Return

[Mig]

I was wondering about the term return either fan, gui or fu as in DDJ 18 Return is the movement of the Dao among other chapters in which this term is used and certainly in the Yijing too. Talking with someone who has tried mushrooms as Magic mushrooms  that are wild or cultivated mushrooms that contain psilocybin, a naturally-occurring psychoactive and hallucinogenic compound. Where Psilocybin is considered one of the most well-known psychedelics, according to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administrations, mentioned me the point where you feel the return to yourself and being in contact with your inner self. I made me think about if this term is close to this kind of experience which probably shamans had lived testing different types of mushrooms. Any thoughts or clarification?

[idiot_stimpy]

Sorry this may help, it may not, it might be completely off topic, however to me, a return to yourself is to come in intimate contact with your being. In other words you become aware that you are aware, or you become conscious that you are conscious.

[Mig]

2 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Sorry this may help, it may not, it might be completely off topic, however to me, a return to yourself is to come in intimate contact with your being. In other words you become aware that you are aware, or you become conscious that you are conscious.

I understand, although it seems that getting back to return is not an easy task unless you are under the effects of some kind of drug, as far as I understand. It seems also we are conditioned since early childhood or by the system where you live in. This is where I wonder if this is the same return Daoists talk about.

[Bindi]

To me the return is to a whole state, after being torn apart, somewhat like this:

 

Spoiler

10 Now these were the visions of my mind while on my bed: I saw a tree in the midst of the earth, and its height was great. 11 The tree grew and became strong, and its height reached heaven, and it was visible to the end of all the earth. 12 Its leaves were fair, and its fruit much, and in it was food for all. The animals of the field had shadow under it, and the fowl of the heavens lived in its boughs, and all flesh was fed of it.

13 “I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and there was a holy watcher coming down from heaven. 14 He cried aloud and said thus: ‘Hew down the tree and cut off its branches, shake off its leaves and scatter its fruit. Let the animals get away from under it, and the fowl from its branches. 15 Nevertheless leave the stump of its roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and bronze, in the tender grass of the field.

“ ‘And let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let its portion be with the animals in the grass of the earth. 16 Let its heart be changed from that of a man, let him be given the heart of an animal. And let seven periods of time pass over it.

17 “ ‘This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones, in order that the living may know that the Most High rules over the kingdom of men and gives it to whomever He wills and sets up over it the basest of men.’

For me the return in a Daoist sense is a return to the full natural functioning of our body and spirit via a return to functioning of the channels and Dan Tians, which if achieved would seem extraordinary. 
 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Bindi

[idiot_stimpy]

10 hours ago, Mig said:

I understand, although it seems that getting back to return is not an easy task unless you are under the effects of some kind of drug...

 

 

To some it can take countless life times. The danger of using drugs is they become a dependency to access the return. I also want to mention drugs can unlock doors within the mind that should not be unlocked. Once they're open they may not be able to be closed. 

[silent thunder]

I'm a proponent of Entheogens and their benefits and usefulness in exploring one's awareness and the underpinnings that lay often beneath/beyond the ken of our usual consciousness to access.

 

I've experienced two breakthroughs and the catalyzation of realizations of life changing proportions and magnitude through the influence of the spirit of psilocybin mushrooms.  Two trips in particular were paramount in releasing the inertia of trauma and coming to understand the destructive underpinnings of behaviors and methods I'd been utilizing to manage trauma energies for decades prior to the wakening experiences. 

 

Those two experiences catalyzed insights that were invaluably beneficial and whose influential shifts still abide to this day.

 

The Entheogen classes of hallucinogenic plant spirits are potent non-habit forming aids in my experience and can have lasting sustainable insights brought to the fore.  I'm deeply grateful for their lessons.

 

 

[Mig]

3 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I'm a proponent of Entheogens and their benefits and usefulness in exploring one's awareness and the underpinnings that lay often beneath/beyond the ken of our usual consciousness to access.

 

I've experienced two breakthroughs and the catalyzation of realizations of life changing proportions and magnitude through the influence of the spirit of psilocybin mushrooms.  Two trips in particular were paramount in releasing the inertia of trauma and coming to understand the destructive underpinnings of behaviors and methods I'd been utilizing to manage trauma energies for decades prior to the wakening experiences. 

 

Those two experiences catalyzed insights that were invaluably beneficial and whose influential shifts still abide to this day.

 

The Entheogen classes of hallucinogenic plant spirits are potent non-habit forming aids in my experience and can have lasting sustainable insights brought to the fore.  I'm deeply grateful for their lessons.

 

 

The problem I have now is that there are several terms for return fan, gui or fu. Fu as returning to the roots and found in the Yijing:

Hexagram Fu.
The light, symbolized by the first yang line on bottom of the hexagram is returning and begins its ascension up to the top of the hexagram, removing the yin, dark, lines