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[dwai]

Just now, Apech said:

 

Are you seriously comparing what happened to native Americans to what happened in British India?

100% 

Thankfully, the British Raj was unable to do to Indians what the European-immigrants did to Native Americans. 

Just now, Apech said:

 

Most organised religion is some kind of scourge.

Can't argue with you on that account. Monotheistic ones are the worst imho. 

[SirPalomides]

Modi would never have gotten where he is if he wasn't really, really good at schmoozing and making people who meet him think he's grand. He is, above all else, an extremely skilled and cunning, street-level politician.

[Earl Grey]

Modi is who Trump wishes he were and the the non-Hindi speakers and non-Hindus have very different opinions of the man.

 

Saying you’ve got your sources and talking about the man’s character makes me think of how Trump and George W. Bush’s fans characterized them.

 

BUT: I shall bite my tongue because this kind of exchange ends up the same as when ralis tried to bring up issues and facts during the alt-right era of the forum...

[SirPalomides]

5 minutes ago, dwai said:

100% 

Thankfully, the British Raj was unable to do to Indians what the European-immigrants did to Native Americans. 

 

Have to agree, here- it's hard to look at the deliberately induced famines and massacres in India as anything but a colonial genocide. So what the Brits are really good at is not looking at them at all, and making sure no one else looks at them either.

[dwai]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Modi is who Trump wishes he were and the the non-Hindi speakers and non-Hindus have very different opinions of the man.

False equivalences are a very easy pitfall to slide into but are still false. Modi and Trump are nothing alike. Trump is an over-privileged clown.

 

Modi is a self-made man, coming from an abjectly poor background, struggled to the top of Indian political system via hard work. People might say many things about the BJP, but in reality, it is a party for the middle class of India. And Modi has the support of the majority of the Indian polity, vocal naysayers notwithstanding.

 

Trump is about rampant and unencumbered profiteering irrespective of the cost, Modi has been steadily working on uplifting the poor and underprivileged in India. He is more socialist than the so-called socialists of India.

 

Yes, under his watch many policies of previous governments that were blatantly discriminatory have been reversed. That has caused a loud outcry among a small group of people who were previously suckling from the teat of power (media, political analysts etc) -- and this has been amplified by their buddies in the Western media. The average Indian citizen doesn't give two hoots about that. 

 

He has made mistakes too. Yet he won two terms with an increasing majority mandate. Not some ridiculous victory due to electoral college math. 

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Saying you’ve got your sources and talking about the man’s character makes me think of how Trump and George W. Bush’s fans characterized them.

 

BUT: I shall bite my tongue because this kind of exchange ends up the same as when ralis tried to bring up issues and facts during the alt-right era of the forum...

I don't buy into the left-right schism at all..so it won't work with me. 

[Earl Grey]

Just now, dwai said:

False equivalences are a very easy pitfall to slide into but are still false. Modi and Trump are nothing alike. Trump is an over-privileged clown.

 

Modi is a self-made man, coming from an abjectly poor background, struggled to the top of Indian political system via hard work. People might say many things about the BJP, but in reality, it is a party for the middle class of India. And Modi has the support of the majority of the Indian polity, vocal naysayers notwithstanding.

 

Trump is about rampant and unencumbered profiteering irrespective of the cost, Modi has been steadily working on uplifting the poor and underprivileged in India. He is more socialist than the so-called socialists of India.

 

Yes, under his watch many policies of previous governments that were blatantly discriminatory have been reversed. That has caused a loud outcry among a small group of people who were previously suckling from the teat of power (media, political analysts etc) -- and this has been amplified by their buddies in the Western media. The average Indian citizen doesn't give two hoots about that. 

 

He has made mistakes too. Yet he won two terms with an increasing majority mandate. Not some ridiculous victory due to electoral college math. 

I don't buy into the left-right schism at all..so it won't work with me. 

Ain’t saying it’s a left or right thing... Modi is a beast and the hypernationalism along with treatment towards Muslims and non-Hindi speakers doesn’t reflect the achievements you speak of there.

 

Populism and making India into a Hindu state as opposed to secular while changing the traditions like the aforementioned Kumb Mela and very similar approaches to dealing with, critics not unlike Duterte or Bolsonaro for starters. 🙄

[dwai]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

Ain’t saying it’s a left or right thing... Modi is a beast and the hypernationalism along with treatment towards Muslims and non-Hindi speakers doesn’t reflect the achievements you speak of there.

Yes, that's the hysteria being perpetrated by certain vested interest groups and being fanned by certain western media outlets. Have you ever been to India? What gives you the right or the authority to speak about this as if you know this first hand?

 

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

Populism and making India into a Hindu state as opposed to secular while changing the traditions like the aforementioned Kumb Mela and very similar approaches to dealing with, critics not unlike Duterte or Bolsonaro for starters. 🙄

That's your opinion and I respect your right to have it. Doesn't make it a fact  

I'm going to let this go at this point. It is very clear to me that you are not objective on this matter. 

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

Yes, that's the hysteria being perpetrated by certain vested interest groups and being fanned by certain western media outlets. Have you ever been to India? What gives you the right or the authority to speak about this as if you know this first hand?

 

That's your opinion and I respect your right to have it. Doesn't make it a fact  

I'm going to let this go at this point. It is very clear to me that you are not objective on this matter. 

"Modi is a self-made man, coming from an abjectly poor background, struggled to the top of Indian political system via hard work. People might say many things about the BJP, but in reality, it is a party for the middle class of India. And Modi has the support of the majority of the Indian polity, vocal naysayers notwithstanding."

 

That's so so wrong. He's an upper caste Brahmin leading a party with only upper-caste brahmins (all North Indians, mostly Gujurati). But sadly the latter is true - it does dominate the middle class, but even in his last landslide, he didn't win a majority of votes.

 

How about his love life and his significantly younger partner? Or how his office is filled with air purifiers?

 

Also, he royally fucked up Covid-19. India will overtake the US soon, and the economy will suffer for years.

Ah, right: the whole “Have you ever been to India?” argument much like people tell me Marcos and Duterte are good for the Philippines or that Jokowi being re-elected is good for Indonesia and how Suharto was great. I don’t see much objectivity on your end and don’t claim objectivity on my end either—but the things I’ve cited are so far unanswered by you—something you have done before when you’re not interested in getting to the point.

 

Sure, let it go. 😁

[dwai]

Just now, Earl Grey said:

"Modi is a self-made man, coming from an abjectly poor background, struggled to the top of Indian political system via hard work. People might say many things about the BJP, but in reality, it is a party for the middle class of India. And Modi has the support of the majority of the Indian polity, vocal naysayers notwithstanding."

 

That's so so wrong. He's an upper caste Brahmin leading a party with only upper-caste brahmins (all North Indians, mostly Gujurati). But sadly the latter is true - it does dominate the middle class, but even in his last landslide, he didn't win a majority of votes.

Oh my goodness...you are so wrong that this makes me question the rest of your claims wrt. your knowledge.

Modi is from what is called "other backward class". He is neither so-called "Upper Caste", nor is he a Brahmin. I don't even know how to respond to this level of ignorance...so I'll just let it go...

 

Just now, Earl Grey said:

How about his love life and his significantly younger partner? Or how his office is filled with air purifiers?

What significantly younger partner? He's lived as a bachelor (though he was married off at a very young age by his family). This is all public knowledge. Trust me, if there was even a semblance of truth to what you're claiming, his political rivals would be all up in arms about it. 

Just now, Earl Grey said:

 

 

Also, he royally fucked up Covid-19. India will overtake the US soon, and the economy will suffer for years.

Ah, right: the whole “Have you ever been to India?” argument much like people tell me Marcos and Duterte are good for the Philippines or that Jokowi being re-elected is good for Indonesia and how Suharto was great. I don’t see much objectivity on your end and don’t claim objectivity on my end either—but the things I’ve cited are so far unanswered by you—something you have done before when you’re not interested in getting to the point.

 

Sure, let it go. 😁

I don't know about Philipino politics, so don't have an opinion about it. I do know about Indian politics and care about India very deeply -- so I make sure nonsense such as what you spouted (really deep fake stuff of the kind that's abound on social media) is called out. 

[SirPalomides]

9 minutes ago, dwai said:

Have you ever been to India? What gives you the right or the authority to speak about this as if you know this first hand?

 

Surely you are aware that Modi has many critics in India not connected to Western media or any Western imperial project.

 

"Trust me, I've been there," is a pretty useless argument with any country, especially one as huge and complex as India. Someone who visits Kerala is likely going to hear some very different opinions of the BJP than if they visited Varanasi.

[Earl Grey]

Need I also say the magic word, KASHMIR?!

[dwai]

1 minute ago, SirPalomides said:

 

Surely you are aware that Modi has many critics in India not connected to Western media or any Western imperial project.

Of course. And those critics are exposed as belonging to a particular section of disenfranchised powerbrokers mostly. 

1 minute ago, SirPalomides said:

 

"Trust me, I've been there," is a pretty useless argument with any country, especially one as huge and complex as India. Someone who visits Kerala is likely going to hear some very different opinions of the BJP than if they visited Varanasi.

That might be the case. And I do want a strong political opposition to the BJP...but the current crop of non-BJP politicians in India are not only incompetent but also corrupt to their core. 

[dwai]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Need I also say the magic word, KASHMIR?!

Spoiler

 

You meant that?

[Earl Grey]

All I can say is you’ve said you’d let this go...twice. 🤣

 

and you are citing a lot of material from the disinformation campaign from Modi...

 

and I am somehow displaying ignorance. 😁

[zerostao]

35 minutes ago, dwai said:

  Hide contents

 

You meant that?

Classic!! And what a performance! 

The story was quite clear, indeed, like the guitar which keeps circling around...trying to frame the narrative, weaving as the weaver does, yet, little snippets of truth cascade across the circular, and then those keys and unrelenting drum. 

Thank you dwai for providing this classic, and those snippets of truth.

Edit to add

https://www.dalailama.com/news/2019/congratulating-prime-minister-modi-on-his-birthday

Edited September 11, 2020 by zerostao

[doc benway]

Nothing quite like Zeppelin’s rhythm section!

 

Cool vid about Bonham. 
Talks about Kashmir ~5:05

 

 

 

[thelerner]

10 hours ago, freeform said:

Of course it’s never that black and white - and I follow my intuition on things. But I’ve certainly ‘bitched’ about all kinds of practices and ideas. And I won’t stop

 

I think that's fine, part of the discussion within the forum.  What gets me is insulting the forum because the discussion is allowed. 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

16 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

By the way, New Age is based off of New Philosophy from the 1960s and a bastardized version of Blavatsky’s work:

 

Quote

Birth Of The Movement

In 1970 American theosophist David Spangler moved to the Findhorn Foundation, where he developed the fundamental idea of the New Age movement. He believed that the release of new waves of spiritual energy, signaled by certain astrological changes (e.g., the movement of the Earth into a new cycle known as the Age of Aquarius), had initiated the coming of the New Age. He further suggested that people use this new energy to make manifest the New Age. Spangler’s view was in stark contrast to that of Bailey and her followers, who believed that the new era would arrive independent of human actions. Spangler’s perspective demanded an active response and shifted the responsibility for the coming of the New Age to those who believed in it.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/New-Age-movement

 

Wow, I never thought I could be so disgusted with the Encyclopedia Britannica, but this is a completer oversimplification and the meme "New Age" was in relatively common usage by 1970, when I first encountered it in a New Thought context.  David Spangler only became will known because there was already a large audience for his ideas.  Focusing on Theosophy is also a considerable oversimplification, there are many other influences that contribute to it especially New Thought and Ernest Holmes in particular, though it context as a "New Age" is provided by speculations from Esoteric Astrology that were a rising trend of the Nineteenth Century.

 

The New Age was the "Age of Aquarius", popularized by a song from the 1967 musical "Hair", which was in turn popularized by the group The 5th Dimension as a medley "Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In".  Here are the lyrics to Aquarius:

 

Quote

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars
This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
Age of Aquarius
Aquarius
Aquarius

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius
Aquarius

The 5th Dimension - Aquarius Lyrics

 

There is your "New Age" in a nutshell including crystals and superficial astrology.

 

I could write a lot about this, because I both witnessed it as it was unfolding and was a critical observer of what was going on.  I also am familiar with almost all of the strands that contributed to it.  It's basically treacly junk food for for the "soul", you're better off with good old fashioned Chicken Soup.

 

On a lighter and "Chinese" note,I am reminded of this:

 

 

I guess I really can't put that in without letting the Fifth Dimension speak for themselves:

 

 

ZYD

[thelerner]

However you define it, I get the feeling 'New Age' is dying.  Once upon a time there were a couple new age book stores in Chicago.  They're gone.  Normal book stores used to have huge sections of New Age stuff, some good, some woo woo.  They're much smaller these days and books stores themselves, sadly, are dying off. 

 

The New Age used to spawn a new Thing every season.  I don't think it does anymore.  No bright trend to sell soft covers.  For all its bubble gum, it was usually optimistic and had the opportunity to lead proponents into deeper more constructive subjects. 

 

'Conspiracy theories', like New Age, is a nebulous term.  Its dark cousin, has taken over, supplanting it.  It's got the books and the crazies now.  Which is too bad

[dwai]

48 minutes ago, steve said:

Nothing quite like Zeppelin’s rhythm section!

 

Cool vid about Bonham. 
Talks about Kashmir ~5:05

 

 

 

Bonzo, Moon, Paice -- kings among musicians  

[Earl Grey]

5 hours ago, zerostao said:

Classic!! And what a performance! 

The story was quite clear, indeed, like the guitar which keeps circling around...trying to frame the narrative, weaving as the weaver does, yet, little snippets of truth cascade across the circular, and then those keys and unrelenting drum. 

Thank you dwai for providing this classic, and those snippets of truth.

Edit to add

https://www.dalailama.com/news/2019/congratulating-prime-minister-modi-on-his-birthday

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/if-modi-wishes-dalai-lama-it-will-irk-china-and-win-india-some-local-support-near-the-border/ar-BB16ngu7

 

Not to mention the need for international support to distract from Kashmir and recent clashes with China. 🤣

[Earl Grey]

3 hours ago, thelerner said:

However you define it, I get the feeling 'New Age' is dying.  Once upon a time there were a couple new age book stores in Chicago.  They're gone.  Normal book stores used to have huge sections of New Age stuff, some good, some woo woo.  They're much smaller these days and books stores themselves, sadly, are dying off. 

 

The New Age used to spawn a new Thing every season.  I don't think it does anymore.  No bright trend to sell soft covers.  For all its bubble gum, it was usually optimistic and had the opportunity to lead proponents into deeper more constructive subjects. 

 

'Conspiracy theories', like New Age, is a nebulous term.  Its dark cousin, has taken over, supplanting it.  It's got the books and the crazies now.  Which is too bad

Those crazies are predominantly the alt-right and their “natural alternatives” to cure coronavirus.

[zerostao]

2 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/if-modi-wishes-dalai-lama-it-will-irk-china-and-win-india-some-local-support-near-the-border/ar-BB16ngu7

 

Not to mention the need for international support to distract from Kashmir and recent clashes with China. 🤣

Thanks for the link, it's been an ongoing thing my entire life. And since way before my lifetime. Militaries clashing with each other, sons lost. And for what? I am vocally anti war, anti agression. Yet, it seems the entire world is on the brink. When I was younger, I thought we train martial arts so we won't have to fight. It was a path to development, had the Spiritual aspect with it, it helped maintain peace.  Now, I wonder if avoiding the fight is possible for any of us. I owe my good health in large part due to Chinese medicine theory, my time spent in meditation, chi kung, taiji, bagua, other arts. My philosophy and spirituality are heavily influenced by Daoism. It is a fascinating journey of body, mind, spirit. These times are tricky, it is stressful, i think this site is useful in many ways, including occasional vents, even rants, among fellow bums, who some of may have an inkling about what we`re going on about, aside from basic humanity. There is always someone here to listen, maybe even jaw back a little. Usually, it sharpens us. 

Yes, since before my birth, Kashmir, the India/China border. The long standing Greece/Turkish tensions, South China sea, even here inside the US, seems someone's spoiling for a fight. Sons, daughters, everyone's precious lives are under some dark cloud. It’s madness, but it is there staring us all in the face. Our little squabbles here on TDB, maybe someone loses an argument now and then, most always a way to save face is provided, thoughtfully, we are all vulnerable, i am unaware of any long-term bum who hasn't come up on the short side of the stick sometime or other. 

Up in the Himalayas, two nuclear powers have had hand to hand skirmishes, sticks, stones, fists, basic weapons. It is interesting, and it is sad that bloodshed and lives lost. We can lament over it and scream for it to stop, i don't think its going to stop. The Dalai Lama has taken his position, using his influence. That's part of the reason i wonder if any of us can escape the big thing. 

I wish you the best, as I wish all bums the best, all humanity the best. 

The clouds are dark, i am concerned. Let's use our time wisely here and be of service to each other. I see you trying to do that. Thanks for helping keeping Discussions On The Way going.

Edited September 12, 2020 by zerostao

[dwai]

24 minutes ago, zerostao said:

The Dalai Lama has taken his position, using his influence. That's part of the reason i wonder if any of us can escape the big thing. 

Because he knows which side is on the correct side of dharma. He has known this since 1950s. 
 

In any conflict, the side to choose is that of dharma.

[zerostao]

Just now, dwai said:

Because he knows which side is on the correct side of dharma. He has known this since 1950s. 
 

In any conflict, the side to choose is that of dharma.

I am not second guessing the Dalai Lama 

My melancholy is making itself known to me. For me there are no Victor's. It is what it is and it is upon us. Is there a way out ?