Question on the dantians

[Cleansox]

On 2020-07-09 at 3:35 PM, forestofemptiness said:

What I said is I don't see the Elixer development FF mentioned in the Buddhist schools I am familiar with. Of course, I am not familiar with every Buddhist school, and there are many, but I would be surprised.  By all means, surprise me everyone!

Anyone who is a part of such a tradition might be reluctant to name it on a forum. 

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What I did not say was that there is no energy development. Yes, some Buddhists and and do work with energy but it is a means and not an end. The end, as set forth but the Buddha, is the end of suffering through the end of clinging. Buddhism without the Four Noble truths and the four dharma seals is not Buddhism, IMO. 

Absolutely not. But sometimes a tradition keep a name although the content is something else. 

Like a vegetarian meatball. 

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Nearly every Buddhist school claims that their tradition is secret, traces back to the Buddha, is the original/highest/best method, contains methods others don't know about, etc. Like with all conceptual expressions, it is a story.

Yes, I agree. 

And a couple of generations down, it becomes (truth) legend. 

[doc benway]

On 7/8/2020 at 3:18 PM, EmeraldHead said:

And we all know the colour of the energy enlightement (dharmakaya) is golden.

 

Buddhist (dzogchen) teachings refer to dharmakaya as colorless. The distinctive quality of dharmakaya is that it cannot be imputed with any dualistic qualities like color, size,  center, boundary, etc... it is like space.

[EmeraldHead]

59 minutes ago, steve said:

 

Buddhist (dzogchen) teachings refer to dharmakaya as colorless. The distinctive quality of dharmakaya is that it cannot be imputed with any dualistic qualities like color, size,  center, boundary, etc... it is like space.

I think both are right. Like what is the colour of chi? ...

 

In it's true objective nature yes. But subjectively many buddhists refer to sambogakaya transmissions or white light of sambogakaya in meditation. Similarly there are unique qi like energies to dharmakaya, beyond manifestation and the universe of course; that when you get to that level and perceive them like a pro with the divine senses from that level you may notice it golden. Until then, so is sambogakaya too, objectively colorless although with nothing manifested.

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, EmeraldHead said:

I think both are right. Like what is the colour of chi? ...

 

In it's true objective nature yes. But subjectively many buddhists refer to sambogakaya transmissions or white light of sambogakaya in meditation. Similarly there are unique qi like energies to dharmakaya, beyond manifestation and the universe of course; that when you get to that level and perceive them like a pro with the divine senses from that level you may notice it golden. Until then, so is sambogakaya too, objectively colorless although with nothing manifested.

 

This is an important point if there is any interest in the dzogchen view so I hope y’all don’t mind if I throw out some more thoughts on the matter... or lack thereof.

🧐

 

All three enlightened bodies remain inseparable of course, but the very definition of dharmakaya precludes imputing any defined attributes to it. All dharmakaya really means is the empty and unbounded essence of being, empty of any attributes whatsoever. Sambhogakaya refers to the self-aware or clarity aspect, and the union of the two has the potential to manifest anything and everything - all colors, all visions and sensory experience, usually referred to in the dzogchen teachings as sounds, lights, and rays. Nirmanakaya refers to the physical manifestation aspect.

 

The empty aspect, dharmakaya, is not beyond manifestation or the universe or even the smallest atom. It is the empty essence of all things and is never a hair apart from anyone or anything. That’s what the thodgal teachings are for, in part. To experience the empty aspect of the three visions and to see how the visions are not related to the senses but rather the self-aware or rigpa aspect. Perhaps that could be referred to as divine senses, a nice nomenclature, though not one I’ve heard used in the dzogchen context, more from the tantric teachings.

[EmeraldHead]

12 hours ago, steve said:

This is an important point if there is any interest in the dzogchen view so I hope y’all don’t mind if I throw out some more thoughts on the matter... or lack thereof.

Appreciate the intrusion Who here has read al the sanskrit text available to the public? All the japanese texts, all the pali texts, all the tamil texts, all the hebrew and aramaic texts, etc etc

Knowledge is always worth it.

13 hours ago, steve said:

All three enlightened bodies remain inseparable of course, but the very definition of dharmakaya precludes imputing any defined attributes to it

That is what my definition is based on.

 

Just like the Nirmanakaya has a brain and eyes and you kind of stare at the room in front of your as the viewer as well as the experiencer, so like that is the Dharmakaya.....it's a KAYA as well....it's not something non understandable, to me. Although yes, it's nature in ALL Aspects is nothing like samsara and nirvana.

 

And anyway, if we're talking about the colour of those QIs or better said, BREATHS, we're implying POV from inner divine sight which is only one sense or one aspect of that reality anyway

[EmeraldHead]

And I say this because buddhists too talk about Sambogakaya forms of evocation or meeting higher beings. As as well Sambogakaya and Dharmakaya transmissions. So yes, to me Dharmakaya too has some sort of QI/BREATH/ENERGY to it that VOLITAZES your experience there. And it boosts other SENSES separate from the 6 consciousnesses of the Nirmanakaya/BODY. edit: separate, altough they may be merged in a|for a seamless experience/being/reality.

Edited August 13, 2020 by EmeraldHead