It is known

[Taomeow]

This Cryptomeria, known in Japan as Jomon Sugi, is one of the oldest living trees in the world -- its age is over 7,000 years.  It is 83 feet high and still growing.  For those who want to see it, it's a 10-hour hike into the depth of the Yakushima National Park.   I wonder what Longmen tree qigong with it would feel like...    

 

 

[liminal_luke]

7 hours ago, Indiken said:

 

your intellectuality tries to compensate something

 

 

Hi Indiken,

 

May I offer you a suggestion?  It´s rarely useful to offer your take on the personality flaws of your fellow Bums.  If you read enough of my posts you´ll likely notice negative things you could point out about me.  You might well be right too.  But please don´t, OK?  If we were close personal friends I might -- emphasis on the might -- be open to your feedback.  From someone on the internet it´s almost a 100% certainty I won´t be listening.  

 

I mention this because I think you´re hoping to find a supportive community here and nurture friendships with people who will be able to offer guidance and comaraderie as you grow in your spiritual practice.  That´s what most of us want, certainly what I want.  Comments like the above are more likely to create hostility than foster relationships.  If you don´t find a particular thread useful or enjoy the contributions of a particular Bum, best just to move on and find what you do like.

 

I offer this suggestion knowing you might not be open to it.  If you think I´m being critical you´ll probably shut me down right away.  LIke I say, that´s what people normally do.  Touche!  I´ll be off and take a swig of my own medicine now.  

 

Luke

Edited April 19, 2021 by liminal_luke

[Master Logray]

On 3/29/2021 at 1:31 AM, Taomeow said:

Doctors started prescribing thalidomide in 1956.  It was marketed as absolutely safe with no side effects.  The first doctors who tried reporting side effects -- neurological disorders in some of their patients -- were ignored.  The vast majority had neither the data nor any incentives to report anything or to put two and two together.  A later estimate, of only the reported cases, which typically constitute about 1% of all actual adverse events, confirmed  40,000 cases of peripheral neuropathy. 

 

The first batch of side effects to finally get noticed five years later, in 1961, caused two and two to be put together only because it was much too visible to the naked eye and much harder to pretend didn't exist.   In this respect only, thalidomide was a very atypical story -- in a typical case, no one can prove shit.     

  

12,000 children were born without limbs and/or with other (massive) developmental abnormalities.  Only 5,000 of them proceeded to survive their childhood.  These "side effects" took place even if the pregnant woman had only ingested 1 prescribed pill -- it was enough to disrupt the blood supply to the fetus, resulting in severe morbidities.  

 

 

In Taoist world, the good and the bad cannot be easily seen, even after many years.  After 40 years, Thalidomide is used to fight Multiple Myeloma, a kind of blood cancer and some other diseases.  It has helped in developing a new class of medicines called immunomodulator , both by following Thalidomide line, and medicine companies restudy other old medications to see if any new applications possible.  Lives are saved.   

 

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

 

In Taoist world, the good and the bad cannot be easily seen, even after many years.  After 40 years, Thalidomide is used to fight Multiple Myeloma, a kind of blood cancer and some other diseases.  It has helped in developing a new class of medicines called immunomodulator , both by following Thalidomide line, and medicine companies restudy other old medications to see if any new applications possible.  Lives are saved.   

 

 

Yes, studying a new drug for 40 years before prescribing it to whoever with assertions that it is safe is, quite possibly,  good.  Making such assertions with no long-term (or, in this case, any, in the target group of pregnant women) studies and/or data gathering and analysis at all is, quite possibly, terrible. 

 

Contrary to popular belief, taoism is not big on moral relativism.  The "good" and "bad" of taoism may not be formulated in the same terms as those of Christianity or Islam or Buddhism, but our proprietary notions of "lucky" and "unlucky," "auspicious" and "inauspicious," "shen qi" and "sha' qi" etc. are, if anything, designed to distinguish "moral" from "immoral" and "good" from "bad" with more pragmatic accuracy and attention to the very details that are where tao is -- or isn't. 

 

Thalidomide is not efficient in this new capacity, by the way, as further experience with it showed.  5-year survival of multiple myeloma patients showed no difference whatsoever between groups of patients treated vs. not treated with thalidomide.   

 

https://news.cancerconnect.com/multiple-myeloma/thalidomide-not-associated-with-survival-improvement-in-multiple-myeloma-JwCPLr8yx0We4VgEyqoDUQ

 

So over the past 40 years its status changed from child killer/mutilator to false hope bringer to dud.  I'd say that's an improvement...  not enough of an improvement to justify the killings and mutilations though if you ask me.  

Edited April 19, 2021 by Taomeow

[Indiken]

.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Indiken

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Indiken said:

 

it is my understanding that Taomeow offered an exchange of perspectives when, i think, i was called a motherfucker in my thread because of my personal experiences with the forum

 

You were not.  It was an old joke (which a few people have found hilarious over the years, me included) that had no attribution to anyone and was brought up because I found it rhythmically in tune with what the poster I was commenting on (not you) contributed, and aimed to add a lighter note to his (IMO correct) observation, also of a general nature. 

 

If your goal intruding on my thread with your...   er...  remarks was some sort of retaliation in response to a word that triggered you that had, however, nothing whatsoever to do with you, it was misplaced and misconstrued.   Hope this settles it and you can leave my thread in peace.  I will definitely reciprocate and give yours the widest berth.  Promise.   

Edited April 19, 2021 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

It takes a special and strong-minded kind of coincidence theorist, after hitting their thumb with an eight-pound hammer, to jump up and down with their hand clasped under their other armpit and shout, “Oh, random-fluctuations-in-the-space-time-continuum!” 

[liminal_luke]

...

Edited April 24, 2021 by liminal_luke

[Taomeow]

Another junk-scientific lie we've been fed for so long about the "naturalness" of social hierarchy with alpha, beta etc. animals arranged in a "pecking order" debunked.  This time it's wolves.  The lie we've been told about their behavior in the wild is based on their behavior in captivity.  Rings many bells.  I'm sure it's exactly the same with "human nature" -- all our models are based on the behavior of captivity-conditioned humans, and real humans are nothing like that.  Not even close. 

 

https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-dont-alpha-males-females.html?utm_source=DamnInteresting&fbclid=IwAR2zADO6Z0i7KTSLkpQjTKi9v9fbxQMVOnxy44jXZjIepYim9FLCmUw9fzo

 

  

[natural]

Sadly the only wolves I have observed were in captivity.

Two separate groups of mixed grey wolves and hybrids in a private sanctuary  Pennsylvania.

And a captive pair of red wolves in a Gov. facility in North Carolina.

Both encounters made me sad.

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, natural said:

Sadly the only wolves I have observed were in captivity.

Two separate groups of mixed grey wolves and hybrids in a private sanctuary  Pennsylvania.

And a captive pair of red wolves in a Gov. facility in North Carolina.

Both encounters made me sad.

 

I also only saw wolves in captivity, alas.  Beyond sad -- I always feel heartbroken when I see animals in cages, and the wolves I saw in a zoo in New Jersey were also kept in a ridiculously small enclosure.  Two came to the fence and looked me right in the eye.  Those eyes haunted me for a long time.       

[natural]

I can no longer do zoo's.

I stopped going almost 50 years ago.

Broke my heart, to many times..

I am always interested in the underdog so to speak...

And visit elder care, hospice and animal rehab as often as my heart and courage allow.

[Taomeow]

40 minutes ago, natural said:

I can no longer do zoo's.

I stopped going almost 50 years ago.

Broke my heart, to many times..

I am always interested in the underdog so to speak...

And visit elder care, hospice and animal rehab as often as my heart and courage allow.

 

I don't do zoos either.  Last visit, almost 20 years ago, was a mistake.  Never again.  

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, natural said:

I can no longer do zoo's.

I stopped going almost 50 years ago.

Broke my heart, to many times..

I am always interested in the underdog so to speak...

And visit elder care, hospice and animal rehab as often as my heart and courage allow.

 

I have  never met anyone before that  swapped  their zoo visits   to  elder care visits .

 

Do you take   popcorn ? 

 

 

( Not to feed them with , of course .   For  you to throw at them  ;  " Oi ,  wake up and do something  . "  )

[silent thunder]

Zoos are disgusting to me.  Nauseating business.

[escott]

I have young children. I've been to the zoo several times in recent years taking kids to various events, like friend's birthday parties. I always leave feeling drained. I can see the sadness in the animals' eyes. Why can't everyone see it? Can only people who understand the nature of consciousness see it? You would think that anyone who has a dog as part of their family would sense it.

[Taomeow]

22 minutes ago, escott said:

I have young children. I've been to the zoo several times in recent years taking kids to various events, like friend's birthday parties. I always leave feeling drained. I can see the sadness in the animals' eyes. Why can't everyone see it? Can only people who understand the nature of consciousness see it? You would think that anyone who has a dog as part of their family would sense it.

 

I stopped marveling at things people don't see, don't understand, don't feel, at all the dots they can't connect, at the bullshit they buy wholesale...  These days I marvel at people who see, understand, feel, connect the dots, don't buy the bullshit.  Hey you I want to shout out to them, greetings, earthling, you're alive.  It's a miracle.

 

Sometimes something happens that changes someone and whatever it is is a miracle...  I remember, a number of years ago, witnessing a discussion regarding the pros and cons of marijuana.  Most people, at the time, still believed it's a dangerous drug, and the discussion was leaning in that direction.  Then one woman wrote that she tried it for the first time before going to the circus that had animal performances, and that her experience was horrible.  She used to love watching circus animals do tricks.  This time a different kind of vision kicked in, and she saw the suffering and abuse -- felt it -- the horrible pain and hopelessness and helplessness -- she was watching a performance with elephants, and all of a sudden knew what it's like, this trampled majestic wisdom and power enslaved by pure evil, perceived by spectators as cuteness and fun and entertainment.  She said once was enough -- once you see it, you can't unsee it.  

 

    

[Nungali]

Yet, when respected and left in their natural position, they can perform magnificent 'feats'  in willing concert with humans in activities that help humans .

 

In this case  - orca  and humans hunting whales together . But the cruelty and stupid recklessness of modern man has now ruined  this arrangement , that appears  to have gone back to the ice age .

 

 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_South_Wales

 

 

 

[Nungali]

Let it be known that I have become flabergastrated , yet again and moreso than ever .

 

peeps just wanna keep doing the wrong thing    Even though they knew it was wrong , incomplete, corrupted . They wanted to get back to the original , so i showed them what it was ( proving to their satisfaction that I did know what I was talking about ) , but ... no comment ,  just some side comments about other minor things I mentioned  .  They said yes that is probably it but then continued practising  what they know to be wrong , incomplete, corrupted .

 

Poor people , I guess they just cant help it .    so much so,  it urks me , I guess  I will have to leave them to their own stupid devices .

 

 

 

 

 

 

' Oh dear ,   I told you not to do that - now you have gone and cut your hand off . '

Edited May 6, 2021 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

Let it be known that I have become flabergastrated , yet again and moreso than ever .

 

peeps just wanna keep doing the wrong thing    Even though they knew it was wrong , incomplete, corrupted . They wanted to get back to the original , so i showed them what it was ( proving to their satisfaction that I did know what I was talking about ) , but ... no comment ,  just some side comments about other minor things I mentioned  .  They said yes that is probably it but then continued practising  what they know to be wrong , incomplete, corrupted .

 

Poor people , I guess they just cant help it .    so much so,  it urks me , I guess  I will have to leave them to their own stupid devices .

 

 

 

 

 

 

' Oh dear ,   I told you not to do that - now you have gone and cut your hand off . '

 

I don't know if we are flabbergasted about the same things, but let it be known that I am too, and yet again and more than ever.  

 

And I shudder when I think of how much more flabbergasted I have a good chance to be a few months from now, a year from now.  I don't expect not to be.  

Edited May 7, 2021 by Taomeow

[silent thunder]

I've ceased participating in any form of news broadcasting directly again and instead, just deal with the filtered versions that arise in conversations with work mates.  These will end in another week or so when our show officially wraps, but in the meantime... any bits that make it to me, just cause me to shake my head and say fuck, fuck, fuck as my worst suspicions begin to pale compared to what is actually playing out... and the implications of what may yet come.

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I don't know if we are flabbergasted about the same things, but let it be known that I am too, and yet again and more than ever.  

 

And I shudder when I think of how much more flabbergasted I have a good chance to be a few months from now, a year from now.  I don't expect not to be.  

 

 

I expect  'not to be '    ( here )  in the near future  .  In fact, I dont even know why I am still here    .

 

I am grateful for the wonderful life I have had  .... and even more grateful  that it was in the time and place it was  , but that 'time' is ending and going into 'new times' .    By the time that is in full swing , I definitely will not be here .   I am thankful for that .

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

I expect  'not to be '    ( here )  in the near future  .  In fact, I dont even know why I am still here    .

 

I am grateful for the wonderful life I have had  .... and even more grateful  that it was in the time and place it was  , but that 'time' is ending and going into 'new times' .    By the time that is in full swing , I definitely will not be here .   I am thankful for that .

 

 

 

 

It's great that you evaluate your life this way.  Not everyone -- it is known -- has had a wonderful life, and not everyone of those who did realized they did, and not everyone of those who didn't realized they didn't.

 

Me, I'm a taoist with some shamanic gigs on the side, and it means ready for most (not all of course, I'm not a comics style invincible superhero) scenarios.  I might "not be here" in the next minute, or I can not only survive the next minute but eventually find out if immortality is all it's cracked up to be.  Taoists have options.  

 

Still, to spend a lifetime watching every single dream of humanity, every hope, every starry-eyed expectation turn to smart toxic dust for the vast majority of people who once had those dreams, hopes, expectations -- many working their fingers to the bone toward actually getting there -- 

is not something I could ignore in the overall balance of things even if my personal situation was among the luckiest.  Which of course my bazi told me long ago is not a reasonable expectation, from the taoist-scientific POV.  So, it is what it is is it then.  I don't particularly disown my regrets, I don't treat them as favorite pets but I realize they are my very own to the same extent my luckiest no-regrets decisions and solutions are.  I know that most of the time, at a turn after turn, a bifurcation after bifurcation, I had to choose my options out of a total of one...  so in a sense it's all the same.  Written in the stars.  But I still plan to try to choose the right one if I can -- whenever there's a total of two or more to choose from.  The rest is up to the tianzun.          

[Taomeow]

.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]