retention

[mantis]

so, i suppose i am known on this forum as a supporter of it but i am beginning to question it... when i have bowel movements (since the beginning) i used to notice a type of paste in the water that wouldn't mix and i have always disregarded it but now i'm thinking twice. today i had a good run (50 minutes!) and when i went to use the bathroom (bowel movement) i looked and i saw my urine was very thick, in fact it resembled everything sperm does but it was yellow. it was stuck on the toilet and i took a cotton swab and took some and it was somewhat sticky.

 

i know i didn't have a retrograde because i don't get that close in coming to ejaculation, so what could this be? i am beginning to doubt this practice and might even abandon it, it's dealing with things that cannot be replaced.

[Procurator]

today i had a good run (50 minutes!) and when i went to use the bathroom (bowel movement) i looked and i saw my urine was very thick,

what did your saliva look or felt like?

[sunshine]

You know my thoughts on the topic of retention and still:

 

http://www.malesexualneeds.com/semen-and-sperm.html

 

there is a part about color

 

 

Harry

[mantis]

Another possible cause for yellow semen could be the natural thickening of semen; especially if you have not ejaculated for quite some time.

 

i stopped retention, although i think it's great i have to stop being an idiot; this isn't something you ought to take likely and unless i find a teacher and a system in which the practices are taught i'm not going down that path again.

 

besides, whats the point in having dry orgasms for them to just go down the toilet

[sunshine]

besides, whats the point in having dry orgasms for them to just go down the toilet

 

So true To the other part of your post: great decision I feel it indeed to be

 

Harry

[jacq]

If you're examining every body fluid and excretion this minutely, maybe you're too self absorbed...

Maybe you should get your head out of the toilet bowl and just live!

[mantis]

well, i don't know about you but i am not comfortable with pasty secretions leaking from my penis, maybe i'm just different though?

[宁]

more than a couple of people warned you about these things... i suggest you should check yourself up for a infection in that area. who knows how many years you will need to repair the damage... for instance, if you step on a plant when it is young, it will take it longer to grow, and will never reach the size and potency of an adult plant. your case, and others, should be a warning as in: not messing with your body if you dont really understand what it is you are doing. no offence.

 

 

Edit: the worse thing is people come around blaming retention practices based on case like yours... hence the responsibility of any practicioner for what he/she is practicing... belive it or not, when we start to go public, one way or another we become refference points...

Edited March 25, 2008 by Little1

[bd2]

i looked and i saw my urine was very thick, in fact it resembled everything sperm does but it was yellow. it was stuck on the toilet and i took a cotton swab and took some and it was somewhat sticky.

 

I have this problem myself and know exactly how you feel. I believe that this problem can be solved on a long term basis by abstaining from sexual activities and do grounding exercises (Tai Chi, Standing meditation, Sitting meditation, Yoga) intensively. I believe that semen gets into the urin because of weak kidneys.

Kidneys get weak because of stress, intensive sexual activity, insufficient sleep, too much mental activities (i.e. watching TV in your free time) etc. further information

Edited March 25, 2008 by bd2

[sunshine]

I have this problem myself and know exactly how you feel. I believe that this problem can be solved on a long term basis by abstaining from sexual activities and do grounding exercises (Tai Chi, Standing meditation, Sitting meditation, Yoga) intensively. I believe that semen gets into the urin because of weak kidneys.

Kidneys get weak because of stress, intensive sexual activity, insufficient sleep, too much mental activities (i.e. watching TV in your free time) etc. further information

 

Some things do not necessarily need to be explained with Chinese terminology and it is necessary not to mix up Western and Chinese diagnosis. On a simple anatomical level messing around with retention the different way might damage seminal vesicles, the prostate etc. etc. etc.

 

If the link I was provoding above was read carefully it got mentioned that long time no ejaculation might lead to mentioned change in color? The worrysome part is when one has damaged once system so far that retrograde ejaculation into the urinary bladder becomes "natural"... not so good. Infections sure enough are to keep in mind as well. Needs to get checked by an urologist!

 

 

Harry

[宁]

i second that.

please, forget the "do it yourself" attitude. when it comes to these things, it's very faulty.

seek the advice of a specialist.

 

 

good luck

 

L1

[bd2]

i second that.

please, forget the "do it yourself" attitude. when it comes to these things, it's very faulty.

seek the advice of a specialist.

good luck

 

L1

 

To me, it is very obvious that my urine would not be foamy if i ejaculated every day or every second day. I also ejaculate once in a while, and after i did, the foam in the urine is less thick and its volume is lower.

[Andrei]

check your imbalance of Yin/Yang energy with this table:

http://sacredlotus.com/diagnosis/yinyang_table.cfm

 

at your age retention is unnatural.

retention should be done normally after age 30-35... maybe later in life

[Procurator]

 

at your age retention is unnatural.

retention should be done normally after age 30-35... maybe later in life

another life shortening advice - this forum is full of knowlegable and kind ppl

[jacq]

I have this problem myself and know exactly how you feel. I believe that this problem can be solved on a long term basis by abstaining from sexual activities and do grounding exercises (Tai Chi, Standing meditation, Sitting meditation, Yoga) intensively. I believe that semen gets into the urin because of weak kidneys.

Kidneys get weak because of stress, intensive sexual activity, insufficient sleep, too much mental activities (i.e. watching TV in your free time) etc. further information

[mantis]

another life shortening advice - this forum is full of knowlegable and kind ppl

 

i like retention and if i had a teacher to guide me i'd still be doing it but too much is at risk to just try and say the hell with it, especially at my age

[jacq]

No offense dude, but you need to study a little anatomy. The kidneys have notheing to do with semen - they are separate systems. Nor do sexual activity, mental activity, sleep, etc. alter kidney function. The kidneys are the primary regulators of acid/base balance in your body - if their function fluctuated so whimsically, we'd all die much younger deaths, and definitely wouldn't be able to withstand the abuses we put our bodies through when we're young.

[宁]

To me, it is very obvious that my urine would not be foamy if i ejaculated every day or every second day. I also ejaculate once in a while, and after i did, the foam in the urine is less thick and its volume is lower.

 

What seems obvious to us, may mean something else to an expert. Please stop drawing conclusions based on what you heard here and there; because when it comes to making changes, the mind has to undergo a special training in order to allow it to become natural...

Otherwise we only get an ego inflammation that will naturally lead to... failure.

Remember the body-mind acts like one,

and any change in the habits of the body, be it nutrition, sleep or sex or etc,

has to be accompanied by a change of a simmilar magnitude,

in your mind, attitude, view, understanding.

 

AND VICEVERSA... if you want to engage in mental or meditative practice, your body has to undergo a special training, to be able to receive the benefits of the mind-work.

 

AND OF COURSE... personal training is but one quarter of the work that a practicioner has to undergo. There are four others fields of his life that need to grow at simmilar speed with the training. Otherwise... is hard, unwise and not very statisfactory. On the long term, feelings of deep regret and unfulfillment become a hard burden.

 

SHOULD BE ADDED... that personal training, even of the Five Fields Of Live, is still insufficient for greater purposes. The man can have an insignificant understanding of his purpose, if he doesnt add the practices of the Earth and Heavens.

 

There is a lot to do, a lot to understand, a lot to allow to happen, a lot of small things that need to be fed everyday, the smaller they are, the more important. So many of them depend only on the common sense, and people would be safer and a lot more happier practicing them.

It is a very strong foundation, and can mean a really nice accomplishment only in itself.

 

 

These are delicate matters, temper-temper...

 

 

good luck

 

L1

Edited March 26, 2008 by Little1

[Taoist81]

No offense dude, but you need to study a little anatomy. The kidneys have notheing to do with semen - they are separate systems. Nor do sexual activity, mental activity, sleep, etc. alter kidney function. The kidneys are the primary regulators of acid/base balance in your body - if their function fluctuated so whimsically, we'd all die much younger deaths, and definitely wouldn't be able to withstand the abuses we put our bodies through when we're young.

 

He is not talking about physical anatomy. In Chinese Medicine the Kidneys rule essence, and thus seminal fluids (along with general body fluid). They relate to greying of hair, hearing and memory loss, lower back pain and loss of sexual function with age (i.e. as Kidney essence is exhausted through living).

 

At the same time, most Chinese medical texts (including the Nei Jing) point out that moderate sexual activity is natural and healthy. (Even Plain Girl recommended an "ejaculation schedule" to the Yellow Emperor.) It was the later developed Taoist sects that promoted the idea that ejaculation should be avoided entirely, not the medical/health groups.

 

On another note, retention in and of itself is not inherently dangerous. The associated practices (the qigongs and meditations) appear to be. This can be acertained from the fact that groups like the Oneida practiced absolute retention (mantis, they even had young guys sleep with postmenopausal women until they could control themselves perfectly, so age is not necessarily an issue) and none of the problems reported by those who attempt to practice Taoist retention methods. Anatomically semen breaks down naturally if it is not used. Of course, if it is not used the body also begins making less of it, and thus less of the associated hormones (which could certainly be less safe for a young guy who needs his hormones for proper development).

[mantis]

the thing is they where having sex, not masturbating, how would i explain to a girl my age "sorry babe i can't cum"

 

i loved my retention practice all up until yellow sperm came out of my penis while peeing, then i learned it's not something to be played around with.

[Taoist81]

the thing is they where having sex, not masturbating, how would i explain to a girl my age "sorry babe i can't cum"

 

i loved my retention practice all up until yellow sperm came out of my penis while peeing, then i learned it's not something to be played around with.

 

 

Girls around your age (a few years older) take it quite well. You don't want to say "can't" though. Rather say you don't want to. Women (especially those used to younger guys) are far too accustom to guys going early to be disappointed if you don't "go". It only takes a second to inform her, then make sure she understands you still enjoy it just as much. Often they will want you to cum every now and then (often just because they enjoy the feeling of you cumming) but most won't mind if you don't most of the time.

As for the Oneida's you are right, they were having intercourse. However physiologically speaking, there is no difference. There is still arousal, plateau and (if you so choose) climax. The nervous system runs through the same phases, the difference is the "feeling" and "energy".

[mat black]

Retention "re-tension"

If one tries to forcefully prevent ejaculation it can create "re (more, excessive) tension" in that part of the body and other areas too. Maybe the word retention is not the best, maybe we could instead say 'opening, tranformation, circulation' etc

One of the mental aspects:

When we have desire, it is a projection outwards. Desire for anything creates a pull of your energy away from yourself, you can actually feel it in your being, it's the begining of loss..........

Most, not all but most sex acts is based on desire (outward projection, 'wanting something/one') the body simply follows the minds directive and sooner or later forces the sperm out- wards toward the object of desire.

So the mind and it's motives for having sex in the first place are paramount to consider. Is it an outward projection of desire, or an expression of sharing love that is calm, relaxed and full of respect and sincerity? Wanting nothing, not even to 'feel good'.

(this question isn't directed at anyone in particular, it's just handy to consider)

It all starts from the mind and it's motives.

 

One physical aspect.

If you take the analogy of traffic on the road. When the cars build up at the traffic lights, it causes congestion, especially on a one way street. In order to ease the congestion, we wait for the lights to turn green (is that the colour that other countries use too? )...........................or, instead getting to the lights, we do a u-turn.

But in order to do a u-turn, we need:

-enough space on the road

-put the car into reverse.

Im not trying to be flippant, but in order to avoid traffic congestion and seminal congestion redirection capacity and redirection pathways are needed.

 

The redirection capacity is made more efficient by converting the liquid jing into qi (gas). This takes skill and (usually) some time to become proficient at. Specific techniques can be very helpful in this aspect.

 

The redirection pathways of the body need to be open if the sperm is not to stagnate and congest, otherwise it might be more healthy to allow it to release.

One way of opening up redirection pathways is to practice dao yin. Daoyin can corect the structure of the body, clear the channels and allow qi to flow.

Massage helps also.

Also, meditation investigating the mind, investigating the body....................internal space, opening, being relaxed, calm, respect, moderation, non-atatchment to outcomes these are all so important, very important.

Actually, when these are practiced regularlly, 'retention' can happen naturally without much effort, because all of the other other pre-requisites are being met.

 

Don't forget that even if the mental side of the equation is adressed, the body can sometimes take a while to respond to change due to the momentum of past habituations. So many times, seminal emission might still occur. The body might need a little time to adjust, so we should always be kind to ourself. Don't force, don't rush, investigate the mind and motives, open, open open.

Whoa, can't believe how much i just typed

Edited March 27, 2008 by mat black

[Eric23]

Retention "re-tension"

Whoa, can't believe how much i just typed

 

Thanks for getting carried away Hit the nail squarely on the head.

[松永道]

I asked my teacher today about retention. He said it's crazy to start too soon, too young, or without an accompanying practice that is designed to be used with it. Retention is not part of neigong's foundation. It is used for specific cultivation and for old men!

 

The more time I spend in China, the more I'm realizing some of the notions I learned in the states are bent waaay out of proportion. Before I came I would hear the way a masters lived and then say, AH! OK! So that's the rule to live by! And it's just crazy. There are no absolute rules. You practice different things at different stages.

 

You can't rush this stuff. Fast is slow, slow is fast. It takes a whole lot longer to clean up a mess than it does to make it.

 

Ditto Re-tension.

[mantis]

i feel a lot better while practicing retention though, seriously now i see that i don't have a sex drive, i have an ejaculation drive, which is what i believe people really have and that may be why sex is usually only 5-15 minutes. i don't want to sit and enjoy i want to ejaculate and be on my way.

 

i am really thinking retention is better, i am considering doing it again and following the ayp system with spinal breathing.