New yogi member

[mYogi]

Hi everyone,

 

I’m a yogi, and I’m interested in discussing various topics like yoga, energy, Chi Hong, breathing, posture, philosophy etc.

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[mYogi]

Thanks guys, 

 

I’m at the moment interested in comparing Yoga and Chi Gong, or Tai Chi, I see a lot of similarities, but also some differences.

I’ve been practicing Yoga for couple of decades, together with the study of different philosophies and related areas.

[Daniel]

Hello @mYogi  Nice to meet you.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Daniel

[Cleansox]

On 2020-07-26 at 8:25 PM, mYogi said:

 

I’m at the moment interested in comparing Yoga and Chi Gong, or Tai Chi, I see a lot of similarities, but also some differences.

Are you most interested in the physical aspects, the energetic systems, or the Mind aspects? 

 

I'm sure that no matter which, if you just start a couple of threads others will chip in. 

 

I will avoid the Mind aspect myself, but will aid in the general confusion and melee on the other two 😁

[mYogi]

Thanks for the welcome Daniel.

 

@Cleansox

 

Well, I’m interested in all of them, since they are all interrelated.

However, I’m mostly interested in the transcendent aspect.

I reduced over the years reading, thinking, talking, activities of the mind.

Now I meditate, contemplate, I watch nature, chop wood-carry water as they say.

 

Now, the reason why I came to the Internet forum, which I consider a not very sattvic medium, is that I want to help a friend who is a noob in Qigong or gentle Tai Chi.

 

So, I tried to help him with Hatha yoga, but he is very stubborn, doesn’t want to do it as he is afraid of heart energy going up. 

When I try to help someone, I usually ask a lot of questions, about diet, daily routine, I inspect the posture, breathing, energy in the nose and sinuses, I try to determine a psychological type, yin and yang energies, and a ask a lot of other questions.

 

I noticed immediately that my friend has a mostly tamasic (inert, lethargic) temperament, with a chest sinking a bit, which goes together often.

Now, for a yogi that’s a no brainer, I give them backbends, chest openers, pranayama with large expansion of the chest, Kapalabhati pranayama etc.

On the level of the mind, I suggest some values, affirmations, attitudes that I think they miss, which are yang in nature. 

I also introduce some meditation right at the beginning as a taste of what’s to come later and a kind of an incentive.

 

I tried to explain to my friend that both yin and yang have their positive and negative aspects, that not all yang is bad, but he is still reluctant to try my suggestions.

 

So, now I’m trying to help him in Qigong way, but I don’t now how, and I’ve just started my Taoist-TCM studies, so I’m a noob too.

 

The thing is that I find Qigong an excellent tool to treat people with destructive yang, but not people with bad yin. How do I straighten his posture if he doesn’t want to stretch up or back, which a logical thing to do?

How do I heal his chest energy which we call prana vayu(wind) in yoga without my yogic toolkit?

 

I tried a standing Tai Chi pose, and I find it excellent for meditation. I understood it immediately, almost all the elements are yin. I was able to enter a mini-samadhi in the pauses after exhalation almost the first time I did it. I breathed Ujjayi with full chest expansion and large volume, as I did it during my asana practice, will try with abdominal breathing some other time, but abdominal breathing is very familiar to me as a yogi.

The only thing that I didn’t get is if I should engage the muscles of the legs and gluteus a bit.

Edited July 29, 2020 by mYogi
Typos

[Cleansox]

44 minutes ago, mYogi said:

 

@Cleansox

 

So, I tried to help him with Hatha yoga, but he is very stubborn, doesn’t want to do it as hi is afraid of heart energy going up. 

/... ... /

 

I noticed immediately that my friend has a mostly tamasic (inert, lethargic) temperament, with a chest sinking a bit, which goes together often.

Now, for a yogi that’s a no brainer, I give them backbends, chest openers, pranayama with large expansion of the chest, Kapalabhati pranayama etc.

/... ... /

 

The thing is that I find Qigong an excellent tool to treat people with destructive yang, but not people with bad yin. How do I straighten his posture if he doesn’t want to stretch up or back, which a logical thing to do?

He can straighten his back and sink/relax the chest at the same time, a focus on the kwa and the expansion of the shoulders nests will provide gentler tools then overexpansion of the chest. 

 

That would be the Chinese way. 😁 

[Khamasie]

On 7/29/2020 at 4:50 PM, mYogi said:

Thanks for the welcome Daniel.

 

@Cleansox

 

Well, I’m interested in all of them, since they are all interrelated.

However, I’m mostly interested in the transcendent aspect.

I reduced over the years reading, thinking, talking, activities of the mind.

Now I meditate, contemplate, I watch nature, chop wood-carry water as they say.

 

Now, the reason why I came to the Internet forum, which I consider a not very sattvic medium, is that I want to help a friend who is a noob in Qigong or gentle Tai Chi.

 

So, I tried to help him with Hatha yoga, but he is very stubborn, doesn’t want to do it as he is afraid of heart energy going up. 

When I try to help someone, I usually ask a lot of questions, about diet, daily routine, I inspect the posture, breathing, energy in the nose and sinuses, I try to determine a psychological type, yin and yang energies, and a ask a lot of other questions.

 

I noticed immediately that my friend has a mostly tamasic (inert, lethargic) temperament, with a chest sinking a bit, which goes together often.

Now, for a yogi that’s a no brainer, I give them backbends, chest openers, pranayama with large expansion of the chest, Kapalabhati pranayama etc.

On the level of the mind, I suggest some values, affirmations, attitudes that I think they miss, which are yang in nature. 

I also introduce some meditation right at the beginning as a taste of what’s to come later and a kind of an incentive.

 

I tried to explain to my friend that both yin and yang have their positive and negative aspects, that not all yang is bad, but he is still reluctant to try my suggestions.

 

So, now I’m trying to help him in Qigong way, but I don’t now how, and I’ve just started my Taoist-TCM studies, so I’m a noob too.

 

The thing is that I find Qigong an excellent tool to treat people with destructive yang, but not people with bad yin. How do I straighten his posture if he doesn’t want to stretch up or back, which a logical thing to do?

How do I heal his chest energy which we call prana vayu(wind) in yoga without my yogic toolkit?

 

I tried a standing Tai Chi pose, and I find it excellent for meditation. I understood it immediately, almost all the elements are yin. I was able to enter a mini-samadhi in the pauses after exhalation almost the first time I did it. I breathed Ujjayi with full chest expansion and large volume, as I did it during my asana practice, will try with abdominal breathing some other time, but abdominal breathing is very familiar to me as a yogi.

The only thing that I didn’t get is if I should engage the muscles of the legs and gluteus a bit.

As mentioned by @Cleansox. But as complementary and a reminder, as you probably already suggested this, let your friend have a good daily routine with good foods and good drinks (clean water esp in the midday and evening). And let this routine just have a practice your friend prefers at around the same time every day (maybe not weekends), which will include standing positions. Go slow and steady.

 

Tamas I come accros is mostly due to bad ingestion of something or things. Irregular sleeping patterns, watching too much television, jadiejadiejadie. And mostly with Tamas you only want to bring about 1 or 2 efforts which are doable. Giving too many changes at once will not be accepted / can not (?) By somebody with a lot of Tamas. If there is depression think about compassion, tell them it sucks but it is totally fine (hence also not giving too much of a change). Somewhere in your friend there is their own path, most of the times you can not really change that or explain that, however providing warmth and acceptance while continuing your own path and caring about them without trying too much to help gives them the freedom to decide for themselves. Not sure of this above clicks with you, good luck and have fun with your friend (just as play, talk, sing etc). It is all good, even if it seems blurry for a while.

[Creation]

On 7/29/2020 at 9:50 AM, mYogi said:

Now, for a yogi that’s a no brainer, I give them backbends, chest openers, pranayama with large expansion of the chest, Kapalabhati pranayama etc.

On the level of the mind, I suggest some values, affirmations, attitudes that I think they miss, which are yang in nature. 

I also introduce some meditation right at the beginning as a taste of what’s to come later and a kind of an incentive.

 

I tried to explain to my friend that both yin and yang have their positive and negative aspects, that not all yang is bad, but he is still reluctant to try my suggestions.

 

So, now I’m trying to help him in Qigong way, but I don’t now how, and I’ve just started my Taoist-TCM studies, so I’m a noob too.

 

The thing is that I find Qigong an excellent tool to treat people with destructive yang, but not people with bad yin. How do I straighten his posture if he doesn’t want to stretch up or back, which a logical thing to do?

How do I heal his chest energy which we call prana vayu(wind) in yoga without my yogic toolkit?

 

I tried a standing Tai Chi pose, and I find it excellent for meditation. I understood it immediately, almost all the elements are yin. I was able to enter a mini-samadhi in the pauses after exhalation almost the first time I did it. I breathed Ujjayi with full chest expansion and large volume, as I did it during my asana practice, will try with abdominal breathing some other time, but abdominal breathing is very familiar to me as a yogi.

The only thing that I didn’t get is if I should engage the muscles of the legs and gluteus a bit.

Hi mYogi, nice to meet someone with dedication, sincerity and experience, and a willingness to keep learning.

 

I was much like your friend years ago, focused on Daoist practices and thinking "sink the chest" meant "collapse the chest", believed yoga was too forceful and yang for me.  Well, I realized my Daoist practices were exacerbating my depression, and I met a yoga teacher that impressed me, so I took up yoga in great earnest.  I became, but most standards, quite proficient at yogasana and intense pranayama methods.  Until I realized something was wrong, somehow the insides of my body weren't moving like they were supposed to even though the outside looked correct due to hypermobile joints, and it would be ill advised to continue.  Not to long later became aware of a Daoist teacher that taught differently than I had seen in the past - he emphasized that the proper way to practice was to distinguish between relaxing and collapsing, and learn to relax the muscles while engaging the web of connective tissue throughout the whole body, which makes standing practice feel anything but relaxing!  I knew that this is what I had been missing - in yogasana and breathing methods as well as my prior Daoist practice I had a complete lack of connective tissue integrity, and I very much thought relax meant collapse.  Here is this teacher explaining these things, perhaps you and/or your friend would be interested:

 

 

Honestly, good teachings on the internals of Tai Chi and qigong are very hard to find. 

[mYogi]

.

Edited August 13, 2020 by mYogi

[thelerner]

On 8/5/2020 at 1:18 PM, Creation said:

Honestly, good teachings on the internals of Tai Chi and qigong are very hard to find. 

I'm reminded of an old joke

 

Q.  'How many Tai Chi teachers does it take to change a light-bulb?'

Ans: 3, one to change it, the other 2 to correct his form. 

 

or

 

1, but it takes many years. 

[idquest]

To help your friend, you might want to have a look at daoyin and/or some vigorous sets of yijinjing. While qigong is more about cultivating qi and directing qi along the meridians, daoyin works on more of the physical level and connective tissue. In some respect, daoyin would be similar to vinyasa flow as opposed to mild version of yin yoga or tha portion of hatha yoga. This daoyin can be fairly hardcore and it has the Chinese modality that your friend seems to appreciate.