Northern daoism vs Southern daoism

[Tombajo]

Has anyone study both Northern and Southern Doaism........talking about actual cultivation techniques? I trained in Southern doaism from a hermit called Nine Cloud...... 

I heard that the main difference from the two is that southern actually took in teachings from outside it, like Buddhism, Zen, Hinduism, and so on. Where as the Northern is pure and didn't change do to outside influence. I am starting to translate this most amazing system into a more modern version......that will be so much easier to teach and learn......so I decide to study the northern system. I am just wondering if someone has already did this, talking about studying both systems, and can offer me their opion and findings. I have to say, I was a little shocked that the main body of teaching the three immortals is just kan & li...... It seems at first glance at least what I learned of the southern is way more advance........ Of course I am by no means even close to being done...... I am just seeking wisdom......have a wonderful day......and may we all wake up from delusion..........aka real wokeness not the fake kind......hahahaha

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, Tombajo said:

Has anyone study both Northern and Southern Doaism........talking about actual cultivation techniques? I trained in Southern doaism from a hermit called Nine Cloud...... 

Would that make you Mantak Chia's cousin? You know, One Cloud and his eight younger brothers, and their students... 

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I heard that the main difference from the two is that southern actually took in teachings from outside it, like Buddhism, Zen, Hinduism, and so on. Where as the Northern is pure and didn't change do to outside influence.

You might want to check that info again. 

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II am just wondering if someone has already did this, talking about studying both systems, and can offer me their opion and findings.

Wang Mu? 

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I have to say, I was a little shocked that the main body of teaching the three immortals is just kan & li...... It seems at first glance at least what I learned of the southern is way more advance........

Please share  😁

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Of course I am by no means even close to being done...... I am just seeking wisdom......have a wonderful day......and may we all wake up from delusion..........aka real wokeness not the fake kind......hahahaha

Well, there is a thread especially for woke white people.

[Tombajo]

Ok ok lol I guess this is not the place for me. Yes I know Mr. Chia very well. Good luck in y'alls pursuit........ 

[Cleansox]

6 hours ago, Tombajo said:

Ok ok lol I guess this is not the place for me. Yes I know Mr. Chia very well. Good luck in y'alls pursuit........ 

It is a place for everyone. 

Just don't expect anyone to buy into your ideas, most already have their own and are content with that. 

But please, share your insights in Nei Dan and related practices. 

Southern, is that Nanzhong or are you heavy into inner gods meditations? 

[freeform]

15 hours ago, Tombajo said:

I am starting to translate this most amazing system into a more modern version......that will be so much easier to teach and learn

😔

[Cleansox]

7 minutes ago, freeform said:

😔

Did you also read in "simplify and miss the point" in that sad statement? 

[freeform]

23 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Did you also read in "simplify and miss the point" in that sad statement? 

 

I read "this most amazing system" to be simplified for the ease of teaching and learning. And yes, I'm wondering how OP missed the point. Maybe if we translate it to something more mundane it would be clearer...

 

@Tombajo Imagine someone came across the most amazing system of heart bypass surgery and decided (without even achieving skill in it fully) to 'simplify it' for the ease of teaching...

 

How would you feel about getting heart surgery from someone who learned this way?

 

You could say cultivation is not at all similar to heart surgery...

 

I would agree - spiritual cultivation impacts not just your body, but the very essence of who you are beyond this one lifetime. A mistake in surgery could mean a quick end to this life. A mistake in spiritual cultivation could mean a very sorry existence for many lifetimes.

 

As an aside (and I'm not saying this is the case with OP) - but people who learn systems from 'mystical wandering hermits', in my experience have actually learned it from a teacher with a real name but then fell out with them and don't have their blessing to teach the system to anyone else.

 

Many teachers who came to the west in the 70's and 80's learned their system from just such 'mystical hermits'... And they decided to spread this ancient knowledge to the rest of the world. In many cases, this tale is more like - they learned from a teacher who then kicked them out of the school... or they left for whatever reason, and with a low reputation in Asia, decided to come to the west to build a new life.

[Cleansox]

I considered that @Tombajo could mean modernising the language that surrounds these practices. 

 

It is on the difficult side. 

This is my conclusion:

The choice of terms helps your mind to think in images and concepts that aids in breaking up preconcieved notions about reality, and frames new experiences. 

Modernising this would not be a short cut, in my opinion. 

 

Is it the methods in themselves that needs to be modernised? I cannot think of a more stripped-to-the-bones method than what I do. 

It's still complex, because there are several steps that needs to be done. 

 

Maybe the system of Nine Clouds contains aspects that can be modernised? 

Only his students will know. 

 

I know that if I ever start to teach, I will teach it complicated and layered. 

 

[SirPalomides]

What exactly is meant by northern and southern here? If by northern you mean Quanzhen, then the idea that it is “pure” from Buddhist influence falls apart pretty quickly.

[Tombajo]

I find it quite interesting that everyone seems to be an expert, on what I know and what I mean, without even asking me any questions..... That is a skill I would definitely like to aquire......please teach me....I am absolutely amazed......

 

I will give you a hint, however since everyone seems to be experts here; I definitely don't have to explain. You will know automatically. What an amazing skill y'all have. 

 

Jing, chi, qi, prana, shen are all made of what scientists call darkenergy. Of course y'all already know that........I am in awe of your wisdom.

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, Tombajo said:

I find it quite interesting that everyone seems to be an expert, on what I know and what I mean, without even asking me any questions..... That is a skill I would definitely like to aquire......please teach me....I am absolutely amazed......

 

I will give you a hint, however since everyone seems to be experts here; I definitely don't have to explain. You will know automatically. What an amazing skill y'all have. 

 

Jing, chi, qi, prana, shen are all made of what scientists call darkenergy. Of course y'all already know that........I am in awe of your wisdom.

 

Tombajo, I think your introductory post set a few expectations for the people who have responded already: 

 

"Hi, my name is Joel. I achieved enlightenment many years ago from southern doaism"

 

But even without that post for context, the initial post on this thread is already questionable for being poised as a fact. 

[Tombajo]

No I am referring to Wang Liping. It is his description of the southern and northen daoism differences, that I am referring to. I know for a fact that the southern is like that, because that is my lineage. Since I am ignorant of the Northern I was just accepting Mr. Liping's description of it. That is why I asked the question? I am ignorant to the answer......

[Tombajo]

Ok I understand now, it is a waste of my time to be here. It seems, that I will not get, what I am looking for here. So instead of knocking on a close door; I will look else where, for an open one. I wish everyone luck in your pursuit of the dao, may we all find enlightenment and understanding. 

 

[ilumairen]

Just now, Tombajo said:

Ok I understand now, it is a waste of my time to be here. It seems, that I will not get, what I am looking for here. So instead of knocking on a close door; I will look else where, for an open one. I wish everyone luck in your pursuit of the dao, may we all find enlightenment and understanding. 

 

What is it you are actually looking for?

[Cleansox]

51 minutes ago, Tombajo said:

No I am referring to Wang Liping. It is his description of the southern and northen daoism differences, that I am referring to. I know for a fact that the southern is like that, because that is my lineage. Since I am ignorant of the Northern I was just accepting Mr. Liping's description of it. That is why I asked the question? I am ignorant to the answer......

And it has been answered. Twice, or is it more? 

[EmeraldHead]

1 hour ago, Tombajo said:

Jing, chi, qi, prana, shen are all made of what scientists call darkenergy. Of course y'all already know that........I am in awe of your wisdom.

HELLO ! That's a cool statement Matches a lot of what I've been researching for years.

 

Mind if I ask more details on this?

 

How can we access darkenergy as cultivators? How do planets and stars produce energy? Can we copy them?!

[ilumairen]

1 hour ago, Tombajo said:

I find it quite interesting that everyone seems to be an expert, on what I know and what I mean, without even asking me any questions..... That is a skill I would definitely like to aquire......please teach me....I am absolutely amazed......

 

 

The post immediately preceding yours asks a question pertinent to answering your question:

 

1 hour ago, SirPalomides said:

What exactly is meant by northern and southern here? If by northern you mean Quanzhen, then the idea that it is “pure” from Buddhist influence falls apart pretty quickly.

 

Which renders the remaining (and apparently ego driven) passive aggressiveness rather unnecessary (and telling imo).

 

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I will give you a hint, however since everyone seems to be experts here; I definitely don't have to explain. You will know automatically. What an amazing skill y'all have. 

 

Jing, chi, qi, prana, shen are all made of what scientists call darkenergy. Of course y'all already know that........I am in awe of your wisdom.

 

Dark energy is a scientific way of saying, “we see something happening (counter to what we had expected to see happening), but we don’t know what’s driving it.” It is an indication (and admittance) of ignorance.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by ilumairen

[Cleansox]

23 hours ago, Tombajo said:

 

I have to say, I was a little shocked that the main body of teaching the three immortals is just kan & li...... It seems at first glance at least what I learned of the southern is way more advance........

We could always discuss this, if you are up to it. It would be a delight to read about your interpretation of Kan and Li, as well as where you got the idea that the main body of the teaching is kan and li. 

 

Oh, the marvellous discussions we can have. 

 

You see, there are no closed doors here unless you create them yourself. 

 

But you are right, there are several posters here that could be considered "experts" in their subjects, even though most don't put "enlightened" or "master" in their profile. 

 

And yes, so you don't have to say that, I'm a bona fide expert in a field. Cool 😎, isn't it? 

[Tombajo]

Honestly I am telling you this, because you asked. You don't have to produce it....you are made from it....you have to learn how to cultivate it. The key to immortality is fusing darkenergy with your darkmatter body.... Darkenergy is the same as darkmatter. The difference comes because darkmatter is attached to actual matter. That is the only difference. To make this a little more understandable. Have you ever came out of your body and seen yourself sleeping? Or even have a dream where everything seemed normal like you where awake; until you notice people were ignoring you or you magically float through a door? You are not seeing matter at all. It is total darkmatter. You have moved your consciousness from this side of our reality (aka regular matter) to the otherside (aka darkmatter ) it only looks like regular matter and even feels like it too. Since darkmatter interacts with other darkmatter just as regular matter does..... In reality superstring teory and supersymmetry explain this the best. The energtic double that supersymmetry predicts is darkmatter and is attached to regular matter and occupies the same space but other dimension. The true goal is to reach into deeper dimensions and pull this darkenergy, that has different qualities, depending on the dimension that it is in back to this dimension. All the higher emotions are darkenergy from higher dimensions and hence why they seem so elusive. Ok I think that answers your question. However please send me a private message if you want me to expand. Not to keen on being judged by ignorant people. It's quite hilarious to me, but you can only laugh at someone else's pain so much before it gets quite sad......

 

 

I am super close to just deleting my profile and moving on.......I find it hard not to answer a heart felt question and is the only reason I responded. If my wisdom is not valued here, there is no since in me being here.......

 

[ilumairen]

2 minutes ago, Tombajo said:

 

I am super close to just deleting my profile and moving on.......I find it hard not to answer a heart felt question and is the only reason I responded. If my wisdom is not valued here, there is no since in me being here.......

 

If you wish your wisdom to be valued, perhaps start valuing the wisdom of others. If you make your interactions here more reciprocal, you may find yourself having a very different (and perhaps more enjoyable) experience.

 

 

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Or even have a dream where everything seemed normal like you where awake; until you notice people were ignoring you or you magically float through a door? You are not seeing matter at all. It is total darkmatter. You have moved your consciousness from this side of our reality (aka regular matter) to the otherside (aka darkmatter ) it only looks like regular matter and even feels like it too.

My primary practice at this time is dream yoga, and what you describe in your question reflects the dawning of lucidity. This is a means by which the individual recognizes the personally created aspect of their experience - which correlates to what I have seen you post elsewhere. (Which is only pertinent to a Daoist discussion in so far as you have highlighted Buddhist influence.)
 

 

 

[Cleansox]

15 minutes ago, Tombajo said:

 

I am super close to just deleting my profile and moving on.......I find it hard not to answer a heart felt question and is the only reason I responded. If my wisdom is not valued here, there is no since in me being here.......

 

Good bye 

[Cleansox]

Sighs. 

 

I realise we just missed the chance to discuss the methods and core texts of the southern method with a genuine Xian, willing to share the depths of ancient daoist (mixed with other stuff) wisdom. 

 

[Tombajo]

Actually you are mistaken about dream and lucidity. You must understand what is happening when you dream. The space itself on the otherside is reactive. It will create what ever you think of and it will develop intentions on it's own. This is a basic quality of space itself. Hence where our dreams come from.... You are on the otherside and don't realize it. The degree you remember, the degree you have control, and so on is directly correlated to the degree of your consciousness. 

 

To people talking shit about what I am saying. Do you really think I was taught this??? Have you heard this anywhere else??? Although the southern style is by far the most popular, because of Mr. Chia. No these are my discoveries do to my own experiments and so on. 

I am actually quoting Mr. Liping on his description of the three immortals. I did say I was ignorant of the system did I not?

 

Good luck......

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Tombajo

[Cleansox]

21 minutes ago, Tombajo said:

 

I am actually quoting Mr. Liping on his description of the three immortals. I did say I was ignorant of the system did I not?

 

Good luck......

 

Your posts are somewhat difficult to comprehend, is this then the description of a level or training method within the system he teaches? 

 

And if so, why compare that to a different system?

 

If you have read any books on the subject, you know that it is not the end teaching. 

And if you haven't, you have had an invitation in this thread to discuss this further. 

But you seem rather uninterested in developing this further. 

[Tombajo]

Yes, you are correct. I am not really into discussing linage and systematic processes that most people haven't got a clue, how to do it.    Now, if you want to talk to me about, what you have mastered and your own experiences, then that I am into. Actually that is why I am here. To get feed back on my new discoveries. But,  I don't feel like sharing anymore. Just being honest. 

 

I am super busy. So I was answering several peoples post, in the same one, so I apologize to my laziness. However, when people are rude and disrespectful; I don't really feel like sharing, what people pay me a shit load to teach them. Have a wonderful night.....