.  So I may be miss-remembering all of this.

[Daniel]

11 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Working with niwan/muddy pellet is an integral part of most energy based spiritual arts. 

 

Forgive me, this may be ignorant:   niwan?  does it include physical movements/postures in its practice?

[Paradoxal]

22 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

If I recall, a description of the UDT can be found in a discussion of the 9 palaces in The Routledge Encyclopedia of Taoism

compiled by Fabrizio Pregadio.  I have it in my collection, and I am happy to provide the relevant entry/entries here if there is interest.

 

Disclaimer:  my memory is still bungled and botched from this weekend.  So I may be miss-remembering all of this.

Ah, no, no, I am familiar with what the upper dantian is, I've just never seen it abbreviated like that. Niwan and Muddy pellet are other names for the same thing. That said, I clearly am still lacking in knowledge if I didn't recognize that UDT was upper dantian, so I'd be happy if you were to provide the relevant entries here.

Much thanks again!

[Daniel]

48 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

Niwan and Muddy pellet are other names for the same thing.

OMG....

 

That is a missing link to many many of my questions.

 

Thank you so very kindly for saying this.

 

Sincerely,

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

does it include physical movements/postures in its practice?

Sitting, standing, moving. 

 I rarely sit, and get better quality standing than moving. 

 

That depends on the method, so it is a truth in my method only. 

 

There are so many ways of doing things, but if you stick around here you will see many here preach about the nessicity of having a method. That is normally followed by a discussion about which method (I like mine, but that goes for most people here). 

[idiot_stimpy]

Does the UDT relate to 'space' or an absence of the personal self?

 

I can see peering into this level could be dangerous to those who still derive their sense of self from the constructed ego. 

[Cleansox]

20 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Does the UDT relate to 'space'

Space as in earth, water, fire, Air, space? 

 

My favourite answer:That depends. 

Traditionally, before things were simplified and modern, it was said that you "install" the elements in the chakras. Nowadays, many teachers just routinely correllate them to chakras. 

 

There are chinese systems (and a tibetan) that doesn't even have them in the traditional order (from earth to space). 

 

UDT cultivation and emptiness? 

Perhaps. But you do not have to focus on the UDT to reach emptiness. 

 

Quote

or an absence of the personal self?

Don't know. 

Quote

 

I can see peering into this level could be dangerous to those who still derive their sense of self from the constructed ego. 

It is more dangerous for persons that haven't Integrated physicality and emotions, and it can lead to rather nasty dissociative experiences if someone really push it. 

 

Just read a great article about it, based on interviews with people that had breakthroughs/breakdowns mostly during retreats. 

Not fun! 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Cleansox
Added stuff

[idiot_stimpy]

Breakdowns or breakthroughs, sounds like crossing the abyss in western occultism. You make it or you don't and welcome madness.