Talk to me about your heart

[helpfuldemon]

Tell me about your heart.  Is it filled with lust?  Or pride?  Do you have dreams to chase, or are you simply living to be alive, or are you waiting to die?  Why do you persist?  What do you want to see happen?  Talk to me...

[helpfuldemon]

Ill go first.  My heart is filled with benevolence.  I want nothing but happiness and prosperity for people.  I also pray that all people find the mind to do what is just.  

 

My heart has had more than its share of sorrow and joy, and at times it has been proud and lustful.  I am not those things now, as I have reconciled myself with life.  I understand the story of life, I see what it is with a clear mind.  

[welkin]

my heart is filled with anger and vengeance. i want nothing more than to obliterate the evil that exists in this world. I want to gut the people who want pigs live in their own shit. i want the sun to send a laser beam and pierce through every shadow that hides during the night and unnatural light hiding during the day. I want robots or immortals who think they're going to live forever and put them into a simulation where all they experience is equality and happiness, where the farthest they can discover on the inside is a glimpse of a massive void.

 

Actually. what i truly mean is... all i want is love for all.

[helpfuldemon]

I wish I was filled with anger and vengeance.  Ive been thinking about law and justice lately and while I think I have it sorted out, I cant say I experience any kind of injustice, except maybe in the light of not being befriended by the world, which is, naturally, the way the world is.  I guess you could say I want love for all too, but that isnt the case and since its not the case, I give up.  I have to submit to liberty, and letting people choose who they love, and what they want to do with their lives- im no tyrant.  Ive submitted to the world, probably a little too much, having submitted to the fact that there will be war and murder and bigotry and discrimination and prejudice forever.  Can we curb it?  We can try, but I think its inherent in our condition and until we all have the same education, wealth and opportunity, it will always be divisive.  We should all know better, but somehow we dont, at least that is what the media leads us to believe, and the actions of people can back that up sometimes.  On the ground, things are mostly fine- except as I mentioned, people choosing who they want to love and rejecting or ignoring those they dont.

[welkin]

you are filled with anger and vengeance. it's just being pressured. OH YES ANAKIN COME TO THE DARK SIDE. MAYBE THAT'S NOT THE DARK SIDE. imagine that love is exactly the form of manipulation that prevents change. Because love is a word. and words don't necessarily need to describe energies or actions. so to hell with love i say. i have s fire in me burning so hot like a volcano ready to explode. imagine your whole life reincarnation after reincarnation, manipulated. imagine an entire world of that for 99.999999% of individuals. And what's the answer? love. Fuck no it's not. It's we can have love after we destroy all the bullshit that's ever existed. Eviiiiiiiillllll. So no love right now. only fire, wrath. i'm not being serious with what im' saying but i'm not joking either. we're all demons until we realize we're angels

[idiot_stimpy]

4 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Ill go first.  My heart is filled with benevolence.  I want nothing but happiness and prosperity for people.  I also pray that all people find the mind to do what is just.  

 

My heart has had more than its share of sorrow and joy, and at times it has been proud and lustful.  I am not those things now, as I have reconciled myself with life.  I understand the story of life, I see what it is with a clear mind.  

 

Sounds like you're perfect.

 

My question is, are you perfect?

[Cleansox]

5 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I wish I was filled with anger and vengeance. 

Maybe you just lack power? 

 

It is easy to hide in love and benevolence if one lack power, because one realise that without the power to do, passivity is the only option left. 

 

This is testable: Learn a combat effective martial art, and see what happens inside. 😁 

[Cleansox]

5 hours ago, welkin said:

 we're all demons until we realize we're angels

And then we kill the angels and realise we are true human beings. 

[helpfuldemon]

4 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

Sounds like you're perfect.

 

My question is, are you perfect?

That depends on who is assessing my perfection.  If I am the only judge of it, Id say that I lack certain skills that are required in this life, but that my overall perspective is perfectly in line with todays world.  However, todays world is not perfect in accordance with my vision of a perfect world.

[helpfuldemon]

2 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Maybe you just lack power? 

 

It is easy to hide in love and benevolence if one lack power, because one realise that without the power to do, passivity is the only option left. 

 

This is testable: Learn a combat effective martial art, and see what happens inside. 😁 

 

While I would normally disagree that it is the lack of power that creates benevolence, in my case it is true that I lack power, but that isnt why I am benevolent.  I dont think that power means you have ill will, I think ill will is from a lack of power a lot of times.  The only time power should mean ill will is from the need for righteousness and justice.  Im sure there are stories of this not being the case, however.

[Cleansox]

11 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

 

While I would normally disagree that it is the lack of power that creates benevolence, 

I believe that with power you can relax into benevolence, while without pover one can use it as a mask. 

So on the surface the same, but it can root in different states. 

 

If I recall right, the character "de" in Dao De Jing can be translated as both power and virtue, and if so, that would be somewhere in line with my thought. 

[welkin]

8 hours ago, Cleansox said:

And then we kill the angels and realise we are true human beings. 

 

you'll realize you're a true human being in less than 4 years, when  you're no longer here. better yet, you'll realize you were never human to begin with when you have no possibility of returning.

 

bet me, and then remember this message by 2024

Edited July 12, 2020 by welkin

[welkin]

8 hours ago, Cleansox said:

 

This is testable: Learn a combat effective martial art, and see what happens inside. 😁 

 

go fight someone with a gun or who knows mma. stop fooling yourself

[Earl Grey]

8 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Maybe you just lack power? 

 

It is easy to hide in love and benevolence if one lack power, because one realise that without the power to do, passivity is the only option left. 

 

This is testable: Learn a combat effective martial art, and see what happens inside. 😁 

 

I can vouch for this. In the beginning, it feels great, but later on, it feels hollow, then later on, it goes from combat style or sport and then becomes martial art. 

 

As an outlet for my aggression to turning my body and emotions into a canvas, it made me a lot more peaceful, but confident. Being confident and strict does not equate to violence though. 

 

My teacher said the power one gets from Xin Yi in our school has constantly been compared to being like the titular One Punch Man who just doesn't care about fighting or showing off anymore. Besides: everything can be resolved even long before words are even spoken, and words spoken can defuse any conflict.

 

I went from aggression to power in my fists to discovering how to be a verbal judoka, and will eventually probably find myself being as playful as my cuddly dogs and cats instead, who use affection and love if they want food or attention instead of threatening me to feed them or rub their tummies. 

[helpfuldemon]

I have to admit that my benevolence doesnt extend outwardly in a way that it could.  I wish people well, but I am not overtly friendly and kind to people I do not know.  With people I know, I am more actively kind.

[welkin]

49 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

I have to admit that my benevolence doesnt extend outwardly in a way that it could.  I wish people well, but I am not overtly friendly and kind to people I do not know.  With people I know, I am more actively kind.

 

yes, but your intention is to be kind. Why you aren't in certain situations is a journey within of itself, that may not even be your fault. And yet the only one who can judge your inner intention is God. And yet God can also be within oneself. Does every one deserve to have benevolence shown to them? Yes? Then why hasn't benevolence shown itself to everyone and everything? because those whom are benevolent would lack benevolence the moment it is given to anyone at any one moment. and yet benevolence is also eternal.

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

39 minutes ago, welkin said:

 

yes, but your intention is to be kind. Why you aren't in certain situations is a journey within of itself, that may not even be your fault. And yet the only one who can judge your inner intention is God. And yet God can also be within oneself. Does every one deserve to have benevolence shown to them? Yes? Then why hasn't benevolence shown itself to everyone and everything? because those whom are benevolent would lack benevolence the moment it is given to anyone at any one moment. and yet benevolence is also eternal.

 

 

 

Theres a lot of reasons why benevolence isnt shown to everyone.  First you have the random Will of people to do harmful or disruptive things, things that people fear and dont want to be exposed to.  Once someone does something harmful or disruptive, a prejudice is formed against people, especially of that type of whom caused the offence, hence you have bigotry and racism and discrimination.  

 

Another reason why it doesnt happen is because people have the liberty to pick who they want to interact with.  I know this sounds obvious, but choice is probably half the reason why people dont extend good will and kindness, also being affected by the previous statement.  I used to befriend everyone, until I got sick- and then the sickness made me bedridden and I stopped taking care of myself, lost a lot of my teeth and put on a ton of weight, can no longer appear attractive.  Now it seems that no one wants to befriend me, and Im too exhausted by my illness to befriend many.  What I found was that I met a lot of people of varied levels of intention, education and wildness and mildness- but since I wasnt actively taking control of who I interacted with, I wound up with people with addiction issues and generally bad dispositions on life and people.  Perhaps all people fall under the latter category, and it takes getting to know them to reveal it.

[welkin]

5 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

 

Theres a lot of reasons why benevolence isnt shown to everyone.  First you have the random Will of people to do harmful or disruptive things, things that people fear and dont want to be exposed to.  Once someone does something harmful or disruptive, a prejudice is formed against people, especially of that type of whom caused the offence, hence you have bigotry and racism and discrimination.  

 

Another reason why it doesnt happen is because people have the liberty to pick who they want to interact with.  I know this sounds obvious, but choice is probably half the reason why people dont extend good will and kindness, also being affected by the previous statement.  I used to befriend everyone, until I got sick- and then the sickness made me bedridden and I stopped taking care of myself, lost a lot of my teeth and put on a ton of weight, can no longer appear attractive.  Now it seems that no one wants to befriend me, and Im too exhausted by my illness to befriend many.  What I found was that I met a lot of people of varied levels of intention, education and wildness and mildness- but since I wasnt actively taking control of who I interacted with, I wound up with people with addiction issues and generally bad dispositions on life and people.  Perhaps all people fall under the latter category, and it takes getting to know them to reveal it.

 

hmmmmm. to offend or not to offend. to counter or not to counter. to attract a counter or not to attract a counter from many. those are the questions. though i accept

 

is it prejudice or is it self protection? Not saying prejudice doesn't get created, but is it the core? Can the core be found down the line?

Is bigotry, racism, and discrimination automatic? Or is it the multitude of choices to continue on that path after the initial trauma?

 

is it their own liberty to pick? or is it the self protection. or the hate, which then becomes the continual choice to see only what their foggy eyes see.

 

Not everyone deserves your goodwill and befriending, because many are vampires only out to bleed you dry. Many developed individuals/vampires might i add. Goodwill and befriending can be in a myriad of forms, including not defending oneself in a way that would make another individual feel a certain way (if that makes sense).

 

WELL, seems to me you've been on the path of going from demon -> light. A real demon can't know what you are onto. That is why you chose to suffer this long and even still are. Because you were able to take it believe it or not.

 

So what now? are you on the path out of it? From what you mention, it seems that you're still suffering? Am i right?

 

 

[Daniel]

23 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Tell me about your heart.  Is it filled with lust?  Or pride?  Do you have dreams to chase, or are you simply living to be alive, or are you waiting to die?  Why do you persist?  What do you want to see happen?  Talk to me...

 

22 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Ill go first.  My heart is filled with benevolence.  I want nothing but happiness and prosperity for people.  I also pray that all people find the mind to do what is just.  

 

My heart has had more than its share of sorrow and joy, and at times it has been proud and lustful.  I am not those things now, as I have reconciled myself with life.  I understand the story of life, I see what it is with a clear mind.  

 

19 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

I wish I was filled with anger and vengeance.  Ive been thinking about law and justice lately and while I think I have it sorted out, I cant say I experience any kind of injustice, except maybe in the light of not being befriended by the world, which is, naturally, the way the world is.  I guess you could say I want love for all too, but that isnt the case and since its not the case, I give up.  I have to submit to liberty, and letting people choose who they love, and what they want to do with their lives- im no tyrant.  Ive submitted to the world, probably a little too much, having submitted to the fact that there will be war and murder and bigotry and discrimination and prejudice forever.  Can we curb it?  We can try, but I think its inherent in our condition and until we all have the same education, wealth and opportunity, it will always be divisive.  We should all know better, but somehow we dont, at least that is what the media leads us to believe, and the actions of people can back that up sometimes.  On the ground, things are mostly fine- except as I mentioned, people choosing who they want to love and rejecting or ignoring those they dont.

 

Hello @helpfuldemon,

 

You asked:

 

"Tell me about your heart.  Is it filled with lust?  Or pride?  Do you have dreams to chase, or are you simply living to be alive, or are you waiting to die?  Why do you persist?  What do you want to see happen?"

 

Answers:

 

"It's open and closed, full, and empty, all the time forever.  Yes, lust, yes pride, yes to all of it."

"Do I chase dreams, of course I do.  Am living simply to be alive?  Yes, in a manner of speaking.  I'm doing the best I can on very limited information. "

"Why do I persist?  Because it's what I was made to do.  And I do it well.  And I enjoy it."

"What do I want to see happen?  Each individual sentient being receiving what it wants and what it needs in perpetuity.  From everlasting, even to everlasting.  But what I want doesn't matter.  I didn't choose to be born, I am a limited created being."

 

You shared:

 

"My heart is filled with benevolence.  I want nothing but happiness and prosperity for people.  I also pray that all people find the mind to do what is just.'

 

My response:

 

If I maybe so bold, I noticed that here ^^ the focus shifted from 'heart' to 'mind'.  Was that intentional? 

 

You continued to share: { paraphrasing }

 

Thematically you're sharing your inner conflict on the cosmology of existence?  If so, maybe I can help, maybe not?

 

My response:

 

The root cause of the conflict is in the paradox, am I right?  The paradox is the obvious dual/polar nature of reality vs. the equally obvious non-dual ( neti-neti ) nature of reality.  Right?

 

It's not that different than the conflict between "heart" and "mind" that I referenced above.  In your post you mentioned wanting to love, and be loved, and to be just and do virtuous deeds { paraphrasing } but you feel like "why bother" if everything is unified and non-dual.  If...non-dual, why bother?  Right?

 

It's a common problem.  I've seen it many times in myself and in others who are inclined towards a non-dual Point Of View.   If the person with the non-dual POV wants to experience the full range of human emotions. love, wonder, excitement, anticipation, release, etc... they need to chose to be grounded, they need to choose to live in their heart.  If on the other hand, that specific individual wants to detach from the material world ( perhaps they are seeking Buddhist enlightenment ) , then my advice to that person is to close off their heart and live in their mind.

 

But most people don't want to choose one or the other, and that creates a paradox... but... it's *only* a paradox.  If the paradox remains unresolved, most people become slightly inclined towards nihilism ( aka 'why bother?'-ism )

 

Does that make sense.  If I'm right about all that... maybe I can help.  When you want to love and be loved, anchor yourself to the material world and feel it, experience it.  Go ahead and go for it. Ignore the non-dual reality in those moments.

 

On the other hand, if you have been hurt, or for whatever reason you choose to retreat, go ahead.  Leave behind the human emotions, detaching from the heart, and live exclusively in the non-dual existence for as long as you choose.

 

Maybe helpful?  IDK.  Did I answer your questions?

 

TLDR? 

 

What is my heart about?  Everything is for the best.  That is what my heart is about.

 

Sincerely,

 

Daniel

 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Daniel
formatting for easier reading

[helpfuldemon]

2 hours ago, welkin said:

 

 

 

So what now? are you on the path out of it? From what you mention, it seems that you're still suffering? Am i right?

 

 

 

I am not in pain, but as my friend just said, "Theres more to living than just not being in pain".  Hes right of course, but for me, there is nothing more right now, but that is because my illness has robbed me of my health and vitality, and opportunities to expand my surroundings with more activities and friendships.  

 

Compared to my previous experiences, I am not suffering, but compared to someone that is thriving, I am.

 

I see all relationships as somewhat vampiric, some more than others.  Its not very often that someone doesnt have an expectation on you.

[helpfuldemon]

37 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

 

 

Hello @helpfuldemon,

 

You asked:

 

"Tell me about your heart.  Is it filled with lust?  Or pride?  Do you have dreams to chase, or are you simply living to be alive, or are you waiting to die?  Why do you persist?  What do you want to see happen?"

 

Answers:

 

"It's open and closed, full, and empty, all the time forever.  Yes, lust, yes pride, yes to all of it."

"Do I chase dreams, of course I do.  Am living simply to be alive?  Yes, in a manner of speaking.  I'm doing the best I can on very limited information. "

"Why do I persist?  Because it's what I was made to do.  And I do it well.  And I enjoy it."

"What do I want to see happen?  Each individual sentient being receiving what it wants and what it needs in perpetuity.  From everlasting, even to everlasting.  But what I want doesn't matter.  I didn't choose to be born, I am a limited created being."

 

You shared:

 

"My heart is filled with benevolence.  I want nothing but happiness and prosperity for people.  I also pray that all people find the mind to do what is just.'

 

My response:

 

If I maybe so bold, I noticed that here ^^ the focus shifted from 'heart' to 'mind'.  Was that intentional? 

 

You continued to share: { paraphrasing }

 

Thematically you're sharing your inner conflict on the cosmology of existence?  If so, maybe I can help, maybe not?

 

My response:

 

The root cause of the conflict is in the paradox, am I right?  The paradox is the obvious dual/polar nature of reality vs. the equally obvious non-dual ( neti-neti ) nature of reality.  Right?

 

It's not that different than the conflict between "heart" and "mind" that I referenced above.  In your post you mentioned wanting to love, and be loved, and to be just and do virtuous deeds { paraphrasing } but you feel like "why bother" if everything is unified and non-dual.  If...non-dual, why bother?  Right?

 

It's a common problem.  I've seen it many times in myself and in others who are inclined towards a non-dual Point Of View.   If the person with the non-dual POV wants to experience the full range of human emotions. love, wonder, excitement, anticipation, release, etc... they need to chose to be grounded, they need to choose to live in their heart.  If on the other hand, that specific individual wants to detach from the material world ( perhaps they are seeking Buddhist enlightenment ) , then my advice to that person is to close off their heart and live in their mind.

 

But most people don't want to choose one or the other, and that creates a paradox... but... it's *only* a paradox.  If the paradox remains unresolved, most people become slightly inclined towards nihilism ( aka 'why bother?'-ism )

 

Does that make sense.  If I'm right about all that... maybe I can help.  When you want to love and be loved, anchor yourself to the material world and feel it, experience it.  Go ahead and go for it. Ignore the non-dual reality in those moments.

 

On the other hand, if you have been hurt, or for whatever reason you choose to retreat, go ahead.  Leave behind the human emotions, detaching from the heart, and live exclusively in the non-dual existence for as long as you choose.

 

Maybe helpful?  IDK.  Did I answer your questions?

 

TLDR? 

 

What is my heart about?  Everything is for the best.  That is what my heart is about.

 

Sincerely,

 

Daniel

 

 

This doesnt satisfy me, but Ive learned to accept Nature, and the limited civilization we place on it.  My friend was just saying that he  has hope that all these inroads towards equal rights and fair treatment will chip away at what I perceive as the naturalist view that animals are animals, and we have the right to participate in life in an animal fashion.  Personally I think the need and reason for order is to counter this animal/natural method- though I see that the animal/natural method is ripe pickings for many philosophers.  I think Plato figured this out all those years ago, and even he conceded that mankind needs these animal things, though I think he too found it in distaste.

 

As far as the heart and mind, I dont separate the two, but you can separate yourself from them.  In the end I believe that the mind leads, because a heart can be wild and irrational.  I think the heart, like the stomach, is something we learn with the mind from, and make adjustments according to what it teaches us.  

[Daniel]

45 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

This doesnt satisfy me, but Ive learned to accept Nature, and the limited civilization we place on it.  My friend was just saying that he  has hope that all these inroads towards equal rights and fair treatment will chip away at what I perceive as the naturalist view that animals are animals, and we have the right to participate in life in an animal fashion.  Personally I think the need and reason for order is to counter this animal/natural method- though I see that the animal/natural method is ripe pickings for many philosophers.  I think Plato figured this out all those years ago, and even he conceded that mankind needs these animal things, though I think he too found it in distaste.

 

As far as the heart and mind, I dont separate the two, but you can separate yourself from them.  In the end I believe that the mind leads, because a heart can be wild and irrational.  I think the heart, like the stomach, is something we learn with the mind from, and make adjustments according to what it teaches us.  

I agree with every word.

 

I cannot find any faults in your logic or reasoning.

 

Further, I agree that "we have the right to participate in life in an animal fashion". 

[welkin]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

 

I am not in pain, but as my friend just said, "Theres more to living than just not being in pain".  Hes right of course, but for me, there is nothing more right now, but that is because my illness has robbed me of my health and vitality, and opportunities to expand my surroundings with more activities and friendships.  

 

Compared to my previous experiences, I am not suffering, but compared to someone that is thriving, I am.

 

I see all relationships as somewhat vampiric, some more than others.  Its not very often that someone doesnt have an expectation on you.

 

"I am not in pain"

 

"Hes right of course, but for me, there is nothing more right now"

 

either you're a trickster or you're romanticizing the existence you're living. though you're not the only trickster in the room. tricksters make me want to pierce them with a lightning bolt. And maybe eventually it will, but for now i'll leave those flys to eat their shit.

 

So what's your illness? and do you even want to get out of it?

 

[Paradoxal]

There is no pleasure without suffering, nor is there suffering without pleasure. The choices when dealing with suffering are to use one to counterbalance the other, transcend both pleasure and suffering, or to simply cease both. 

[helpfuldemon]

19 minutes ago, welkin said:

 

"I am not in pain"

 

"Hes right of course, but for me, there is nothing more right now"

 

either you're a trickster or you're romanticizing the existence you're living. though you're not the only trickster in the room. tricksters make me want to pierce them with a lightning bolt. And maybe eventually it will, but for now i'll leave those flys to eat their shit.

 

So what's your illness? and do you even want to get out of it?

 

 

I have experienced a broad selection of mental illness.  This illness has been both psychological, intellectual, and physical.  The pain I have felt has been of all three spectrum's, and as of the past two months I have been in none of them, except for the pushing of my Will to learn more, which is somewhat of a discomfort, but I dont call that pain, I call it work.  

 

Yes I want to get out of this illness but its not something I have control over, though I am learning to adjust to it so that I can try to live a stable life.  A happy life?  I dont know if that is possible right now.  I am content (mostly), if that matters, but I wouldnt say I am happy.  How can I find happiness when everything is ruined?  I also find no pleasure or joy.  The only times I laugh is when I think about how sick and demented this illness has made me.  Im getting better though.  Time truly heals wounds, and if youre allowed the time to heal, you will slowly forget.