Mosquitoes, ants?

[Mig]

I didn't know where to post this one. I find the question may relate to Daoists or Buddhist beliefs about respecting life or not to kill. Recently, I was invaded by ants, even if there was no food around but the little they found, they will invade by hundreds that looks by thousands. Then after cleaning the house and kitchen, I decided to take a rest in the evening and little by little I found out I was attacked by mosquitoes. Then I bought a repellent plant that helped a little and dressed well to protect myself, and no, they will attack no matter what. So the question comes about, should I kill them or what should I do? Ants, don't give up so the only way I see is to kill them and stop their invasion. The mosquitoes, no matter what they will attack so I decided to avoid going out until it becomes cooler so they won't come at me. Since those religions preach not to kill, what do you do even if you try to persuade ants and mosquitoes or find other alternative and none of them works?

[EmeraldHead]

The way I understand the role of morals is to become rooted in the all compassionate cosmic mind. ~sambogakaya type stuff in traditional buddhism.

 

Because the body and the totally postnatal/earthly part of mind is a robot. It's conduct is just action, cannot really have purpose. The doer beyond the body is to be ... cultivated / taught.

[ilumairen]

29 minutes ago, Mig said:

I didn't know where to post this one. I find the question may relate to Daoists or Buddhist beliefs about respecting life or not to kill. Recently, I was invaded by ants, even if there was no food around but the little they found, they will invade by hundreds that looks by thousands. Then after cleaning the house and kitchen, I decided to take a rest in the evening and little by little I found out I was attacked by mosquitoes. Then I bought a repellent plant that helped a little and dressed well to protect myself, and no, they will attack no matter what. So the question comes about, should I kill them or what should I do? Ants, don't give up so the only way I see is to kill them and stop their invasion. The mosquitoes, no matter what they will attack so I decided to avoid going out until it becomes cooler so they won't come at me. Since those religions preach not to kill, what do you do even if you try to persuade ants and mosquitoes or find other alternative and none of them works?

Perhaps you could trace where the ants are entering, and block the path?

 

Mosquitoes seem to have an aversion to citrus - particularly lemon as I understand it. So maybe utilizing lemon oil, or something similar would help.
 

I had a co-worker who swore by garlic, but he ate so much he perpetually smelled of it (to the point humans also avoided proximity.)

 

And more humorously (depending upon how one views historical accounts of mosquitoes avoiding Irish immigrants) they also seem to have an aversion to whiskey (and gin) drinkers, although I wouldn’t recommend becoming an alcoholic simply to avoid mosquitoes.

[Mig]

38 minutes ago, EmeraldHead said:

The way I understand the role of morals is to become rooted in the all compassionate cosmic mind. ~sambogakaya type stuff in traditional buddhism.

 

Because the body and the totally postnatal/earthly part of mind is a robot. It's conduct is just action, cannot really have purpose. The doer beyond the body is to be ... cultivated / taught.

Both Daoist and Buddhism precepts is NOT to kill. So what do I do with those insects? If I don't get rid of them, they will come at you especially during summer. I know at some point when we leave this world, the corpse will be eaten by insects as the natural cycle.

[Mig]

I plucked every orifice possible and no matter which way they come back. I followed around the garden and nothing around the house so they are under the house somewhere. They send scouts to check in and if they find one tiny thing they send platoons and now everything is sealed or in the fridge or in the freezer. Pest control is my last resort but I am trying not to so I can understand their beliefs in not killing.

[ilumairen]

2 minutes ago, Mig said:

I plucked every orifice possible and no matter which way they come back. I followed around the garden and nothing around the house so they are under the house somewhere. They send scouts to check in and if they find one tiny thing they send platoons and now everything is sealed or in the fridge or in the freezer. Pest control is my last resort but I am trying not to so I can understand their beliefs in not killing.

Are they the little sugar ants?
 

We get those on occasion. But they aren’t an issue for me, and find other food sources when whatever got shmutzed is cleaned up.

 

 

[Mig]

16 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Are they the little sugar ants?
 

We get those on occasion. But they aren’t an issue for me, and find other food sources when whatever got shmutzed is cleaned up.

 

 

small and big ones all in between, it seems that wherever they go, they plant their eggs and more are coming to my end. I spend more than one hour patrolling all around the house especially the kitchen and keep it as clean as possible. So to kill or not to kill, that is the question?

[ilumairen]

9 minutes ago, Mig said:

small and big ones all in between, it seems that wherever they go, they plant their eggs and more are coming to my end. I spend more than one hour patrolling all around the house especially the kitchen and keep it as clean as possible. So to kill or not to kill, that is the question?

If there are big and small ones those aren’t sugar ants. 

As you don’t see anything outside, and suspect they’re under the house, carpenter ants would be a possibility:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_ant

 

The question of whether or not structural damage is occurring may supply an answer to your to kill or not to kill question.

 

 

[EmeraldHead]

13 hours ago, Mig said:

Both Daoist and Buddhism precepts is NOT to kill

I am saying that you see no innate motive to not kill them. You are already contemplating killing them. Dead rules don't make ambrosia, only dry bread.

[RobB]

I'm not aware of any Daoists precept against killing. I'm not sure I'm aware of any Daoist precepts now i think about it. 

[Mig]

2 hours ago, RobB said:

I'm not aware of any Daoists precept against killing. I'm not sure I'm aware of any Daoist precepts now i think about it. 

Quick search one can find the following:

十戒是：不杀生、不偷盗、不邪淫、不妄语、不饮酒、不涂饰、不歌舞及旁听、不坐高广大床、不非时食、不蓄金银财宝。

ten precepts:

1. Do not kill but always be mindful of the host of living beings.
2. Do not be lascivious or think depraved thoughts.
3. Do not steal or receive unrighteous wealth.
4. Do not cheat or misrepresent good and evil.
5. Do not get intoxicated but always think of pure conduct.
6. I will maintain harmony with my ancestors and family and never disregard my kin.
7. When I see someone do a good deed, I will support him with joy and delight.
8. When I see someone unfortunate, I will support him with dignity to recover good fortune.
9. When someone comes to do me harm, I will not harbor thoughts of revenge.
10. As long as all beings have not attained the Dao, I will not expect to do so myself.

[RobB]

2 hours ago, Mig said:

Quick search one can find the following:

十戒是：不杀生、不偷盗、不邪淫、不妄语、不饮酒、不涂饰、不歌舞及旁听、不坐高广大床、不非时食、不蓄金银财宝。

ten precepts:

 

Interesting - where are those from? I'll freely admit I know next to nothing about these things but they look more Confucian than Daoist to me. No 10 look more like a Bodhisattva-vow arrangement but then I dont know anything about Buddhism either :-)

[Mig]

1 hour ago, Bhathen said:

How does it feel when chopping veggies, mowing a lawn ...

 

 After a retreat once, the concept of no-killing weighed heavily on the mind. The more I thought about it, the more ants I could notice in the house. Tried to use baking soda, essential oils, fragrant powders, mothballs, tracking back with sugar... anything to get them off-trail. Frustration followed and I felt my actions were doing them more harm. They also have a mind and feelings, isn't it?

Stopped doing anything at all.

 

Finally, the ants stopped, and my thoughts too. Never figured which happened first. 

Maybe the emotional mind had taken over too much.

Veggies aren't part of our cycle of transformation. I wouldn't call that killing. The lawn is like the hair, if I don't trim it, it will go crazy. I tried everything possible for the ants, and nothing worked because I haven't found the colony. It is during summer when they invade wherever possible to find food. We keep the kitchen clean and most of everything now is in the fridge and freezer. Still they send scouts from places I would have never imagined. Now, the invasion is less but one little thing left of food they are there immediately. Still holding for pest control and hopefully when the summer season is over back to normality. If I stop doing anything, they will invade every space. It is a guerrilla war. It seems killing is inevitable.

[Master Logray]

On 8/14/2020 at 4:31 AM, RobB said:

 

Interesting - where are those from? I'll freely admit I know next to nothing about these things but they look more Confucian than Daoist to me. No 10 look more like a Bodhisattva-vow arrangement but then I dont know anything about Buddhism either :-)

 

These are very modern ones.

[ilumairen]

18 hours ago, Mig said:

Veggies aren't part of our cycle of transformation. I wouldn't call that killing. The lawn is like the hair, if I don't trim it, it will go crazy. I tried everything possible for the ants, and nothing worked because I haven't found the colony. It is during summer when they invade wherever possible to find food. We keep the kitchen clean and most of everything now is in the fridge and freezer. Still they send scouts from places I would have never imagined. Now, the invasion is less but one little thing left of food they are there immediately. Still holding for pest control and hopefully when the summer season is over back to normality. If I stop doing anything, they will invade every space. It is a guerrilla war. It seems killing is inevitable.

So, it will seasonally rectify itself? Without the need for angsty deliberations on your part? And the actions you have taken have already lessened the “invasion”?
 

I recall seeing a video of a question/answer session with TWR regarding the idea of generating compassion for all living beings, and swatting flies. (If I could recall where to find it for you I would, but it was only of passing interest to me, and my mind didn’t create a further pathway for recovery, apologies.) What he was asked was very similar to what you are asking, and his reply encompassed two points. The first was regarding the generation of karmic traces and creation of pain identities. It seems the more narrative we weave around something like swatting a fly, the more difficulty we may create for ourselves. The second was to humorously suggest that, of course, we don’t swat a fly landing on our arm while we are sitting on our cushions generating compassion for all living things - for rather obvious reasons.

 

They’re just hungry, and doing what ants do - completely indifferent to the suffering you are creating for yourself on their behalf.

[Mig]

On 8/15/2020 at 8:33 AM, ilumairen said:

So, it will seasonally rectify itself? Without the need for angsty deliberations on your part? And the actions you have taken have already lessened the “invasion”?
 

I recall seeing a video of a question/answer session with TWR regarding the idea of generating compassion for all living beings, and swatting flies. (If I could recall where to find it for you I would, but it was only of passing interest to me, and my mind didn’t create a further pathway for recovery, apologies.) What he was asked was very similar to what you are asking, and his reply encompassed two points. The first was regarding the generation of karmic traces and creation of pain identities. It seems the more narrative we weave around something like swatting a fly, the more difficulty we may create for ourselves. The second was to humorously suggest that, of course, we don’t swat a fly landing on our arm while we are sitting on our cushions generating compassion for all living things - for rather obvious reasons.

 

They’re just hungry, and doing what ants do - completely indifferent to the suffering you are creating for yourself on their behalf.

Indeed, when the season is over, they don't invade inside of the house even though they are busy in the garden doing their thing, the slave workers while the queen is having a good time, who knows. The reason of my question is because I don't understand the logic of no killing either in Daoism or Buddhism, when sometimes is inevitable if you don't want to be invaded and become a prisoner of your beliefs. So far, I put some left overs in the trash can and immediately they are there so I was able to track their platoons and see where they are coming from. It seems they are well hidden under the basement.

[Sketch]

A little diatomaceous earth in the right place goes a long way.

 

Make sure it's not caked - the ultra fine powdery particles get in their little spiracles, they don't like it and leave the area alone.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Sketch

[thelerner]

On 8/12/2020 at 4:43 PM, Mig said:

I didn't know where to post this one. I find the question may relate to Daoists or Buddhist beliefs about respecting life or not to kill. Recently, I was invaded by ants, even if there was no food around but the little they found, they will invade by hundreds that looks by thousands. Then after cleaning the house and kitchen, I decided to take a rest in the evening and little by little I found out I was attacked by mosquitoes. Then I bought a repellent plant that helped a little and dressed well to protect myself, and no, they will attack no matter what. So the question comes about, should I kill them or what should I do? Ants, don't give up so the only way I see is to kill them and stop their invasion. The mosquitoes, no matter what they will attack so I decided to avoid going out until it becomes cooler so they won't come at me. Since those religions preach not to kill, what do you do even if you try to persuade ants and mosquitoes or find other alternative and none of them works?

I take it you are not Buddhist or Daoist.  Do you mean to emulate them?   Join their religion? 

 

There are many Buddhists temples around in big cities.  You can walk into one.  Ask a lay person or clergy how they handle ants and stuff.   On the other hand if you're going there to argue about bugs, maybe don't bother.

 

I noticed you asked a similar question regarding vegetarianism.  If these thing truly interest you, hit the books.  Start with basics and go on from there.   I assume if you do your research properly you'll find there is more then one answer.  Still the philosophy you learn along the way will make it worthwhile.

[Mig]

Thelerner, you are very right, none of them but interested reading old scripts and trying to understand how people paraphrase or understand the commentaries of those old texts. The ants, I tried many options and none of the natural wonders didn't work until I found a natural poison where ants will bring to their colony and will die or will move to a different location. In the environment where I live there are plenty areas where they can eat what they need but for whatever reason this year they chose to invade the kitchen and even the house. Fortunately, the solution worked but they still persistent outside damaging some trees. The solution of offering different locations seems a short term solution, still I know they will come back and I can hear them saying: we shall return.

[Desmonddf]

On 13/08/2020 at 2:49 PM, Mig said:

Quick search one can find the following:

十戒是：不杀生、不偷盗、不邪淫、不妄语、不饮酒、不涂饰、不歌舞及旁听、不坐高广大床、不非时食、不蓄金银财宝。

ten precepts:

1. Do not kill but always be mindful of the host of living beings.
2. Do not be lascivious or think depraved thoughts.
3. Do not steal or receive unrighteous wealth.
4. Do not cheat or misrepresent good and evil.
5. Do not get intoxicated but always think of pure conduct.
6. I will maintain harmony with my ancestors and family and never disregard my kin.
7. When I see someone do a good deed, I will support him with joy and delight.
8. When I see someone unfortunate, I will support him with dignity to recover good fortune.
9. When someone comes to do me harm, I will not harbor thoughts of revenge.
10. As long as all beings have not attained the Dao, I will not expect to do so myself.

 

That feels so non-daoist.... it is practly a buddhist sumula, with even some "boddhisatvha" vow on the end. It makes no sense. Which book is this from?

 

On 12/08/2020 at 6:43 PM, Mig said:

I didn't know where to post this one. I find the question may relate to Daoists or Buddhist beliefs about respecting life or not to kill. Recently, I was invaded by ants, even if there was no food around but the little they found, they will invade by hundreds that looks by thousands. Then after cleaning the house and kitchen, I decided to take a rest in the evening and little by little I found out I was attacked by mosquitoes. Then I bought a repellent plant that helped a little and dressed well to protect myself, and no, they will attack no matter what. So the question comes about, should I kill them or what should I do? Ants, don't give up so the only way I see is to kill them and stop their invasion. The mosquitoes, no matter what they will attack so I decided to avoid going out until it becomes cooler so they won't come at me. Since those religions preach not to kill, what do you do even if you try to persuade ants and mosquitoes or find other alternative and none of them works?

 

 All the moral question asside, killing them probably won't work. Ants and mosquitoes are almost impossible to repel once and for all. They probably have infested your neighbours and/or kilometers around your house. You need to make it so they can't enter. Seal your windows with anti-mosquito screens and clean your floor with bleach every other day for 5 days. It should suffice.

[Mig]

On 8/13/2020 at 1:31 PM, RobB said:

 

Interesting - where are those from? I'll freely admit I know next to nothing about these things but they look more Confucian than Daoist to me. No 10 look more like a Bodhisattva-vow arrangement but then I dont know anything about Buddhism either :-)

The Ten Precepts of Initial Perfection (chuzhen shijie 初真十戒) parallel those found in the early eighth century Chuzhen shijie wen 初真十戒文 (Ten Precepts of Initial Perfection; DZ 180). The text is transmitted to ordinands of the first level of Quanzhen 全真 (Complete Perfection) and represents the school’s most fundamental guidelines and practical precepts. It also includes conduct guidelines for women entitled the Nüzhen jiujie 女真九戒 (Nine Precepts for FemalePerfected).

[thelerner]

16 hours ago, Mig said:

Thelerner, you are very right, none of them but interested reading old scripts and trying to understand how people paraphrase or understand the commentaries of those old texts. The ants, I tried many options and none of the natural wonders didn't work until I found a natural poison where ants will bring to their colony and will die or will move to a different location. In the environment where I live there are plenty areas where they can eat what they need but for whatever reason this year they chose to invade the kitchen and even the house. Fortunately, the solution worked but they still persistent outside damaging some trees. The solution of offering different locations seems a short term solution, still I know they will come back and I can hear them saying: we shall return.

You've probably tried cinnamon and some other spices can working as barriers.  And prevention, looking at the pantry and kitchen area, making sure there is no food or crumbs out.  Throwing out the garbage sooner, cleaning the floors, so old ant 'scent' trails are erased.  

 

If the problem is bad, kill the ants that have invaded your house, swat the mosquitoes that would bite you and perhaps spread disease, then do some good in another area, perhaps natural, to make up for it.   

 

In the West we live environmentally destructive lives.  The chocolate, the coffee, the bags, the beds, the cars, the ink, the gas.. it goes on and on.  We are environmentally destructive in a 1,000 ways, many of which we don't know about.  I've read arguments that spread out, living simply we, all 7 billion of us would actually do even more harm.  Cities contain us. 

 

Anyhow, the solution I have is pick the low hanging fruit, and try to do enough good to balance or beat the bad. 

[Rara]

On 17/09/2020 at 3:29 PM, Mig said:

The Ten Precepts of Initial Perfection (chuzhen shijie 初真十戒) parallel those found in the early eighth century Chuzhen shijie wen 初真十戒文 (Ten Precepts of Initial Perfection; DZ 180). The text is transmitted to ordinands of the first level of Quanzhen 全真 (Complete Perfection) and represents the school’s most fundamental guidelines and practical precepts. It also includes conduct guidelines for women entitled the Nüzhen jiujie 女真九戒 (Nine Precepts for FemalePerfected).

 

Hmm, well it could be accurate and unadulterated but I doubt this. Sounds like "sect" rules but bear in mind this is a school for training. The no-intoxication is a big clue to that, yet some Daoist priests drink wine, so....

 

I second the idea of aiming for prevention. If you have to kill, so be it but you should always aim to avoid this in future. Try not to be too overly sensitive to it, it'll drive ya mad (I've been there. Started crying once over ants...that's a bit much)

[Desmonddf]

On 17/09/2020 at 11:29 AM, Mig said:

The Ten Precepts of Initial Perfection (chuzhen shijie 初真十戒) parallel those found in the early eighth century Chuzhen shijie wen 初真十戒文 (Ten Precepts of Initial Perfection; DZ 180). The text is transmitted to ordinands of the first level of Quanzhen 全真 (Complete Perfection) and represents the school’s most fundamental guidelines and practical precepts. It also includes conduct guidelines for women entitled the Nüzhen jiujie 女真九戒 (Nine Precepts for FemalePerfected).

 

Things created 2000 years after LaoZi and people use the phrase "LaoZi said:". Something wrong ain't right.

[Earl Grey]

T.T. Liang once told Stuart Alve Olson that Confucians, Buddhists, and Taoists handle mosquitoes differently:

 

A Confucian would kill the mosquito because everything has its proper place and role in a hierarchy, and the mosquito has little significance to a man. 

 

A Buddhist would allow the mosquito to take some blood because everything deserves to live equally.

 

A Taoist will move if the mosquito keeps following him because it means that that place is the mosquito's and he will find his own place away from the mosquito.

 

Liang said sometimes he will be one of the three when appropriate. In the case of mosquitoes, he makes no hesitation to take the Confucian approach as he is not ever going to be strictly one or the other.