A message to the moderators

[Apech]

13 minutes ago, dwai said:

Not meant to be a derailment, I just wanted to express my fascination at how much I learnt in terms of urban jargon (doxx, incel, etc etc) after reading this thread...I'm only partly jesting here...I had to google these terms.  

 

 

If there were no incels Mantak Chia would be out of business.

 

 

[dwai]

19 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Luke, my son, 'psychologist party-goer' is almost an oxymoron, let's face it.

 

 

Why...are you suggesting that Psychologists don't know how to party?  

[liminal_luke]

@Earl Grey

 

Just wanted to say that I´m glad we´re all having this dialogue.  It seems to me like your responses are being seriously considered by the moderation team.  I´m hoping that you´ll end up feeling heard and respected.

[Earl Grey]

10 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

@Earl Grey

 

Just wanted to say that I´m glad we´re all having this dialogue.  It seems to me like your responses are being seriously considered by the moderation team.  I´m hoping that you´ll end up feeling heard and respected.

 

I'm going to rest in a moment but will be replying evenings my time for whatever warrants my response on this thread, which would be mornings for most of you. 

[moment]

2 hours ago, steve said:

 

I think this could be very valuable.

 

Reading criticisms of the mod team in a restricted sub-forum where we are not welcome to respond and participate does little to help us reconcile and move forward as a community. I would hope that concerns about moderation be brought forward publicly, or privately to individual mods, so that we have an opportunity to better ourselves and better serve the community. Of course if people simply want to vent about us there is always PM and email.

 

I can see that I have been overly reactive in the recent past and I am committed to turning this around or stepping down. I’m not here to be a tyrant or because I’m on a power trip. I simply found the alt-right DaoBums and the wild wild west DaoBums untenable for me so I decided to get involved to try to improve conditions here. If I can not do better by all of you I am happy to pass the torch. I’m not referring to myself because it is all about me, simply because I can only speak for myself.
 

Given the openness of communication going on right now, I feel we have a real opportunity for progress but it will take a little flexibility and vulnerability all round.

 

I was tempted to say that there is too much dwelling going on (multiple occasions, multiple participants).  But, if people need to work things out; that too, has its' place.  Poisons can not just be wished away.

I have actually been sensing a break-through lately, and that pleases me.

[moment]

46 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

If there were no incels Mantak Chia would be out of business.

 

 

Yep, Mantak knows his audience and how to make a buck off them (a hell of a lot of bucks).

Edited September 3, 2020 by moment

[Cleansox]

7 minutes ago, moment said:

Yep, Mantak knows his audience and how to make a buck off them (a hell of a lot of bucks).

But does he know how to make a buck out of them? 

[moment]

2 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

But does he know how to make a buck out of them? 

 

Not likely

[doc benway]

16 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

I made no such request--you initiated it yourself as a reaction to my distrust for you.

 

 

Excellent, glad to know.

 

 

You didn't need to be a mod to speak up for someone who was being attacked, which you had done before when you saw me as attacking people, which I did at the time, whether it was gendao or Everything (the former of whom I resolved my conflict with voluntarily and free of others, and still to this day miss his presence because I had seen him grow significantly from the lessons of our conflict). 

 

As for keeping your head down, I believe the following maxim is appropriate: "Evil succeeds only when good men stand by and do nothing."

 

 

The web cache as of today no longer can be found, but it certainly exists in the archives you moderators can see after it was hidden by Spotless himself after he "felt attacked", which is baffling given that he initiated the passive-aggressive behavior and somehow didn't expect someone to pick up the gauntlet. 

 

 

What you consider "attacks" to me are speaking in general terms of someone who has no understanding of tradition and groups it all as New Age--something that under the Karen and dawei group would not have garnered a response since it could be anyone. The difference between that and Spotless is that it could be nobody else but me, and what I said is something that criticized what any unschooled individuals can say, which is sadly not uncommon on this forum too. 

 

Unless it's written in the forum rules specifically, I see it as no problem, and until it is amended, I see what I have done as no problem, but if it does become a problem, then I will adjust as per the rules. Until then, this is creating impromptu responses to something with no precedent, and to me carries significant bias given your explanation again in my prior suspension that it was based off of prior history of me "bullying and abusing" then saying to me "being polite" and then refusing my explanation as being bullshit.

 

 

Your actions show me less of the kind of Buddhism you describe as your own lineage and sound more like solipsism. It is the fire escape of accountability, wherein you say that all problems are from the mind and don't exist, as though it were me who has the problem and you who do not and have not committed any error and can broach the dangerous territory of insufferable nature. 

 

Interestingly, I am not the only one who has read your interactions with me in that suspension thread and here who has drawn similar conclusions, but I am simply the most vocal about it because I have to advocate for myself. 

 

 

I never asked for immunity. What I instead bring that all up for is because you focus purely on that instead of the whole picture, lacking the wisdom of Solomon in making such judgment.

 

 

Let's see: laughing at the comment ilumairen asked about silent thunder responding to my thread and making the comment about mastercard about the visa system indicates you are having fun. The question I pose is if you think this is helpful at all or what you think you are communicating to me and to others. 

 

As for demonizing, as much as I think the name "Stevil" is hilarious, you have yet to earn my scorn. I might swear at you from behind the computer screen and to my friends in our chat group, but otherwise, you'll need to do a lot more for me to earn real scorn. What earns my scorn are predators, perverts, and scammers. You, Steve, are following your current programming--something that you may not see has been hacked. 

 

 

How easy it is for the one who caused the grief to let it go and be unable to see that the one who was wronged struggles to let it go so easily, much like Charles Bronson remains in prison in the UK and treated worse than serial killers and rapists. I mention him of course because like me, he has an extreme personality and aversion to excruciating circumstances--which don't help his case due to the prison system. 

 

 

Fantastic.

 

 

I may be the most vocal, but I'm not the only one who sees the mammalian politics at play here. 

 

I hope this ends our discussion because I've made my points and you've stuck to your stance, but for the purpose of the rest of the board and mod team, at least this penultimate post before I respond to liminal luke and ilumairen will give more context and complexities as opposed to mere caricature. 

 

I replied to Earl personally. 

I would like to share publicly that I do think he has some valid points about my actions here.

I can see that I dehumanized him.

I apologize for that. 

I can also see that I'm a bit overly sensitive, perhaps as a result of the prolonged periods of lawlessness and alt-right gas-lighting.

Maybe as a result of wanting to do a good job as a moderator.

I am committed to taking responsibility for my actions and to trying to understand the perspectives of others, especially when they're in opposition to my own.

I will do what I can to try to reconcile with Earl and any other members I've treated harshly or unfairly. 

_/\__/\__/\_

 

[moment]

On 9/3/2020 at 4:49 AM, Apech said:

 

now I feel existential angst - and it ain't pretty.

 

[ilumairen]

On 9/3/2020 at 6:37 AM, Earl Grey said:

 

On the Spotless affair, I am grateful that you have some insight to see what is inherently unfair in that and how it still has tendrils in the way I have been treated since my initial and secondary suspension. 

 

The tendrils have also, clearly imo, influenced your own actions and behaviors,  or this conversation would not be occurring.
 

Quote

My criticism of your dichotomy is that it is done in two extremes, one that fosters extreme passive-aggression, and one that polices all potential for possible passive-aggression, whether intended and present or not. 

 

Neither would be my dichotomy if not for the role of moderator, and my attempts to listen to the membership - yourself included. 
 

So to make this as simple as possible, either people here can voice concerns and criticisms directly related to others here without naming them, and this is ok, or it isn’t. It cannot be “not ok” when one individual is being referred to, and “perfectly fine” and “not against the rules” when another is.

 

 

 

Quote

Let me address this next post from Luke before returning to it as it will tie together much better. 

 

 

Believe it or not, I am the opposite of thick skin. 

 

Thick skin to me is a blanket statement used by individuals like joeblast and the Alt-Right members during the Trump discussions and climate change denial conversations to justify harassment and abuse, and general asshole-ish behavior. While he may argue and quoted once from Buddha his own assessment of my character for my malice towards him as a response to his abusive interactions and inability to see why someone would be hostile towards him, the difference is, he was not doing it in the spirit of love and fraternity, but as a means of a backhanded insult to condescendingly belittle that unsophisticated minds will have difficulty reading. 

 

It is equivalent to someone saying, "You don't know this basic spiritual principle? No wonder you're so messed up!" as opposed to a more "Son, I think this would be helpful if you learn this principle if you haven't heard of it before. Talk to me about it later when you're ready." 

 

 

First let me say, I did find pertinent discussion related to this, and shared a link to one of joeblast’s post in the moderation area so my fellow mods could get a better feel for what you are referring to.

 

Second, there have been individuals here who have viewed you in much the same manner you view joeblast. 

 

Quote

My sweeping generalization can both refer to specific individuals or characteristics that any individual can take in my post, but by and large, it is the behavior that imparts the message that one should not emulate such attitudes or behavior of what I refer to, not ad hominem. 

 

So, my answer, ilumairen, is that discernment if something is done in the spirit of goodwill or passive-aggression should be discerned more than writing in a law, because a law can be abused, but a virtue principle can be assessed through wisdom and direct engagement.

 

 

And as @Apech so eloquently put it we (as in the mod team) can end up hoisting ourselves by our own petard. 
 

Would the membership here actually want to place that much trust in my “wisdom”? Would you? 
 

Edit to add (and this is only written for personal consideration regarding the idea of wisdom and discernment): Do you believe it is possible this idea of wisdom and discernment played a role in what you referenced regarding doxing, and are you able to see how easily this as a model could fall into perceived favoritism?

 

Quote

As for Luke […] 

Edited September 4, 2020 by ilumairen

[RobB]

Can anyone join this argument ? Yes? Excellent. I'd just like to point out that, as a low-contributing freeloading lurker, I find the board now, under the tender care of the current Mod Team, to be a much nicer, more interesting, and infinitely more auspicious place to hang out than it has been for many years. 

 

Thank you all. May your orbits be ever clear and your chakras fruitfully aligned. Have a great weekend. Out.

 

Edit: stupid punctuation.

Edited September 4, 2020 by RobB

[Apech]

3 hours ago, moment said:

 

 

Perhaps we could say a kind of Weltschmerz brought on by that fin de siècle sense of the jejune nature of discourse itself?

 

 

[Taomeow]

27 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Perhaps we could say a kind of Weltschmerz brought on by that fin de siècle sense of the jejune nature of discourse itself?

 

 

 

Looks more like schadenfreude to me.      

[Earl Grey]

22 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

The tendrils have also, clearly imo, influenced your own actions and behaviors,  or this conversation would not be occurring.
 

 

Neither would be my dichotomy if not for the role of moderator, and my attempts to listen to the membership - yourself included. 
 

So to make this as simple as possible, either people here can voice concerns and criticisms directly related to others here without naming them, and this is ok, or it isn’t. It cannot be “not ok” when one individual is being referred to, and “perfectly fine” and “not against the rules” when another is.

 

 

 

 

First let me say, I did find pertinent discussion related to this, and shared a link to one of joeblast’s post in the moderation area so my fellow mods could get a better feel for what you are referring to.

 

Second, there have been individuals here who have viewed you in much the same manner you view joeblast. 

 

 

And as @Apech so eloquently put it we (as in the mod team) can end up hoisting ourselves by our own petard. 
 

Would the membership here actually want to place that much trust in my “wisdom”? Would you? 
 

Edit to add (and this is only written for personal consideration regarding the idea of wisdom and discernment): Do you believe it is possible this idea of wisdom and discernment played a role in what you referenced regarding doxing, and are you able to see how easily this as a model could fall into perceived favoritism?

 

 

Will reply this evening or whenever I can sit down and dedicate a response to this and whatever one liminal luke is preparing as well.

 

UPDATE: Busy. Will reply as time permits and to PM from Luke.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Earl Grey

[moment]

11 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Perhaps we could say a kind of Weltschmerz brought on by that fin de siècle sense of the jejune nature of discourse itself?

 

 

 

Too much cynicism there for me.

[moment]

10 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Looks more like schadenfreude to me.      

 

Good god! from cynicism to sadism! 

Edited September 5, 2020 by moment

[Taomeow]

10 hours ago, moment said:

 

Good god! from cynicism to sadism! 

 

Nah, just a Germanism inspired by Weltschmerz.   

 

I forgot most of my German over the years, so I always appreciate it when I encounter a German word borrowed into English --it stimulates some of that memory, so when I see one, I can seldom resist using another. 

 

Also sprach Taomeow.   

[moment]

55 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Nah, just a Germanism inspired by Weltschmerz.   

 

I forgot most of my German over the years, so I always appreciate it when I encounter a German word borrowed into English --it stimulates some of that memory, so when I see one, I can seldom resist using another. 

 

Also sprach Taomeow.   

 

[Nungali]

 

 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, moment said:

 

 

Translation ;

 

Hi

 

Yeah , hi ... good morning .

 

What's happening ?

 

Not much , laying around  - boring .

 

We could think of something to do

 

Like what ?

 

Food bowl is empty, dog is in backyard, so no teasing .

 

Stupid  dog !

 

You could pay me for a lick job .

 

Why would I do that ?  You enjoy it as much as I do .

 

Okay ... but not in front of the camera .

 

I'll move over here so they cant see your face .  ....   Oooh yeah, thats it ... get in behind the ears  .  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael Sternbach]

On 4.9.2020 at 5:53 PM, Apech said:

 

Perhaps we could say a kind of Weltschmerz brought on by that fin de siècle sense of the jejune nature of discourse itself?

 

 

 

Couldn't it be more of a Mantak-Chia-Schmerz brought on by the unsatisfactory suppression of your inherent Geilheit? 

[zerostao]

 Like to mention this; now seems like a relative lull, yes, we have admin--admin that prefer a hands off style, except to keep this site up and running.

We have mods-- who accepted the chore of a little more hands on role. We're not out to censor or shut down dialogue, we do not like warning, giving points, suspending, banning, anyone.

We have members. Bums, I am sure im going to overlook several, I dont think they will mind, because they don't have ego issues: we have Bums, like Apech, Yueya, moment, dwai. Nungali, virtue, and others who are not mods, yet they speak up, let their voice be heard regarding things we mods accepted to look after. When a voice speaks clarity, does it matter who said it? 

Those who read these threads recognize clarity when they see it. They also see who hoisted themself up with their own, whatever apech called it!

Nungali interprets cat language differently than I do. Yet, I appreciate what he has to say. If I err or forget something significant to an ongoing dialogue, punch me in the shoulder, please remove heavy rings first, but call my attention to it. That is what a true bum does.

None of us have omniperspective.

 

Edit to add--- just because we mods don't like to warn, give points, suspend, ban, does not mean that we won't.

Edited September 6, 2020 by zerostao

[Earl Grey]

On 9/5/2020 at 7:19 AM, Earl Grey said:

 

Will reply this evening or whenever I can sit down and dedicate a response to this and whatever one liminal luke is preparing as well.

 

UPDATE: Busy. Will reply as time permits and to PM from Luke.

 

@ilumairen I have time only to reply to Steve tonight, but my draft is already being prepared to respond. Sorry for the delay. 

UPDATE: hoping to get it out today at the earliest, but realistically may take a little longer...depends on how satisfied I am with it as it's meant to respond as a form of mutual dialogue rather than a defense statement. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Earl Grey

[doc benway]

7 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

@ilumairen I have time only to reply to Steve tonight, but my draft is already being prepared to respond. Sorry for the delay. 

Thanks Earl, I appreciate the reply.

🙏🏽

[Nungali]

On 07/09/2020 at 1:56 AM, zerostao said:

 Like to mention this; now seems like a relative lull, yes, we have admin--admin that prefer a hands off style, except to keep this site up and running.

We have mods-- who accepted the chore of a little more hands on role. We're not out to censor or shut down dialogue, we do not like warning, giving points, suspending, banning, anyone.

We have members. Bums, I am sure im going to overlook several, I dont think they will mind, because they don't have ego issues: we have Bums, like Apech, Yueya, moment, dwai. Nungali, virtue, and others who are not mods, yet they speak up, let their voice be heard regarding things we mods accepted to look after. When a voice speaks clarity, does it matter who said it? 

Those who read these threads recognize clarity when they see it. They also see who hoisted themself up with their own, whatever apech called it!

Nungali interprets cat language differently than I do. Yet, I appreciate what he has to say. If I err or forget something significant to an ongoing dialogue, punch me in the shoulder, please remove heavy rings first, but call my attention to it. That is what a true bum does.

None of us have omniperspective.

 

Edit to add--- just because we mods don't like to warn, give points, suspend, ban, does not mean that we won't.

 

 

 Punch you  ???  In  your shoulder  ?    You want me to punch your shoulder ?  Ohhhh .... I dont think you would want ME  to do that ???

 

 

 

.