De-caf question?

[old3bob]

Does anyone know if there is something about de-caf that is harder on the system than regular coffee?  I've been buying organic de-caf thinking it might be healthier yet it still causes troubles in my lower tract to the point where I may have to give it up. Thanks for any info.

[Taomeow]

53 minutes ago, old3bob said:

Does anyone know if there is something about de-caf that is harder on the system than regular coffee?  I've been buying organic de-caf thinking it might be healthier yet it still causes troubles in my lower tract to the point where I may have to give it up. Thanks for any info.

 

The cheapest and most widely used method to extract caffeine from coffee used to be treating it with benzene, a generous portion of which remained in the final product.  The current most widely used method is to treat it with methylene chloride (used in paint removers) and ethyl acetate (used in glue and nail polish removers).  These have vast adverse effects on the human body.  (I for one not only never drink decaf but never use nail polish either because those chemicals are hormone disruptors -- and, being small invasive molecules, are absorbed into the bloodstream even through the fingernails -- ten seconds after application.)  

 

That's one part of the story.  The other part is, coffee the real thing is an extremely finely balanced herbal (sic) medicine all of whose thousands of components work best synergistically.  A proper (sic) cup of coffee is not "caffeine" you get from the caffeine tablet, anymore than you can play music by continuously hitting just one loud note -- the loudest -- and call it a Mozart symphony.   For more information on the subject of why it's a bad idea to strip coffee of caffeine and consume whatever remains (even if you don't count the chemicals added) you may want to check out the thread titled "TaoMeow on coffee" (with this spelling of my name used by Thelearner who started that thread, a long time ago) if you can find it.  If you can't, AMA.  

Edited August 5, 2020 by Taomeow

[old3bob]

Thanks a ton for the information!  So I take it that even if the beans were originally organic the packaging would not reveal the chemicals you mentioned for caffeine removal !  (besides your important point about the synergistic effect) 

[forestofclarity]

I use organic decaf and it says it uses the Swiss Water Process. 

 

8 minutes ago, old3bob said:

Thanks a ton for the information!  So I take it that even if the beans were originally organic the packaging would not reveal the chemicals you mentioned for caffeine removal !  (besides your important point about the synergistic effect) 

 

[old3bob]

4 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

I use organic decaf and it says it uses the Swiss Water Process. 

 

 

 

I too had a bag that said, "swiss water process' but it also ripped me a new asshole?  So maybe i have other problems going on ? I do know most teas don't bother me at all or pop with stevia in it. 

[natural]

If the product were to be subject to being labeled "Organic" in the USA' its production, processing, handling and labeling as such would be subject to greater regulation under USDA standards. That being said "buyers beware" and a close examination of both USDA and FDA standards would be a great idea,

[old3bob]

8 minutes ago, natural said:

If the product were to be subject to being labeled "Organic" in the USA' its production, processing, handling and labeling as such would be subject to greater regulation under USDA standards. That being said "buyers beware" and a close examination of both USDA and FDA standards would be a great idea,

 

unfortunately we can not trust the usda or fda very darn far !

[forestofclarity]

Hmm. Ripping a new hole may indicate that one was insufficient to remove all the crap.

 

Just kidding! 

 

Maybe your body just doesn't care for coffee. 

 

33 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

I too had a bag that said, "swiss water process' but it also ripped me a new asshole?  So maybe i have other problems going on ? I do know most teas don't bother me at all or pop with stevia in it. 

 

[old3bob]

23 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

Hmm. Ripping a new hole may indicate that one was insufficient to remove all the crap.

 

Just kidding! 

 

Maybe your body just doesn't care for coffee. 

 

 

 

could be   or just making the old one bigger and uncontrolled, yikes - run baby run...

 

( btw. no problemo with star bucks "double shot" and its 1/2 of pound of sugar except for the sugar !)

Edited August 5, 2020 by old3bob

[silent thunder]

My wife cannot abide coffee at all any longer.  She misses it but has, through thorough trials and testing, finally accepted that no matter how well she's feeling, drinking coffee is usually equivalent to eating a grenade for her.  Her lower GI tract just goes berzerk with it.

 

We're exploring some wonderful teas together now though...

 

My own coffee drinking has shifted entirely.  I used to be drawn to heavy, dark dark roasts, Turkish Mud coffee I called it.  With lots of milk and honey.  Now I brew very light roasts and drink it straight.

[old3bob]

37 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

My wife cannot abide coffee at all any longer.  She misses it but has, through thorough trials and testing, finally accepted that no matter how well she's feeling, drinking coffee is usually equivalent to eating a grenade for her.  Her lower GI tract just goes berzerk with it.

 

We're exploring some wonderful teas together now though...

 

My own coffee drinking has shifted entirely.  I used to be drawn to heavy, dark dark roasts, Turkish Mud coffee I called it.  With lots of milk and honey.  Now I brew very light roasts and drink it straight.

 

Right, I can relate...I'll try some light roast caffeinated next and see how things go.  I drank gut-rot coffee at work for years just because it was there, besides being in perpetual jet lag from shift work and needing caffeine at 3:30 in the morning for a boost.  It was the same with many of my fellow workers; btw. there was this one guy who said he could not handle eating Mexican food yet he could drink down that re-percolated crap all day!  

[Taomeow]

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

Thanks a ton for the information!  So I take it that even if the beans were originally organic the packaging would not reveal the chemicals you mentioned for caffeine removal !  (besides your important point about the synergistic effect) 

 

Yes, the amounts of chemicals may be low enough to not be mentioned per some standards or other, and the standards may be somewhat sketchy (e.g. many American foods don't come close to meeting the European ones).   What someone mentioned above regarding "Swiss Water Process" may be better, but I would have to have been there seen that.  E.g. what kind of water is being used, and what amount of chemicals therein still meets the standards for it being classified as "water" rather than "solvent."  I dunno.  

 

Coffee itself, not just/necessarily decaf, is a fairly robust peristalsis stimulant, so needing to go after the first morning cup is pretty normal for people with no oversensitivity to caffeine, IBS, or any number of problems with the GI tract along the lines of a tendency toward loose bowels.  It is an excellent preventive/curative for constipation for many, so if the effect is within this normal range, it's rather beneficial.  People with high stomach acidity may be getting too much of the good thing though, while people with low stomach acidity (a far more prevalent condition) might get a digestive boost from drinking coffee.  I'm guessing if the effects are excessive in the case of decaf, just keep it on hand as a laxative for when/if you ever need it.  See if you have the same effects with regular coffee, and if you don't, just (coffee propaganda self-cenzored).  

Edited August 5, 2020 by Taomeow

[dwai]

I used to have serious stomach issues with black coffee. Switching to a cappuccino has resolved it. Somehow, the fats in the milk neutralize the effect that the acid in coffee was having on my system. 

 

According to Ayurveda, Coffee increases the pitta (fire) dosha. We consider Mango to be similar and traditional wisdom always had us having some milk/yogurt along with mango to neutralize its fire. I suspect that is also the case with coffee. 

[silent thunder]

18 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

Right, I can relate...I'll try some light roast caffeinated next and see how things go.  I drank gut-rot coffee at work for years just because it was there, besides being in perpetual jet lag from shift work and needing caffeine at 3:30 in the morning for a boost.  It was the same with many of my fellow workers; btw. there was this one guy who said he could not handle eating Mexican food yet he could drink down that re-percolated crap all day!  

I took years off of coffee and like I mentioned when I returned to using it, I shifted to light roasts and straight versus dairy n sugars.  I appreciate it so much more now.  The flavoring in the various beans and the manner they're roasted.  Grinding my own for desired consistency.  It's become a lovely ritual in the early morning. (we share the same wakeup time).

 

I can't drink the work coffee any longer, it's good for degreasing tool parts. 

 

What I do now, is fill my travel mug with the remnants of my press that i make in the morning which is about 3 cups.  When it's about half empty, I top it off with hot water.  I keep doing this throughout the day and by the end of my 10 hour shift, I'm drinking hot water.  This has been a nice shift as I used to absent mindedly over-drink coffee routinely.

[silent thunder]

It's been a while... but after writing about the dark coffee... I'm going to break out my Ibrik and make a nice sweet cuppa Turkish Mud soon.

[Limahong]

16 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I'm drinking hot water.

 

Hi Creighton,

 

Smart & neat.

A good - feat.

 

- Anand

 

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

I used to have serious stomach issues with black coffee. Switching to a cappuccino has resolved it. Somehow, the fats in the milk neutralize the effect that the acid in coffee was having on my system. 

 

According to Ayurveda, Coffee increases the pitta (fire) dosha. We consider Mango to be similar and traditional wisdom always had us having some milk/yogurt along with mango to neutralize its fire. I suspect that is also the case with coffee. 

 

Yup, I second that, though I never liked milk in my coffee -- but then those Bulletproof guys who advocate putting butter in coffee got me to try it and there was no going back.  I put a generous half teaspoon in my cup of (those who know me know) strong, freshly ground every morning out of medium or light roasted beans, cezve/ibrik made (starting with cold water and adding 1 t sugar per 3 t coffee -- no sugar added as an afterthought, it's part of the brew) Armenian delight.  I usually add a teaspoon of cognac as a final touch -- more is not needed and is in fact counterproductive,  it's added for doing something magical to the flavor, not for turning it into Irish coffee.  It's optional of course but I opt for this every morning. Why subtract from perfection?  And I always drink a glass of water with my coffee, sip for sip.  (I wrote why in that coffee thread of mine I mentioned earlier.)     

Edited August 6, 2020 by Taomeow

[old3bob]

so I looked in the fridge today and found a container of organic regular instant coffee that I had kind of forgot about.  I read the label and it warned of containing acrylomide, a potential carcinogen.  What the hell,  hopefully the peas and carrots we grow in the backyard don't have something potentially harmful in them....(then again the soil could)  

Edited August 6, 2020 by old3bob

[waterdrop]

I dont know how much the TCM practitioner  who wrote the quote below about coffee   wants to publish this outside of facebook with his name connected to it     -  so i just put quote of his here  ...  and would mention he said he   still drinks coffee himself   -  so that should be taken into account as well :
 

 

Quote

Someone asked something about coffee (in fact, someone is always asking something about coffee!!), but I couldn’t find where I hadwritten about it in the past... so here it is again 🙂
 

From a Chinese medicine perspective, coffee is considered to be Bitter and Pungent, and warming in nature. It is thought to be beneficial by regulating the Heart Fire due to its ability to drain Fire (with its Bitter flavour) and promote circulation (with its Pungent flavour). However, this of course is if taken in moderation. The coffee bean is in fact a very potent substance, and very little is needed before it becomes detrimental to the body, and like with everything, it has both its positives and negatives – in fact, when roasted and brewed it takes on even stronger properties.
 

The main action of coffee is that it strongly stimulates the flow of Qi and stimulates it so much so that it can often feel like a Qi tonic (which is why people may drink it to get more energy). However, it is not tonifying in the slightest, and only draws upon what energy reserves you already have that are often stored within the Kidneys.
 

Although coffee strongly stimulates the flow of Qj, which is helpful for any type of stagnation, unfortunately it does not regulate its flow. This is like the herb Chai Hu (for those of you who understand Chinese herbal medicine). Due to the fact that it stimulates the flow of Qi so strongly, yet does not regulate it, the stimulation of flow can actually damage the Liver Yin as the movement is too strong. When talking about the herb Chai Hu, this is why it is often used alongside certain other herbs, such as Bai Shao, which helps to negate these side effects.
 

When the Liver Yin becomes damaged it creates Heat, which leads to two perpetuating issues. Firstly, the Heat from the Liver rises to agitate the Heart Fires – essentially throwing more Wood onto the Fire. Secondly, when the Liver Yin is damaged, it draws upon the Kidney Yin for support. This causes the Kidney Yin to deplete, the Qi to rise (again agitating the Heart), and results in a lack of Kidney Yin to restrain the Heart Fire. Once this happens, palpitations may begin to occur when drinking coffee, lower back pain can arise, and Liver type tinnitus can occur.

It should be noted that decaf coffee is not an answer to this either, as it is the coffee bean that holds these properties, and not the caffeine itself. Also, certain methods of decaffeination are damaging in their own ways!

 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by waterdrop

[liminal_luke]

It´s human to want a simple answers -- is this foodstuff healthy or unhealthy, good or bad?  We imagine that there´s one answer which will hold for all people at every point in life.  Unfortunately, many foods have both good and bad properties, helping some physiological processes while hurting others.  To further complicate matters, we´re all so different.  Coffee is perhaps especially hard to pin down. For some people coffee prevents diabetes; for others, it exacerbates the condition.  It can stimulate a good mood or bring on anxiety.  There´s no way most of us can even start to get a handle on it´s biochemical complexities without a pot of the stuff.

[forestofclarity]

1 hour ago, waterdrop said:

I dont know how much the TCM practitioner  who wrote the quote below about coffee   wants to publish this outside of facebook with his name connected to it     -  so i just put quote of his here  ...  and would mention he said he himself still drinks coffee himself   -  so that should be taken into account as well :
 

 

 

 

Anti-coffee propaganda. I will have none of it. Not the first time, either. Legend has it that in Europe, coffee was largely derided as the "devil's drink," suitable only for consumption by radicals. Until Pope Clement VIII tried it, and was so enamored of the drink, he "baptized" it for proper use. 

 

[silent thunder]

Hey @old3bob

 

Just had a thought.  Have you tried cold brewed coffee?

I have an Aunt who experiences severe lower GI reactions to regularly brewed coffee, but has no reaction to cold brew.  Significantly lower acid content in cold brew from what I hear which is the difference maker for her it seems.

 

cheers...

 

 

[old3bob]

7 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Hey @old3bob

 

Just had a thought.  Have you tried cold brewed coffee?

I have an Aunt who experiences severe lower GI reactions to regularly brewed coffee, but has no reaction to cold brew.  Significantly lower acid content in cold brew from what I hear which is the difference maker for her it seems.

 

cheers...

 

 

 

I haven't except some of the cold stuff Star Bucks sells which is probably not the same quality?

 Thanks for the heads up and cheers also!

[old3bob]

Well I tried some  "Puroast" brand coffee which is supposedly low acid, so far I've had better results with it.  ;-)

[old3bob]

does anyone care to share their coffee consumption experiences along the lines when best to drink it (or not) and with what foods?  Drinking coffee on an empty stomach seems to be a no-no for me since its hits a lot harder as far as throwing off parts of  digestive and elimination systems...