Am I who you think I am?

[doc benway]

I often look at my choices and activity here. I wonder how my engagement with all of you here is similar or different to my meat-life? Do I react in similar ways? Do I focus on similar aspects of self and other in relationship? What are my triggers and my juice? I learn things about myself when I do this but it can be painful. Just thought I’d share that.

[old3bob]

well as for the subject of title...I'd say no, we are not who we think we are, for thinking or thoughts can never contain It.

[liminal_luke]

Steve,

 

Just to riff a little...

 

I think most of us are different in different contexts.  My partner sees a different side of me than my friends and family, for instance.  Many people are markedly different at work versus at play.  There´s recently been some discussion of a DaoBums retreat and I expressed some reluctance to attend.  Reading your OP post Steve, I realize my reluctance stems from the difference in my online persona and how I might come off in person.  I´ve invested literally years into building relationships with people here online.  To what extent these relationships are "real" I don´t know, but they feel real to me.  The way I present myself online is me, but it´s not the fully embodied me that people would see at a retreat.  What if people who´ve come to like me online met me in person and decided, nope, that Luke dude isn´t as together as we previously thought?!  That would be tragic.

 

In thinking about the various iterations of ourselves we present to the world, it´s natural to wonder...which of these guises is the real me?  Is the me I am at work, for instance, more or less authentic than the me I am with my friends or online?  I believe that all the versions of myself out there in the world, however varied, have a little bit of the real Luke Jesse in them.  The person people know here is me but it´s a whittled down wordy version.  I like to think people would accept the unathletic and sometimes insecure man behind the curtain if given a chance but I´ll probably never know.

 

Anywho...this very likely has nothing to do with what you were thinking in your OP but it´s what your thoughts brought forth in me.  Thought I´d share. 

 

 

[doc benway]

Exactly what I was thinking Jesse...

Like old3bob points out, none of those Steves I portray in life are actually who I am.

In my tradition, we refer to those as pain identities - limited aspects of ourselves that arise in relation to some role, or relationship, or stimulus. We generally think of "me" as being whichever of those identities is active in the current moment.

What I created this thread for, however, was more to explore my DaoBums persona and how that relates to the variety of personas I inhabit in my day to day. Not so much with the intention of transcending ignorance and connecting with the absolute Nature of Myself, but rather to become a bit more aware of who I am when I am here. Why I make certain choices, post certain things and not others, etc...

Mostly an invitation to anyone with similar interests to look at this in themselves.

And to discover different perspectives on the topic as I have already done thanks to you and old3bob.

Thanks for the replies. 

[Giles]

This phenomenon, which you label "pain identities", is described in detail by the Internal Family System.  Usually people are stuck in Manager or Firefighter personality constructs protecting their Exiles but IFS has developed a tried and tested methodology for accessing the real Self, the source of all healing, which lies at the heart of the matter. The "pain identities" are then liberated by allowing the real Self to take the executive position. The more that you're able to identify with the universal Self, the more authentic will be your relationship both with yourself and with others. The most surprising thing for many is that it was discovered that the Self is fundamentally the same in everyone and that it has various identifiable qualities such as compassion, curiousity, kindness, peacefulness, calm, clarity, connectedness, empathy, confidence, self-assurance, humility, self-respect, courage, warmth, creativity, contentedness, happiness, sense of humour, acceptance, intuition, sense of purpose and it is also a refuge and provider of protection. This is not an exhaustive list.

[Earl Grey]

To most people, Archie Bunker appears to be a naive bigot. To his wife, he was “honey” and “darling”. To his children, he was “dad”. To those who gave him a chance in the word of “All in the Family”, he had made great gains, and in his succeeding show, the character of Archie was ultimately a different person who had grown out of that in “Archie Bunker’s Place.” But many will focus only on the less savory moments and ignore growth or change.

 

Most people will not see this growth context in you or me and anyone else. Most people do not want to accept or hear your story aside from how it fits into their individual story. That is fine. Just be sure your own story is not a rigid narrative, if the lessons that Gene Wolfe and J.D. Salinger offer are anything to go by about the unreliable narrator and being a hero in one’s own mind. By equal measure, be careful of the gossip that makes you question if you’ve become the villain just because someone has made you the dragon in their fantasy, causing you to wonder how much of their truth is reality compared to how much your own truth is reality.

 

tl;dr: facets, Steve. Facets. Like a gemstone, some angles look better than others. But these angles do not change the actual value of the gemstone, for better or for worse.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Earl Grey

[manitou]

15 hours ago, steve said:

 I wonder how my engagement with all of you here is similar or different to my meat-life? 

 

 

 

Thing is, I think your meat-life is right here.

 

It amazes me how much of the child I still have inside me.  There is something in there that hasn't aged at all and I still feel like a little kid much of the time.  I never feel like an 'adult', whatever that is.  And yet, I can look back and see that I've made many adult decisions.  I just don't know who the heck that person was...

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by manitou

[Limahong]

15 hours ago, steve said:

Am I who you think I am?

 

Hi steve,

 

Am I who I think I am?

I believe I must answer the 'I question' first before I address the 'thread question'.

If I cannot answer the former ~ then I should/will/cannot... address the latter.

 

15 hours ago, steve said:

I wonder how my engagement with all of you here is similar or different to my meat-life? Do I react in similar ways? Do I focus on similar aspects of self and other in relationship? What are my triggers and my juice? 

 

To me you are consistently/honestly/... respectful ~ if the is what you meant by 'similar'. 

 

15 hours ago, steve said:

I learn things about myself when I do this but it can be painful.

 

It is natural to experience the 'painful' when you learningful.

 

By the way ~ you have not caused me any pain... yet.

 

- Anand

 

 

[old3bob]

if "Self" evolved then it could also devolve, if it could be gained then it could be lost....in the meantime soul which does evolve is meant to be noble, or of noble aspects.  

[Limahong]

11 minutes ago, manitou said:

Thing is, I think your meat-life is right here.

 

I thought steve is a vegetarian.

 

Luckily I did not address ~ Am I who you think I am?

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Limahong
Correction

[Limahong]

10 minutes ago, old3bob said:

If "Self" evolved then it could also devolve, if it could be gained then it could be lost...

 

... provided everything does not dissolve away.

 

 

[silent thunder]

I've always appreciated the Druidic definition of who we are...

 

We are always three in one.

 

We are who we think we are.

We are who others think we are.

And we are who we really are, (which is neither of the other two).

 

It's one big soup and thinking and labeling is an ever shifting smear, glazed along the surface... like colorful oil atop water pools.

[Limahong]

5 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

It's one big soup and thinking and labeling is an ever shifting smear, glazed along the surface... like colorful oil atop water pools.

 

 

Hi Creighton,

 

You got me ~ hungry, craving, suffering...

Why? We are still in partial COVID-19 lock-down mode.

 

I will take some biscuits and milk before I sleep.

 

Good night.

 

- Anand

 

[neti neti]

20 hours ago, steve said:

I often look at my choices and activity here. I wonder how my engagement with all of you here is similar or different to my meat-life? Do I react in similar ways? Do I focus on similar aspects of self and other in relationship? What are my triggers and my juice? I learn things about myself when I do this but it can be painful. Just thought I’d share that.

 

Could you elaborate on why you believe such learning of oneself is painful?

[doc benway]

40 minutes ago, neti neti said:

 

Could you elaborate on why you believe such learning of oneself is painful?

Not a belief, just sharing my experience.

Some of the things I’ve observed over time have caused negative emotions to arise. That’s what I’m referring to as painful. Painful doesn’t mean bad, usually the opposite. That pain is exposing areas where there may be resistance or attachment - things to liberate and grow with.

[CloudHands]

I did not read what was written before, I will do it later.

 

The best (erroneous) feedback I can give you is the vocal tone I put on your writings. I read you with a very soft, rather low voice almost mellow. Like someone that reached some level of peacefulness through stubborn self control.

 

I think you are very sensitive and you find with Buddhism a way to deal with it. Maybe a tad of cowardice ?

 

So...  not very lively and spontaneous but extremely steady and balanced. Also gentle and compassionate.

[Limahong]

3 hours ago, CloudHands said:

The best (erroneous) feedback I can give you is the vocal tone I put on your writings.

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

If it is going to be erroneous ~ may I suggest that you do not feedback?

 

- Anand

 

[liminal_luke]

On 23/8/2020 at 5:11 AM, Limahong said:

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

If it is going to be erroneous ~ may I suggest that you do not feedback?

 

- Anand

 

 

That´s hilarious, Anand -- thanks!  Just the same, I would welcome erroneous feedback from @CloudHands.  As erroneous feedback goes, I think CloudHand´s is some of the best.

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

I would welcome erroneous feedback from @CloudHands.  As erroneous feedback goes, I think CloudHand´s is some of the best.

 

Hi Jesse,

 

I am new to erroneous feedback at TDB re  @CloudHands. 

 

- Anand

 

[manitou]

Me too, but I'm looking forward to it.

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, manitou said:

Me too, but I'm looking forward to it.

 

I am wondering if @CloudHands is up to some mischief ~ a troublemaker.

 

If so ~ I will keep my distance and I advise you to do likewise.

 

Nowadays social distancing is quite a norm.

 

We never know ~ better to be safe than sorry.

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Limahong
Enhancement

[manitou]

7 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

I am wondering if @CloudHands is up to some mischief ~ a troublemaker.

 

If so ~ I will keep my distance and I advise you to do likewise.

 

Nowadays social distancing is quite a norm.

 

We never know ~ better to be safe than sorry.

 

 

 

 

Thanx once again, big brother.  You know I have always followed your advice.  Even when I put that frog in the blender.  Mom was a little ticked, but dad got it fer sure.

[Geof Nanto]

On 23/08/2020 at 2:08 AM, steve said:

What I created this thread for, however, was more to explore my DaoBums persona and how that relates to the variety of personas I inhabit in my day to day. Not so much with the intention of transcending ignorance and connecting with the absolute Nature of Myself, but rather to become a bit more aware of who I am when I am here. Why I make certain choices, post certain things and not others, etc...

 

I find this forum is a great place to learn about the psyche of people on a spiritual path, and hence to know myself better.  The whole dynamic of discussion here interests me, as much if not more so than the actual content.  I note which topics gain interest, how the discussion flows, what power plays are active, etc etc. Currently I’m interested to see how the forum develops under the new moderator team with its emphasis on providing a safe place for discussion. 

 

The members who post frequently make great research subjects.  Over time they reveal plenty about themselves outside their intent, including glimpses of their shadow side. My intuition about other people is generally good, but dismal when it comes to knowing myself. (From my observation, we are all like that, with those who claim perfect insight into themselves the most blind.)  Hence I mostly get to know hidden aspects of myself through reflection. For instance, I note my reactions to comments and examine how I feel; especially when my emotions are aroused. That’s an indicator of something important bubbling up just below the threshold of my consciousness.  
 

[Geof Nanto]

14 hours ago, CloudHands said:

I did not read what was written before, I will do it later.

 

The best (erroneous) feedback I can give you is the vocal tone I put on your writings. I read you with a very soft, rather low voice almost mellow. Like someone that reached some level of peacefulness through stubborn self control.

 

I think you are very sensitive and you find with Buddhism a way to deal with it. Maybe a tad of cowardice ?

 

So...  not very lively and spontaneous but extremely steady and balanced. Also gentle and compassionate.

 

And with that comment this topic becomes very real, perhaps too real. 

 

Something fundamental I learnt from my days as a shiatsu therapist is to never point out anyone’s shadow unless I can be genuinely and fully supportive of them. Otherwise I will simply arouse a fierce hatred from them. Even if asked wouldn’t do so here because it’s powerful stuff. Very emotive. It’s not something for discussion on a public forum. If what you’ve said is real, and I suspect it is, my heart goes out to Steve. My hope is Cloud Hands judgement is good, and Steve is able to handle it.  Though for me it’s aroused much emotion. A taboo has been violated; an arrow shot into someone's heart.  

[CloudHands]

54 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

I am wondering if @CloudHands is up to some mischief ~ a troublemaker.

 

If so ~ I will keep my distance and I advise you to do likewise.

 

Nowadays social distancing is quite a norm.

 

We never know ~ better to be safe than sorry.

 

 

 

When I guess at someone I don't know (I don't pretend to know anyone I haven't met) I think it's better to consider my opinion as at least partially erroneous.

Erroneous comes from the french word "erroné (erroneus)" which means "not exact".

50% of the english words came from french -not from latin as some pretend. I play a lot with that when I write in English because most of the time they are equivalent.

Sometimes something is lost in translation... but it even happens within one language...

Edited August 23, 2020 by CloudHands