Are there evil master?

[Scholar]

Im not talking about the pedo priest or the kung fu scammer, Im talking about people that actually posses giant amounts of spiritual powers and uses it for the evil ? Is there such a thing ? Or evil people lack the work ethic to get to this level?

[RiverSnake]

Life is not so simple. Drop morality. Observe how nature flows. 

[welkin]

16 hours ago, Scholar said:

Im not talking about the pedo priest or the kung fu scammer, Im talking about people that actually posses giant amounts of spiritual powers and uses it for the evil ? Is there such a thing ? Or evil people lack the work ethic to get to this level?

 

The irony is in whom you're asking

[helpfuldemon]

If you believe in Good and Evil then yes, there are Evil Masters.  If you think life is just a series of events that are cause effect or determined by animal law, then no.

[thelerner]

18 hours ago, Scholar said:

Im not talking about the pedo priest or the kung fu scammer, Im talking about people that actually posses giant amounts of spiritual powers and uses it for the evil ? Is there such a thing ? Or evil people lack the work ethic to get to this level?

We want there to be, because that'd make life easier to explain.  Real easy, bad things aren't our fault, its there's.  The problem is, the further outside you put the problem, the less real power you have to solve it.  Diseases, poverty.. caused by witches, or that group over there.  It plays to our fears and prejudices.  A source of power for the most abusive. 

 

An Evil master is not my paradigm.  I don't think it's needed to explain the world.  There are competing interests, limited resources.  Fear, greed and ignorance, forces within all of us, that make the world run the way it does.   Your bad/evil leader may be no different then your bad/evil shopkeeper, though he has more power, in this case to do bad things on a bigger scale.  Thats not to forget there's much good out there, often overlooked.  But burning things down is easier then building them.

 

The man who read and destroyed Hitlers diary found he thought of himself as an idealist.  Rationalizing all his evils as ends to a means. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by thelerner

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Scholar said:

Im not talking about the pedo priest or the kung fu scammer, Im talking about people that actually posses giant amounts of spiritual powers and uses it for the evil ? Is there such a thing ? Or evil people lack the work ethic to get to this level?

 

I am not sure what 'spiritual power'  is , isnt it the power to do good ?

 

If so then maybe you are right in that  ;  "  evil people lack the work ethic to get to this level" 

 

 

[SongShuhang]

23 hours ago, Scholar said:

Im not talking about the pedo priest or the kung fu scammer, Im talking about people that actually posses giant amounts of spiritual powers and uses it for the evil ? Is there such a thing ? Or evil people lack the work ethic to get to this level?

 

Evil is very subjective.

 

Is it evil when you eat chicken? Did you ask chicken what she/he thinks of you eating its body?

 

What if someone eats you? Is it evil? Do you think with are completely different beings while having such body structure as animals, bones, blood, kidneys, heart and so on.

 

In the conditional reality of your mind made by societial delusions, probably every single high level master will be an embodiment of Evil, as they break laws of the universe and bend the world to their will.

 

Is car evil when it rides somewhere, and kills insects under its wheel?

[old3bob]

evil is willful diabolical ego and malice opposing Dharma...such ego can steal, hold and (edit) use a great deal of energy in corrupt ways to increase its dark self while harming or destroying innocents (who loose their protection) or fools (who think they know better)  in denial of such devouring hunger...that's a heads up folks!

 

Btw, I'd add that taking a transcendental, "beyond it all" attitude does nothing for the Dharma's and karma's in the three worlds (or multi-verse if you prefer) that require our work personally and collectively.   

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by old3bob

[freeform]

Obviously good and evil are very black and white and overly simplistic.

 

But yes. It’s certainly possible for malevolent people to build great internal power.

But that’s not the only issue...

 

There’s this Nietzschean idea that most of our morality is based on fear. Most people think they’re good - but they’re only really ‘good’ because of social pressure - because they’ve never been in a position where their real internal moral compass is tested. We’re just afraid of doing ‘bad’ because we’ll be punished (by God, but ones parents, by the law/police)... And in that way you can’t know whether you’re a virtuous person. We only do ‘good’ because most of everything in our society nudges is in that direction.

 

So in this way sometimes when a person gains some freedom and power through internal practice, they discover all these subtle very selfish (if not malevolent) aspects within themselves... and if your path doesn’t teach you how to transform your nature - or at least abide strictly by a moral code - then it’s possible to let these malevolent, selfish aspects run the show... And so in this way internal practice can actually produce a malevolent action...

[old3bob]

we could qualify that further by saying "internal practice" gone wrong,  there is also that the old but true saying of  the higher one climbs the further they can fall...  (thus the internal test that can have external consequences)

[welkin]

On 7/5/2020 at 7:11 PM, Scholar said:

Im not talking about the pedo priest or the kung fu scammer, Im talking about people that actually posses giant amounts of spiritual powers and uses it for the evil ? Is there such a thing ? Or evil people lack the work ethic to get to this level?

 

It's actually much more simple than you 'think.' the more you philosophize about it, the more you allow 'evil' to run its course. if you have eyes to see and ears to hear, that's all you need. You'll realize you were already perfect at birth, until evil got into your head. You will have eventually been able to make every right decision as you made mistakes, grew older, and matured your inner child. Unfortunately, it is presently no so. Evil is that which is unnatural and is existing in this current world. However, unfortunately for 'it', it's time will soon come to an end.

[helpfuldemon]

Evil is natural to this sensual world.  Thanks to lust and hunger, we have Evil actions.  Ive watched children attack each other at the age of 2 for no apparent reason, its instinctual.  How many of us can say we never stole?  We want stuff and there are ways to get it that arent legal.  Nietzsche was right, but that doesnt mean that we cannot train it out of ourselves, though when you drain your lust, passion and hunger you might find yourself weaker and loving less (feeling love, not being love).  At the height of the mind comes the true will to do what is right, but it is not the Will that we are used to, its the Will of intelligence.  Evil is everywhere.

Edited July 7, 2020 by helpfuldemon

[welkin]

evil is not the actions. evil is the reaction and perspectives to both our own actions and the actions done to us. Reactions and perspectives created for us, not from our own enlightened created processing of it. at the height of mind is the high processing of everything that was influenced upon your consciousness. The will of intelligence is the will that was thrust upon your mind. At the height of consciousness comes the true will to do what is right. The height of consciousness is the ability to differentiate between mind and conscious awareness. At the height of consciousness is where you've felt you know nothing, and the moment you feel it, you know much more.

[EmeraldHead]

Bad is not Evil. Cosmically Evil is. Humanity is good and bad for both are good. Good and evil are not sides you just change...most bad you see in the ....excuse me, all the bad 99.9% of people directly see in their lives is that meme going around on social media lately "childhood trauma, bad upbringing, etc". A virtuous man will become a strong good man in the face of stress. Similarly an Evil existence will become strong in the face of stress. Bad is Good.

Our whole education system and society teaches us rules. Because bad cannot be controlled. But good can be controlled. However they are the same innocent desire and love for life. Both Batman and Joker think they are doing the right thing and support their own ideals. How is that Evil? It is not. Evil is then used in a childish manner to express emotions of hurt against people who have hurt you. Mothers in Rwanda are now neighbours with people who killed their children during the genocide. [Because of the housing and community building schemes and campaigns in place] They have essentially forgiven them. Both the mothers and the men are Good. Both have or had bad thoughts. But not Evil.

Bad can scale up but it does evolve into Evil because fundamentally they are different.

Edited July 7, 2020 by EmeraldHead

[SirPalomides]

The problem of evil is an intractable problem that every religion and philosophy has had to address. I am confident though that we can settle it definitively in this thread  Some explanations are more helpful than others but I have yet to see one that is airtight. The one I find most useful is the Platonic understanding of evil as having no substance of its own- it is just a privation or distortion of the good. All evil events and acts are ultimately misdirected attempts to reach the good, pulled astray by ignorance, weakness, etc.

[liminal_luke]

Evil masters exist but I don´t pay ´em no mind.

[welkin]

"i think therefore i am" said the evil polar bear.

 

Imagine, if one were taught nothing through words. One's idea of evil might be more clear.

[helpfuldemon]

Evil has a definition.  Evil is that which opposes or harms, and Good is that which aids or heals.  You can say that "action is not Evil" but that is untrue from the use of the definition of the word.  Actions are just actions, it is true, and yes, it is our perception of them which defines it- but that is true of all understanding.  Actions have a result, and we choose to react to it as good or bad.  Its intrinsic in the nature of our use of the words good and evil.  You can turn the meaning of intelligence into conscious awareness if you like, but I am fine with the old definition that intelligence means understanding.  I dont presume that people are unenlightened and acting ignorantly with their Will, though this might be true, the definition of Good and Evil does not falter- it is their interpretation that falters.  It just means they are not acting intelligently. 

 

Nietzsche makes the point that Evil is not always bad, that it sometimes results in making people stronger, or more inventive.  This might be true as well, but that does not mean it is not Evil.  

[welkin]

Evil and good transcend time and action. It isn't linear. It can't be understood with the mind. Because the mind can only perceive actions within the construct of time, even though infinity is simultaneously existing with time. An evil action today might be a good action tomorrow, and vice versa. that is why unless one has gone past that level of 'thinking' or better yet understanding, then one can legitimately say one understands what it 'looks' like, feels like. And even though what i say has gotten to that level of complexity (or not), it also exists in the most simple of understandings. Greed is evil. And the mind will automatically create multiple philosophical points of views around it. Why? Because it's been programmed already. Want to know what greed is? Die, don't exist, and it will be as simple as how good water tastes when thirsty.

 

And yet one may be wondering, just how many evil people are there really? Very few. Because most actions are not known consciously. Yet the actions themselves are evil. Like a seed or a virus implanted in every single person acting out on its own, unless or until one becomes aware that it exists. Which is nearly impossible.. However, once it is known consciously, just as free will may still exist (not sure), one may have the responsibility to not perform those actions anymore. If done, then the person might be called 'evil'. Greed travels far and wide in almost every action or thought. So much so, we killed/crucified simple men who revealed simple yet Godly truths.

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by welkin

[helpfuldemon]

See, I dont think greed is Evil, though I think in the name of greed, Evil can be done.  I dont think lust, gluttony, sloth, vanity is Evil either- but again, in the name of these "sins", Evil can be done.

 

Evil is opposition or harm, harm to another persons health, wealth, property and contractual arrangements.  Good is helping in these areas.  Its that simple, no sins to worry about other than the sin of harming these things, or standing in the way of a persons rights to acquire them.

[helpfuldemon]

God gave us all the impulses and opportunities that we possess, even the evil ones.  Its up to us to decide what is right and wrong.

[welkin]

i agree, i don't think those things are evil either. But i still believe that greed is evil. The only reason some may disagree between each other is because of one, the limiting factor of words and two, it would depend on what is considered as greed. There's actually no such thing as good. But there is just and 'right'. Good is the creation as a result of evil from which duality is created at least on this material plain. At the end of the day fewer than many are evil, because they are not aware, which is why one forgives. And yet, forgiveness is the  fume that furthers that evil, because ignorance is the very thing they tried to escape and would never be willing to accept. And so goes the domino effect that becomes difficult to identify.

 

5 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

God gave us all the impulses and opportunities that we possess, even the evil ones.  Its up to us to decide what is right and wrong.

 

Agreed. Yet compassion is more important during a time where it is easier to have the decision made for us.

[helpfuldemon]

There is no duality, you can have good without evil.  We only compare the two because they are opposites.  They arent reliant upon one another to reach understanding.

[Earl Grey]

Why, then 'tis none to you; for there is nothing either
good or bad but thinking makes it so. To me it is a prison. - William Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2

[welkin]

And so the spider's web is created and a never ending loop is formed. Those with eyes to see will see and those who have ears to hear will hear. Plural

 

Imagine a manipulated gene for thousands of years. Are you you? or are you it? If you are it and that makes you you, then it is what it is.

Edited July 7, 2020 by welkin