Death of all causes

[Taomeow]

I've spoken in my Batshit threads about it being impossible to assess the death toll of a pandemic while it's ongoing.   Historically, it has never been possible, and not just in the course of a pandemic but years, decades, centuries and even millennia after the fact the figures arrived at in the course of various investigations sometimes differ by orders of magnitude.  It's not just the direct impact of the disease that takes its toll on the populations but all the cumulative disruption it entails, its long tail not only spanning millennia but changing the world it has swept through permanently.  Some historians of the Antonine plague, e.g. (165 AD--180 AD), which is likely to have been a combination of two strains of smallpox imported from China (and, as molecular biology was to discover nearly two thousand years later, may have changed the immune system of the survivors in a way that allowed a new disease, measles, to evolve and begin its assault on the human population a thousand years after the fact), believe that the ancient world never recovered from the blow.  Marcus Aurelius wrote in his Meditations that even the pestilence around him was less deadly than falsehood, evil behavior and lack of true understanding. 

 

Of the people I know personally or indirectly (i.e. friend or relative of someone I know personally), seven died since the beginning of the year, and in every case but one they were neither old nor, prior to the fact, at a particular risk of dying from anything this year.  Two suffered a catastrophic aneurism rupture.  It is known by now that covid can cause multiple blood clots, including in mild cases, that may result in embolisms, strokes and all kinds of cardiovascular and cerebrovascular events.  However, neither one was registered as a covid death.  Two more died of cancer -- the only old man among them, who registered as dying "with" rather than "from" covid since he did have (and beaten) lung cancer before contracting covid; and a man who had undergone chemo for (also) lung cancer a year before.  One, who used to be a close friend, died of causes unknown to me.  What I do know is that in the prior couple of years he suffered through a tremendous amount of stress, his whole life got turned upside down -- yet I knew him as a very sturdy guy both psychologically and physically, and exceptionally knowledgeable about the ways of health.  One suddenly (within days) developed symptoms that led to the diagnosis of an inoperable brain tumor.  One suffered a lethal heart attack -- at 27, with no prior history of heart disease.

 

I wonder if anyone not directly affected by the pandemic has noticed a sudden increase of "death of all causes" in their human environment.  If you care to share your stories (regardless of whether it's a "yes, same here" or "no, nothing of the kind"), please contribute.  I'm trying to integrate the information from all kinds of sources.  

  

Edited July 31, 2020 by Taomeow

[silent thunder]

This death is not directly linked to C:19 through health, but covid may be implicated due to economic factors pushing someone into a shitty circumstance that caused his death.

 

Two days ago, in the early evening, we discovered the body of a man (30'ish) lying in our courtyard, that had recently bled out.  By recently... I mean mere minutes as the blood had not coagulated on the cement yet.  He clearly had been injured somewhere else and had walked to where he collapsed, as the remaining blood near his body was minimal.

 

What struck me is that the entire event was almost utterly silent.  He never called for aid, never cried out in pain.  Whoever called the medics for him did not cry out in shock or despair.

 

The EMT's were arrived silently, and kept radios off while they gurnied his body and cleaned the site.

 

EMT's assumed it was bullet wounds, (my wife was compelled to go ask), but wouldn't speculate beyond that.

 

Where we live, we are not far from gang territory to our North and East, but the boundaries are being softened by desperation it seems.  No homicide detectives showed up to interview anyone, so at this point I'm assuming they (police) know where he was in an altercation elsewhere and thus, there is nothing to garner from the spot, or witnesses where he bled out.

 

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

Marcus Aurelius wrote in his Meditations that even the pestilence around him was less deadly than falsehood, evil behavior and lack of true understanding.

I'm with Marcus, in that the human element to this pandemic, and their complication of the social aspects of it is proving far more terrifying and far reaching than the virus itself.  Though I'm fortunate to say in my circle of work mates and neighbors, in my direct contact daily in shopping and moving about in my very limited manner (my wife is high risk) what I have observed is an increase in folks behaving admirably.  But that's just in my bubble it seems, whenever I poke my nose in the news...

 

'Murica, truly seems the land of free-dumb right now to me in how folks are under-reacting to the virus and over-reacting to the social modifications to try and stem its spread.  Both the underplaying of the virus and the over-reaction to any social modifications like masks and distancing are clearly coping mechanisms for those incapable of staring this process in the eye... and the implications of their under and over reactions, are rather horrifying.

 

C'est la vie... the cycle continues...

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by silent thunder
fixed a non-sensical statement

[Paradoxal]

I can confirm that there have been a lot more deaths of non C19 cause in my circles, often those who have not even had the disease. I assume that it's a combination of weakening mindset, lingering death energy, and economic factors that end up creating the ideal hotbed for deadly things. I would go so far as to say that it's like a plague of "deadly luck", not just physical illness. 

[thelerner]

So far, so good, for my intimate circle.  No deaths, Yay.   Some scares, lots of lost opportunity and a fair amount of financial hardships.  Mostly the pandemic has meant fear, justified, I think.  Mostly fear for our elders, a bit reserved for ourselves.   Its probably different for people like my sister who knows everyone and is connected to half the world through a few links.  

 

Speaking of covid, I just got 2 antigen tests in the mail today.   I'm involved in a study put on by my Oura smart ring.  It has me doing health surveys each day.  Now they've mailed me a test; looks I'll have to prick myself once or twice and mail it back.  Could be I had it and didn't know.  Haven't we all felt sick sometime in the past 4 months? 

[Taomeow]

7 minutes ago, thelerner said:

So far, so good, for my intimate circle.  No deaths, Yay.   Some scares, lots of lost opportunity and a fair amount of financial hardships.  Mostly the pandemic has meant fear, justified, I think.  Mostly fear for our elders, a bit reserved for ourselves.   Its probably different for people like my sister who knows everyone and is connected to half the world through a few links.  

 

Speaking of covid, I just got 2 antigen tests in the mail today.   I'm involved in a study put on by my Oura smart ring.  It has me doing health surveys each day.  Now they've mailed me a test; looks I'll have to prick myself once or twice and mail it back.  Could be I had it and didn't know.  Haven't we all felt sick sometime in the past 4 months? 

 

So far, to my knowledge, there's never been a confirmed case where antibodies would still be going strong 4 months after the initial infection.  They tend to disappear within 2-3 months or sooner, like with most other coronaviruses (for which the longest lived antibody mediated immune response may persist for several months.)  This doesn't actually mean that there can be no long term immunity, but the specific antibody based kind seems unlikely at this point.  Non-specific adaptive immunity vastly relies on T-cells, but since this virus has shown a robust ability to infect and kill them, it is not clear whether they can be relied on either unless there's a vast surplus where they come from (e.g. in children, whose thymus is still very active, the younger they are the more so).  Our best hope in terms of immunity is a bunch of unknown, overlooked, undiscovered or ignored immune mechanisms, which do seem to be working for some people, only no one actually knows exactly what they are.  

 

If your test comes back positive for antibodies, please don't drop your guard.